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Anyone tried berberine, cinnamon or fenugreek?
- Thread starter Vectian
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Docb
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- Type 2
Hi @Vectian. Questions about these things have been asked on the forum a number of times and as yet nobody has come back with any evidence that they work. For my own part, I am of the opinion that if they had any therapeutic value, they would be part of mainstream medication.
PS.... Made a curry this morning with cinnamon and fenugreek amongst the spices used. The lentils will give me a within limits rise in BG but as far as I am concerned the only thing the cinnamon and fenugreek will do is to make it yummy.
PS.... Made a curry this morning with cinnamon and fenugreek amongst the spices used. The lentils will give me a within limits rise in BG but as far as I am concerned the only thing the cinnamon and fenugreek will do is to make it yummy.
I searched for previous threads but there were hardly any replies from people who have actually tried these. You would have to take a fair amount over a period of time of course to see a result, one meal would not make any difference.
Dragon queen
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Berberine has been used for many years in Chinese medicine to treat blood problems. Takes upto 3 months to shows effect, not got the side effects of chemical drugs. Taken along side plenty of water and if you wish water tablets to flush sugars out. It needs time to work much like dr said to me about chemical drugs they gave me that creased me double. Did not have a problem taking Berberine.
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Pharmaceuticals have been taken from natural ingredients for many years, with the active compound isolated and extracted (hello insulin!), and in some cases purified and concentrated.
Since this has not happened with things like berberine and cinnamon (aside from the supplements market which does not have the same scrutiny for safety and effectiveness) it seems likely that research is not convincing enough to encourage the industry to spend the money isolating the active ingredient.
Plus, just because something is ‘natural’ doesn’t mean it is safe.
Diabetes UK has a page about supplements here with some additional information.
www.diabetes.org.uk
“Diabetes UK does not recommend the use of herbal remedies and supplements as there is not enough evidence that they are safe and effective for people with diabetes to use.”
Since this has not happened with things like berberine and cinnamon (aside from the supplements market which does not have the same scrutiny for safety and effectiveness) it seems likely that research is not convincing enough to encourage the industry to spend the money isolating the active ingredient.
Plus, just because something is ‘natural’ doesn’t mean it is safe.
Diabetes UK has a page about supplements here with some additional information.
Herbal and food supplements
Many people rely on traditional herbal and complementary remedies, which are said to help with blood glucose control. These remedies can be homemade or bought from local shops, and while they may have benefits, they should not be a substitute for your medications.
“Diabetes UK does not recommend the use of herbal remedies and supplements as there is not enough evidence that they are safe and effective for people with diabetes to use.”
Cinnamon was heavily promoted in the 1990s. I used it in my porridge but suspected it caused trips to the toilet. Then a study came out showing that you would need a bucketful a day to achieve the same beneficial results as the rats in the original research.
The Resveratrol in the skin of red grapes was the next fad for Type 2s. Yes it's an excellent anti-oxidant for Type 2s and Bordeaux was touted in the late 90s. But again you would need a crate of red wine a day to achieve the same level of resveratrol as the lab rats. Your liver might not survive despite the marginally increased level of heart protection.
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Were you on metformin before? How does berberine compare for lowering blood sugar? I have read about nasty side effects of metformin so not keen if there I another way
There is evidence for berberine though https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18442638/#:~:text=In study B, 48 adults,001).Pharmaceuticals have been taken from natural ingredients for many years, with the active compound isolated and extracted (hello insulin!), and in some cases purified and concentrated.
Since this has not happened with things like berberine and cinnamon (aside from the supplements market which does not have the same scrutiny for safety and effectiveness) it seems likely that research is not convincing enough to encourage the industry to spend the money isolating the active ingredient.
Plus, just because something is ‘natural’ doesn’t mean it is safe.
Diabetes UK has a page about supplements here with some additional information.
Herbal and food supplements
Many people rely on traditional herbal and complementary remedies, which are said to help with blood glucose control. These remedies can be homemade or bought from local shops, and while they may have benefits, they should not be a substitute for your medications.
“Diabetes UK does not recommend the use of herbal remedies and supplements as there is not enough evidence that they are safe and effective for people with diabetes to use.”
rebrascora
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There is another way. Dietary and lifestyle changes can be more powerful than even the most powerful diabetes medication (insulin) for many Type 2s.
Kernow-Debra
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I suffered horribly whilst on Metformin. Thankfully was only on it for 3 months after diagnosis.
I was a little worried that stopping Metformin would see my numbers rise, so I tried Berberine.
Was fine for 24 hours then all hell broke loose!
Searing stomach pains and then violent explosive toilet trips.
Metformin was tame in comparison.
The Berberine went in the bin and I’ve come to realise that what I eat has a far greater affect on my control than any supplement.
I was a little worried that stopping Metformin would see my numbers rise, so I tried Berberine.
Was fine for 24 hours then all hell broke loose!
Searing stomach pains and then violent explosive toilet trips.
Metformin was tame in comparison.
The Berberine went in the bin and I’ve come to realise that what I eat has a far greater affect on my control than any supplement.
I have been doing that, and gone from A1C of 97 6 weeks ago to around 42 with low carb, fasting and exercise on no meds. But I would like to get it a bit lower, so if berberine could help with that sounds preferable to metformin.
