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Please Remember: Members are only permitted to share their own experiences. Members are not qualified to give medical advice. Additionally, everyone manages their health differently. Please be respectful of other people's opinions about their own diabetes management.
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Bubbsie
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Same here Nigel...mine 7.4 at bedtime...and this morning exactly the same as yours...9.2...puzzled...
Greyhound Gal
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
Hi. I asked exactly the same question yesterday! If you look at the thread re morning avareges on the final couple of pages there are good explanation from forum members re 'the dawn phenomenon', and a really good link.
O
Owen
Guest
Your liver is producing glucose ready for you to wake up and prepare you for the day. What a helpful little chap.
Bubbsie
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Hi Nigel...I do get some joint pain...one of the less common side effects of my taking Metformin...however since you are type1 not applicable...others will no doubt be along to advise...however having avoided the doctor for years and years and ending up with diabetes DX...which I believe I had for some time before that... I am now a firm believer in contacting them if any problems arise...might be wise to call them to put your mind at rest...hope the day improves for you...
Bubbsie
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 2
Indeed Owen...bless him...
DeusXM
Well-Known Member
- Relationship to Diabetes
- Type 1
Your blood sugar isn't just affected by what you eat and drink. Here's what is sort of becoming my standard guide for this question:
Dawn phenomenon
What is it?
Before waking, your body starts pumping out glucose and hormones that increase insulin resistance, which causes your blood sugar to raise.
How do I know if it's this?
Set your alarm to go off a couple of hours before you'd usually wake, and test. If your reading at this time is normal and your morning reading is high, it's probably dawn phenomenon
How do I fix it?
With difficulty. Some options include eating a higher protein meal before bed, which gives your body the fuel it'll need in advance of the morning. You can also try eating a larger breakfast in the morning to train your body to expect a food hit, so it doesn't start dumping sugar. Or you can look at altering your basal timings.
Somogyi effect
What is it?
When you have a hypo in your sleep and don't wake up, it's believed your liver starts pumping out glucose to treat the hypo - which then causes higher blood sugar levels in the morning.
How do I know if it's this?
Set your alarm to wake you at something like 2am or 3am and then test. If your reading is sailing pretty close to hypo territory, it may be this what's happening. Also, those who believe this happens to them also seem wake up with hangover-like symptoms - very tired, headachey etc.
How do I fix it?
Decrease your basal. You shouldn't take preventative action by eating and then go to bed with higher numbers - it'll stop the hypos but it'll just make you fat and then in 10 years time you'll have a foot fall off.
Delayed dinners
What is it?
Protein takes 4-6 hours to start breaking down into glucose but it can be quite significant. A high protein meal can cause your blood sugar to go up quite a lot, but quite late on.
How do I know if it's this?
Test before your evening meal, two hours after, and 4-6 hours after. If your latest reading seems unusually high, it's probably the protein.
How do I fix it?
Either change the proportions of your meal, or increase your basal. Changing the proportions is probably better.
Insufficient basal
What is it?
Your liver will slowly output glucose through the night. If you don't have enough insulin in your system, this will raise your blood sugar.
How do I know if it's this?
Test before going to bed, test again during the night (maybe once or twice) and then test again in the morning. If you see the readings consistently increase throughout the night, you probably don't have enough basal insulin.
How do I fix it?
Adjust your basal insulin until your readings look better.
'Feet on the floor'
What is it?
After you wake, your liver starts pumping out glucose. It's similar in many respects to dawn phenomenon but happens AFTER you get up and out of bed, not before
How do I know if it's this?
This one's easy-ish to catch, if you are confident that your basal is pretty much on point for the day. You do a reading the moment you get up. Then go about your usual routine (bet it doesn't involve breakfast, right?) and test at 30 minutes and one hour after getting up. If your blood sugar is clearly rocketing up, you've got 'feet on the floor'. You might be astonished at how quick/significant this can be - I personally have noticed my BG go up by as much as 3mmol/l in 15 minutes. It also won't necessarily happen at the same time every day - for instance, if you usually get up at 7am on weekdays, you might be high by 8am, but this won't happen on weekends when you get up later. The point is, your body does it when you get up, not according to what time it thinks it is!
How do I fix it?
Two options here. One is if you're not eating breakfast, eat something - basically exactly as you'd fix dawn phenomenon. You can retrain your body.
It is also possible that the readings you had are technically the same. Blood sugar meters are not very accurate - by law, they are allowed be as much as 15% out either way, so a reading of 8 could easily be a 'real' 8.5 and a reading of 9.2 could also easily be a 'real' 8.5.
As for joint pain in your feet, this could be a variety of things, unrelated to diabetes. However I would say that any ongoing aches and pains in your extremities with no immediately obvious causes warrant a visit to a doctor. One of the long-term complications of regular high blood sugars is diabetic neuropathy, which typically manifests itself as a burning/tingling pain in the hands and feet. So best to see a doctor to see if it's this, or to see if there's another cause. The bottom line is, no, pain is not normal for anyone, diabetic or not, and so you should have it investigated.
Dawn phenomenon
What is it?
Before waking, your body starts pumping out glucose and hormones that increase insulin resistance, which causes your blood sugar to raise.
How do I know if it's this?
Set your alarm to go off a couple of hours before you'd usually wake, and test. If your reading at this time is normal and your morning reading is high, it's probably dawn phenomenon
How do I fix it?
