A confused type 2 diabetic

[Gumflumph]

My name is John has-been diagnosed with type 2 6yrs ago , now with the natural progression of type 2 have been introduced to insulin
Now feel like sh*t reading gone up from 12 to 17.5 only been on insulin for 2 days perhaps expecting to much to soon , looking for some advice please surley this insulin should not make me feel sh#* ? My insulin is called humulin I have been I jecting on Mark 6 but going to up to 8 as previous injections made no improvement, any advice would be appreciated thank you john

 

[ianf0ster]

My name is John has-been diagnosed with type 2 6yrs ago , now with the natural progression of type 2 have been introduced to insulin
Now feel like **** reading gone up from 12 to 17.5 only been on insulin for 2 days perhaps expecting to much to soon , looking for some advice please surley this insulin should not make me feel **** ? My insulin is called humulin I have been I jecting on Mark 6 but going to up to 8 as previous injections made no improvement, any advice would be appreciated thank you john

Hi John. Sorry to hear your Type 2 has progressed. I suppose back then very few people realised that Type 2 can be put into remission (non-diabetic blood sugar levels) just by changing the way we eat. So there is no such thing as a Type 2 natural progression.

On the bright side, it is still possible to either put it into remission or at least reduce your medication (perhaps come off insulin altogether) by carefully, slowly reducing the amount of the particular carbohydrates which affect you the most (both starches and sugars - but there is no set diet since we are all different).

I will leave it to those expert on insulin to respond to your main query.

 

[Gumflumph]

Hi Ian thanks for the reply , the diabetic doctor was the one who said it's the type 2 progression ? Now confused,
When first diagnosed I was not looking after myself I'm now 60yrs young I was nearly 17 and half stone and 5ft 10 tall
I now way 12stone 2llb through cutting out sugar sweets etc but still can't get blood sugars below 12 so I not sure what to do , I must admit I was totally neglected by my surgery in Grays essex , and now just been put on insulin Thursday this week and told my next appointment is in 4 months! How can this be right ? Don't the doctor want to know how the new medication is working or not as the case maybe ? It beggers belief but my experience with diabetes over the past 8yrs is more more more medication every time I see the doctor or nurse 2hich was 3 times in 4yrs believe it or not they just wanted to give you more and more medication. This condition I did not ask for, most of my life I was as fit as a butchers dog x professional footballer stopped playing at 40yrs old semi pro , it just seems that no one really gives a sh*& and not got the time to speak and educate us about battling this disease known as the silent assassin, was thinking of going to see a private doctor concerning my condition and may just find out the best not the cheapest way what we are prescribed
To win this battle with diabetes thanks for reading this people all comments welcome ps as anyone gone private concerning there diabetes I wonder ?

 

[Leadinglights]

Hi Ian thanks for the reply , the diabetic doctor was the one who said it's the type 2 progression ? Now confused,
When first diagnosed I was not looking after myself I'm now 60yrs young I was nearly 17 and half stone and 5ft 10 tall
I now way 12stone 2llb through cutting out sugar sweets etc but still can't get blood sugars below 12 so I not sure what to do , I must admit I was totally neglected by my surgery in Grays essex , and now just been put on insulin Thursday this week and told my next appointment is in 4 months! How can this be right ? Don't the doctor want to know how the new medication is working or not as the case maybe ? It beggers belief but my experience with diabetes over the past 8yrs is more more more medication every time I see the doctor or nurse 2hich was 3 times in 4yrs believe it or not they just wanted to give you more and more medication. This condition I did not ask for, most of my life I was as fit as a butchers dog x professional footballer stopped playing at 40yrs old semi pro , it just seems that no one really gives a **** and not got the time to speak and educate us about battling this disease known as the silent assassin, was thinking of going to see a private doctor concerning my condition and may just find out the best not the cheapest way what we are prescribed
To win this battle with diabetes thanks for reading this people all comments welcome ps as anyone gone private concerning there diabetes I wonder ?

You are not the only one to feel that way but sadly people are expected to become their own experts and have to rely on sites like this for advice and help.
You mention cutting out sugar, sweets etc but what is the etc.
It is all carbohydrates which convert to glucose so if you haven't reduced your intake of things like potatoes, bread, rice, pasta, cereals, tropical fruits, pastry then that could be where your problem lies. Losing the weight does help, medication will help but dietary changes are still needed.
What medication have you been taking as there are lots of options that are usually used before insulin and most certainly you should expect support from your surgery following starting on new medication.
Before considering going private you could ask for referral to a specialist diabetic clinic.
You should perhaps take some time to review you diet by keeping a food diary with everything you eat and drink with an estimate of the TOTAL carbohydrates so you can see if this is where the problem lies.
A guide on the amount of carbs if following a low carb regime is 130g per day. Where you are in relation to that may give you an idea if you are eating too many carbs.

I don't know which Health Trust covers your area but there is a specialist Diabetic clinic at Queen's Hospital Romford which is not too far from Grays. I think there is someone else on here from there as well so they may be able to say how they access the specialist facilities.

