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any HR people on here

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.

bev

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Parent of person with diabetes
Hi all,
My daughter has just had the result of her 'grievance proceedure' from work - they upheld all but one of her complaints. And now she has to go back working with the bully AND this bully will be giving a review in 4 weeks time! Are there any HR people who could tell me if what they are doing is legal - my daughter is distraight at the thought of working with this woman again as she is happy in her new team and doesnt want to move. Thanks. Bev
 
Glad most of the complaints were upheld, not so good your daughter has to go back to the bully. Is she in the union and can they help?
 
Can't help you with this one I'm afraid. If the greivances were upheld, I take it they were against this bully, why the hell are they putting her back in the lion's den. Can she appeal that with them? It is ludicrous. 😡
 
Hi Bev,

Sorry to hear your daughter is has had such a bad time about it.

I work and have worked closely with the HR departments in current and past jobs.

It might be a good idea for your daughter to write to her comany thanking them for there support and upholding most of the grievences, but stating however she does not feel compfortable with them moving her back to work with the person who the grievence was with and ask them if they will consider her staying with the team she is in now. Also she should state that if she has to go back to her old team can she have a written assurance that the person doing the bullying will not continue and be monitored to ensure that she does not again.

The company will have to respond back to her in writing and if they will not re consider or give any assurances, the best bet is to consult a solicitor on where she stands.

It all gets very complicated where there are grievences, but put something in writing to them to make it official you are still not happy with the situation

If I can help any further PM me.
 
Hi D,
Thanks so much for that information. Daughter is ringing tonight - so i will tell her what you have said. I cant believe they would want to put two people together after this sort of thing - its a no win situation all round! Thanks again - very kind of you.🙂Bev
 
No Worries Bev.

Unfortunatly sometime companies come up with solutions which are unacceptable. They need to re think there suggestions.

Get your daughter to write, keep everything professional and very polite and see how it goes - if your really nice and then they still won't accomodate, you will know you have done everything right and by the book.

A good HR department looks at everything from the company point of view and the employee point of view and then should find a happy medium.

I've dealt with grievences in the past against some nasty people and I know how tricky it can be.

Good luck to your daughty and like I said before Pm me if you need any further help x
 
I think that companies in the UK have to comply with the ACAS regulations, these two links will give you some information

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1670

and

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=782

I cannot understand how they are allowing your daughter to be put into this position. Having the bully review your daughter is ridiculous. Firstly they are not impartial and secondly your daughter has been working elsewhere.

If at all possible your daughter needs to get the decision in writing - it will form a record if she needs it at a future date. I was in a similar position and it was a struggle to get a written record. Its particularly important if the process was considered informal as the records may get filed in the bin..... It was known that my bully had been reported to HR several times but as everything had been informal there were no records, so it always looked like a first occurrance.

I suggest that your daughter appeal the decision that she has to resume working with the bully and to say why. I would do this by e-mail to whoever was chairing the grievance and would also send a blind copy to my home e-mail account. Her union should be able to assist with this.

It might also be an idea that your daughter talks things over with her GP - so they are aware of the situation. They may be able to provide some advice and at least it will be recorded. It is possible with your daughter's Dr to write to the company to express concern but in my experiance they will avoid this like the plague and try and put the responsibility back on the employer's occ health dept.

Your daughter should check to see if there is an Employee Assistance Programme that she can use.

I hope this helps.
 
Hi Bev
Here is some info for you, hope it helps.