With difficulty. Some options include eating a higher protein meal before bed, which gives your body the fuel it'll need in advance of the morning. You can also try eating a larger breakfast in the morning to train your body to expect a food hit, so it doesn't start dumping sugar. Or you can look at altering your basal timings.
Somogyi effect
What is it?
When you have a hypo in your sleep and don't wake up, it's believed your liver starts pumping out glucose to treat the hypo - which then causes higher blood sugar levels in the morning.
How do I know if it's this?
Set your alarm to wake you at something like 2am or 3am and then test. If your reading is sailing pretty close to hypo territory, it may be this what's happening. Also, those who believe this happens to them also seem wake up with hangover-like symptoms - very tired, headachey etc.
How do I fix it?
Decrease your basal. You shouldn't take preventative action by eating and then go to bed with higher numbers - it'll stop the hypos but it'll just make you fat and then in 10 years time you'll have a foot fall off.
Delayed dinners
What is it?
Protein takes 4-6 hours to start breaking down into glucose but it can be quite significant. A high protein meal can cause your blood sugar to go up quite a lot, but quite late on.
How do I know if it's this?
Test before your evening meal, two hours after, and 4-6 hours after. If your latest reading seems unusually high, it's probably the protein.
How do I fix it?
Either change the proportions of your meal, or increase your basal. Changing the proportions is probably better.
Insufficient basal
What is it?
Your liver will slowly output glucose through the night. If you don't have enough insulin in your system, this will raise your blood sugar.
How do I know if it's this?
Test before going to bed, test again during the night (maybe once or twice) and then test again in the morning. If you see the readings consistently increase throughout the night, you probably don't have enough basal insulin.
How do I fix it?
Adjust your basal insulin until your readings look better.
'Feet on the floor'
What is it?
After you wake, your liver starts pumping out glucose. It's similar in many respects to dawn phenomenon but happens AFTER you get up and out of bed, not before
How do I know if it's this?
This one's easy-ish to catch, if you are confident that your basal is pretty much on point for the day. You do a reading the moment you get up. Then go about your usual routine (bet it doesn't involve breakfast, right?) and test at 30 minutes and one hour after getting up. If your blood sugar is clearly rocketing up, you've got 'feet on the floor'. You might be astonished at how quick/significant this can be - I personally have noticed my BG go up by as much as 3mmol/l in 15 minutes. It also won't necessarily happen at the same time every day - for instance, if you usually get up at 7am on weekdays, you might be high by 8am, but this won't happen on weekends when you get up later. The point is, your body does it when you get up, not according to what time it thinks it is!
How do I fix it?
Two options here. One is if you're not eating breakfast, eat something - basically exactly as you'd fix dawn phenomenon. You can retrain your body.
It is also possible that the readings you had are technically the same. Blood sugar meters are not very accurate - by law, they are allowed be as much as 15% out either way, so a reading of 8 could easily be a 'real' 8.5 and a reading of 9.2 could also easily be a 'real' 8.5.
As for joint pain in your feet, this could be a variety of things, unrelated to diabetes. However I would say that any ongoing aches and pains in your extremities with no immediately obvious causes warrant a visit to a doctor. One of the long-term complications of regular high blood sugars is diabetic neuropathy, which typically manifests itself as a burning/tingling pain in the hands and feet. So best to see a doctor to see if it's this, or to see if there's another cause. The bottom line is, no, pain is not normal for anyone, diabetic or not, and so you should have it investigated.
D
Diabeticliberty
Guest
With respect your liver cannot 'produce' glucose it can only release glycogen that it has processed from the carbohydrates or glucose that we have previously ingested.
O
Owen
Guest
Gluconeogenesis. During short-term fasting periods, the liver produces and releases glucose mainly through glycogenolysis. During prolonged fasting, glycogen is depleted, and hepatocytes synthesize glucose through gluconeogenesis using lactate, pyruvate, glycerol, and amino acids
D
Diabeticliberty
Guest
Sorry if my reply puts your nose out of joint. It was never my intention to do so and I apologise without reservation if I have. I don't feel however that we can have newly diagnosed forum members coming here seeking information and going away misinformed. If I had posted something that was factually incorrect I would expect and welcome correction by anybody else. I don't have a medical degree nor am I attempting to have any medical experience whatsoever 🙂
O
Owen
Guest
A bit sensitive at the moment, sorry. I did delete it, but it is factually not incorrect. Again sorry. I have a lot of pain and should not have retorted.
D
Diabeticliberty
Guest
Hey don't be daft its really not a problem to me. We all get a bit frazzled at times and I did not take offence from your reply. The main thing is that I dearly hope that whatever pain you are going through gets sorted and soon 🙂
Take care of yourself,
Geoff
O
Owen
Guest
Two years so far, but today is a bad one. Just got some codeine, meloxicam, paracetamol down me, so should should ease soon.
Owen
I was just talking to my wife recently about this subject whilst out for a walk. We couldn't quite agree until eventually we remembered (in a roundabout sort of way) that glycogen is 'stored' in the liver and glucose is released via the action of glucagon (released by alpha cells in the pancreas apparently, as opposed to the beta cells which release insulin) and the process of gluconeogenesis.
It's all very interesting stuff and much more complicated that that, I think!
Andy 🙂
It's all very interesting stuff and much more complicated that that, I think!
Andy 🙂
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