Many seem to report those kind of side effects from metformin. What else is there the excluding both of those? What dose of berberine were you taking?
Kernow-Debra
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I can’t remember precise dose. I purchased from British Supplements and was either one or 2 capsules a day.
What else is there? You’ve already discovered it,
just keep doing what your doing.
Your hba1c will continue to drop, congrats by the way.
My numbers were 87 on diagnosis. Metformin, low carb and exercise dropped to 38 after 3 months. All meds stopped, then 39 3 months later, latest is 37.
My tummy is very happy.
rebrascora
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Do you need to get it below 42? It may be that Metformin might not lower it further.... assuming your GP or nurse are happy to prescribe it at that level. I am Type 1 and am unlikely to ever get my HbA1c below 42 and I don't feel that that is a problem or that it will affect my future health in any way. In fact my change of lifestyle as a result of diabetes makes me healthier not less so. My best result is 45 and I hypo too much at that level and my consultant is happy with low 50s.
Have you also considered that there is an error factor in any test including HbA1c and your actual reading may be 41 or even possibly 40. Would you be happy with a result of 41? There is a large psychological aspect to managing diabetes. You have done fabulously well to reduce your levels to where they are not damaging your health.... Do you really need to get them lower by 1 or 2 mmols when you have already hit remission levels. Is it really important and if so, why?
It may also be that your blood composition won't allow you to lower your HbA1c any further or that your red blood cells are living slightly longer than the average and therefore collecting a tiny bit more glucose.
You have earned yourself a massive pat on the back. Why do you feel that you need to push your body just that bit further. The numbers are arbitrary to a large extent at that level.
Have you also considered that there is an error factor in any test including HbA1c and your actual reading may be 41 or even possibly 40. Would you be happy with a result of 41? There is a large psychological aspect to managing diabetes. You have done fabulously well to reduce your levels to where they are not damaging your health.... Do you really need to get them lower by 1 or 2 mmols when you have already hit remission levels. Is it really important and if so, why?
It may also be that your blood composition won't allow you to lower your HbA1c any further or that your red blood cells are living slightly longer than the average and therefore collecting a tiny bit more glucose.
You have earned yourself a massive pat on the back. Why do you feel that you need to push your body just that bit further. The numbers are arbitrary to a large extent at that level.
42 is on the borderline of prediabetes, so I would prefer to be comfortably in the non diabetic range as every gain helps reduce risk of complications. Although the 42 is based on CGM estimates (daily average BG of 6.2) which are not that accurate. I was 38 2 years ago. I don't know if I carry on it will continue to drop, it's only been 6 weeks since it was very high. I still haven't had the t1 or t2 test results back but seems like it can't be t1 with what is happening.
Yes I suppose it's only 6 weeks since it was very high, so can't expect to be back in normal ranges so soon. It feels a bit fragile now, like a stressful day at work and it stays higher all day like 7 or 8 (although never above 10) and very slow to come down. I do at least 10 mins of exercise after every meal which makes a big difference, again takes a lot longer to come down if I don't do that. Does your body get more resilient over time?
rebrascora
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We have a saying.... "Diabetes is a marathon not a sprint." It is about long term management, even if that management is keeping it in remission, not about getting to remission as quickly as possible and possibly burning yourself out in the process. It is also kinder on your body to bring it down more slowly and you can damage it by being too impatient. 6 weeks is very early days, so cut yourself some slack. Keep doing what you are doing if that is getting good results and be patient.
Leadinglights
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- Type 2
Your approach needs to be one that is enjoyable otherwise it will not be sustainable and it has to be a new way of eating for life.
It is no good doing something for a few weeks or months, getting to where you want to be and then going back to what you were dong before which led to the high blood glucose. You have done really well in a short time and your body has to adjust so be patient and keep doing what you are and you will get there.
I agree that being a bit below the prediabetes threshold is more comforting but the definition of remission seems to be below 48mmol/mol without medication for 3 months. So you are well within that.
It is no good doing something for a few weeks or months, getting to where you want to be and then going back to what you were dong before which led to the high blood glucose. You have done really well in a short time and your body has to adjust so be patient and keep doing what you are and you will get there.
I agree that being a bit below the prediabetes threshold is more comforting but the definition of remission seems to be below 48mmol/mol without medication for 3 months. So you are well within that.
I had a taste of what it's like to be t1, they didn’t know if it was t1 or 2 as I'm not overweight (still don't officially know) so was put on insulin just in case. Took it for 4 weeks and have never felt so ill in my life, and becoming more and more insulin resistant. Last 2 weeks stopped taking it and much better, BG better as well. Probably because I didn't need it. But I have a new found respect and understanding of what t1s go through and how difficult everything becomes! Other people don't really have a clue what it involves.
I have kind of been here before, I was prediabetic in 2016 although nothing like as bad as this time (fasting 6.7) and reversed it back then and lost 2 stone. I have kept the weight off ever since, and had a1cs in the normal range for 5 years after but not really looking after the diet, so really not diabetic for that time. Over the last 2 years it has gone from 38 to 97, still don't know why but this has been a real wake up call that changes have to stay this time!
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