If the employee intends to appeal, s/he must inform her/his employer of her/his wish to do so. Although there is no requirement to put this request in writing, it is advisable to do so as a matter of good practice, so that the employee has a record of it. The employee must make her/his request for an appeal within a reasonable time of receiving the employer?s decision.The employer must then invite the employee to attend a further meeting where the employee?s appeal against the employer?s decision can be heard. If possible, a more senior manager should attend the appeal meeting.
The employee can choose to be accompanied to the meeting and/or the appeal meeting. Her/his companion may be either a colleague or a trade union representative It is the sole right of the employee concerned to choose who the companion will be. This right to be accompanied applies to any grievance meeting, not just to meetings held under the statutory procedure.
?a colleague, s/he has the right to paid time off during working hours to attend the meeting
?a trade union officer with the same employer as the employee, s/he has the right to paid time off for trade union duties.
If the employer does not allow the employee to be accompanied by a colleague or trade union representative, it could be argued that this is a breach of the statutory procedure and the employee should not be expected to comply with the rest of the procedure. However, employees should be advised to continue to follow the grievance procedure if at all possible. Otherwise, the employee risks a tribunal finding that it is her/his fault that the procedure has broken down, resulting in a reduction of any tribunal award. If the employee makes a claim about her/his grievance to a tribunal, s/he can also make a claim that the employer has breached the grievance procedure, under section 10 of the Employment Relations Act 1999, for failing to allow her/him to be accompanied at the hearing. This claim about breach of procedure can only be made in addition to some other claim the employee is making, for example, for unpaid holiday pay.
 
Thanks all,

Daughter rang last night and said HR have told her she has no option as all the teams have been re-arranged in the light of her grievance proceedure and the 'bully' has been sent off for more training i.e.people skills and managing people etc.. So the fact that they are sending this person for extra training shows that they think she hasnt dealt very fairly with my daughter!

HR also apologised to daughter and said they felt embarrased that she had been subject to some of the 'bully's' behaviour!

They said they will be closely monitoring how she deals with things and daughter still has to have the review in 4 weeks time by bully.

But, my daughter spotted a list of the new teams and the 'bully's' name wasnt on it - so she is thinking that perhaps this person is being moved on or something and they just cant say anything as its all top secret.:confused:

However, I have advised her to get out of there asap. This is not a small business - its a multi-national company she works for on the high street and it shocks me that they are allowed to treat people this way!😱

Thanks for all the replies - all very much appreciated and passed on to my daughter who also says thankyou.🙂Bev x
 
Good luck for your daughter Bev. I think she has handled it very well. A change of job would be good for her and there are a lot of good employers out there, so good luck for all her endeavours.
 
hi my sister she had to do that with some of her collegue she is also been investigated (for 1 year now )SHE WORK FOR THE NHS!!! and now she has a private sollicitor because the union can mediate on her behalf but they cannot speak for her UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!
 
How a company and individuals assess employment law is very often different to how a court would view such a case.

For the company to fire a manager of 'x' years service would take a time and cost money, to ease a junior out and even pay them off to avoid constructive dismissal is often the easiest and cheapest option.

Given in the new structure the managers name doesn't occur could mean the manager has been given a verbal, or perhaps written warning, the company then needs to ensure they have covered their back by ensuring this employee receives their due support as a manager, additional training in this case.

However, given the landscape of the future group structure, it could be reasonable to expect the company doesn't expect the manager to survive in their role and for the first written warning, and the subsequent training to result in their dropping back into their old ways. Perhaps at review time, perhaps expecting more staff to now come forward and complain about her.

I think your daughter is correct in writing to acknowledge the findings of the company, to formally ask why the company feel it is fair to expect her to return to work under this tyrant of a manager and why they should use your daughter to establish if her manager has learnt anything from her training. Surely the counter argument to this being perhaps personal is that she doesn't treat other members of her team in the same way, or does she?

In the letter I would also suggest your daughter requests that someone from HR sits in on the appraisal and that there is a one to one meeting following the appraisal with someone from HR. Given that this has all happened of late and they are appraising her position given the findings of this report staggers me to be honest, considering your daughter has been out of the management of this person for a reasonable period of time, is she actually the right person to appraise her?

If they insist on this manager doing the appraisal and to having someone from HR in on the appraisal, I think given the circumstances your daughter is within her rights to have someone with her at this appraisal. The role of this person is purely to support, not to advise, as it wouldn't be a formal disciplinary procedure, but, I would suggest against having a co-worker in the appraisal.

Should the request of others being there be ignored, then I'd suggest your daughter if possible attends, perhaps uses a Dictaphone to record the conversation and notes any key areas of concern back to HR, if need be re-opening the formal complaint against her manager if she feels intimidated in any way, of course the need to detach the element of shock from this appraisal needs to be taken into account and within reason your daughter needs to fully co-operate with the appraisal and not provoke in any way, e.g. no reference to the grievance procedure.

If that is raised, she should make it clear she is not prepared to discuss it, and if the manager touches on this area again your daughter will consider the appraisal to be completed and her next destination will be to 'x' in HR to formally complain about her manager again.

Unfortunately the bigger a company, typically the more they hope they can brow beat staff, if they get caught twisting or breaking the law, these are the organisations that can afford to pay out thousands of pounds in compensation, smaller firms have to tread carefully, as payouts are very hard to recover from.

I wish her well!
 
Update

Hi all,

Well thought I would give you all an update - its been a long time since this happened.🙂

My daughter left the Company and her confidence was at an all-time low. However - she got an internship at an advertising Company and was eventually given a full-time job as they were impressed with her work (even though she had no qualifications for this particular role.) Last week the MD told her she had been promoted to Assistant Production Manager and asked her would she be interested in becoming a Director!:DNot bad for someone who was so bullied by her boss that she nearly had a breakdown. My daughter is now on nearly double the salary and is a highly respected member of the Company she works for and her confidence is now at an all-time high. It just shows you how much damage bullying can do but also how if you have right on your side things will eventually come good.:DBev:D
 
Bev this is brilliant news and your duaghter has proved just how brilliant she is.
 
That's fantastic news Bev so pleased for you and your daughter. Many congratulations to your daughter that is some achievement.
 
Terrific news Bev! Wow, well done to your daughter and wishing her every success for the future. You must be very proud 🙂
 
Terrific news Bev! Wow, well done to your daughter and wishing her every success for the future. You must be very proud 🙂

Hi Northerner,

Yes I am proud - but more than anything I feel that my daughter has gained a lot from her experience and put it to good use. A young girl started at daughters workplace and eventually opened up and explained she had been bullied by her old boss and was extremely timid and frightened if she got anything wrong.:( My daughter has taken her under her wing and does everything she can to help build up her confidence and told me she wont have anyone working with her who is frightened of coming into work as she remembers how that felt. The girl is now much happier and extremely good at her job and that has to be a positive. So something good came of all of this - even though it was traumatic for my daughter to have to go through - she has great insight into the effects of bullying and no-one who works with her will ever be made to feel the way she did.:DBev
 
Bev I'm so pleased you returned to this thread with happy news x good luck to your daughter
 
Hi Northerner,

Yes I am proud - but more than anything I feel that my daughter has gained a lot from her experience and put it to good use. A young girl started at daughters workplace and eventually opened up and explained she had been bullied by her old boss and was extremely timid and frightened if she got anything wrong.:( My daughter has taken her under her wing and does everything she can to help build up her confidence and told me she wont have anyone working with her who is frightened of coming into work as she remembers how that felt. The girl is now much happier and extremely good at her job and that has to be a positive. So something good came of all of this - even though it was traumatic for my daughter to have to go through - she has great insight into the effects of bullying and no-one who works with her will ever be made to feel the way she did.:DBev

I am sympathetic towards anyone who has been bullied for any reason, but the best people to understand are people who have been there. I wouldn't wish anyone such a terrible experience, but it seems to have made your daughter stronger and more understanding and it is of great credit to her as a person.
 
Good for her! 🙂 It must have transformed that young girl's life having the good fortune to encounter your daughter. And all this makes an even bigger fool of the woman who was the bully.
 
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