 

[Drummer]

It might be a far cheaper option to look for a copy of Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution from around 2003.
It explains eating low carb, gives meal plans and recipes, and although it is not intended for type 2 diabetics, he mentions it a few times, and that it was dealt with by eating low carb.
It would not be wise, in your situation for you to do Atkins way of eating as described, you could find that the insulin starts to work rather suddenly and that could be very dangerous. Maybe just read the book evaluate your diet and only then start to make small changes - very small changes, working backwards along the carbohydrate ladder.
Quite a few people have come off all medication by eating low carb - and maintain normal blood glucose levels - but you have been just left for so long you really have got a long way to come back.
Type 2 doesn't progress if understood and treated accordingly at least, it hasn't for me and I was diagnosed late 2016 and told I was 'a very bad diabetic' but I went low carb from that moment and it was fixed by mid 2017.
If you have been tested for insulin production and it is low then you might need to continue to use it - your pancreas has probably been working overtime for ages, but we do not need to eat carbs, and if our ability to cope with them is compromised then reducing them is the logical place to start - I can't emphasise too strongly though that insulin should be treated with respect and changes to diet done very gradually. It would be preferable to have the help of your GP or practice diabetes specialist nurse, but you seem to be on your own - apart from the people here, of course.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi and welcome from me too.

Really sorry that you have had such poor support and especially after being started on insulin which can be quite daunting. The diabetes nurse should be liaising with you during this initial period to discuss your readings and adjust your doses. Are you taking the Humulin twice a day and is it Humulin I as there is also Humulin S and Humulin M1, M2 and M3 I believe.

The problem with diabetes is that it is very individual and short of living with you and seeing what you eat and drink at each meal and how much or little exercise you do it is quite difficult for doctors to advise you. Added to that the NHS dietary advice does not go far enough to help Type 2 diabetics. It is stuck in the past with the "Eatwell Plate".
There are also many people who are not motivated to change the way they eat or take more exercise. They just assume that the medication they are given will do the trick and deal with their diabetes which is a long way from the truth. Consequently doctors see the majority of their patients with diabetes need progressively stronger medication until they eventually go onto insulin. It is however possible for many people to turn back the tide with the right advice but that advice is about learning how to manage your own diabetes. It is about getting a Blood Glucose meter and seeing how your body responds to different foods and adjusting what you eat to what the meter shows you your body can cope with.
Most people here on the forum who are successful in managing their diabetes and in many cases pushing it into remission, use this method of testing just before each meal and then 2 hours afterwards and using that info to tailor their diet to their body and their tastes. So if that meal spikes their BG levels more than 2-3 mmols, then there were too many carbs in that meal and they need to reduce the portion size for next time they have it. Keeping a food diary alongside your readings will enable you to see what works for you and what doesn't and which carbs your body can cope with and which are best avoided and this is where it becomes very individual. You have to become your own expert in your own diabetes because you live with it day by day and meal by meal. For me bread is my nemesis and whilst occasionally I will have a slice or two (maybe just once or twice a year these days) it is absolutely not worth the BG upheaval. I also avoid pasta and wholegrains but occasionally have a couple of small potatoes or sweet potato or a dessert spoon of rice. Mostly I avoid all high carb foods. That may seem quite radical but it is actually quite enjoyable once you get the hang of it.

I very much doubt you will get any more sense from a private consultation. They might bamboozle you with terminology and suggest different medication or insulin but they can't grasp the nature of your diabetes in just one short consultation, so in my opinion you would be wasting your money.

I am guessing you will have been allocated a limited number of test strips with your BG meter, so it might be wise to invest in one of your own that you can do a lot more intensive testing so that you can learn rather than just react to your levels.
If you are interested in this approach then please ask as we can advise reliable and economical test kits for self funding.... the cost with testing is in the test strips so it may well be cheaper to buy a new meter than buy extra test strips for the one you have been supplied with. Test strip prices can vary hugely and they are individual to each meter so cannot be used in other meters.

Anyway, hope I haven't overwhelmed you with too much info. Anything you don't understand please ask and if you have concerns about your insulin be persistent with the GP or nurse. You should not be abandoned with what is potentially a life threatening medication without sufficient support.

Have you been advised about "hypos" and what to look out for and how to treat one if you get one and to always carry your test kit and hypo treatment around with you and keep it by the bed at night?
If you drive, have you notified DVLA and your insurance and are you aware of the rules around insulin use and driving?

 

[Windy]

Hi, there's some stuff on remission as mentioned by @ianf0ster here and here if you want to read more about it. My GP and nurse said nothing about it to me, but I've been eating a low carb, low calorie diet in the hope that it works for me. There's no guarantees of course, but I'd rather give it a go than not.
Best wishes, Sarah

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Welcome to the forum @Gumflumph

Sorry to hear about the lack of information and support you’ve been receiving. Especially shocking as you are starting insulin!

Hopefully the shared experiences of other forum members will be giving you some ideas and suggestions, and you’ll feel able to call on the ‘hive mind’ of the forum with any questions as they arise.

We have centuries of lived diabetes experience, and lots of friendly folks who’d be happy to offer a few thoughts based on their own experiences.

Hopefully as your BG levels gradually reduce, and your insulin gets balanced more with what your body needs, you should begin to feel much better.

Let us know how you get on. 🙂

 

[Gumflumph]

Hi and welcome from me too.

Really sorry that you have had such poor support and especially after being started on insulin which can be quite daunting. The diabetes nurse should be liaising with you during this initial period to discuss your readings and adjust your doses. Are you taking the Humulin twice a day and is it Humulin I as there is also Humulin S and Humulin M1, M2 and M3 I believe.

The problem with diabetes is that it is very individual and short of living with you and seeing what you eat and drink at each meal and how much or little exercise you do it is quite difficult for doctors to advise you. Added to that the NHS dietary advice does not go far enough to help Type 2 diabetics. It is stuck in the past with the "Eatwell Plate".
There are also many people who are not motivated to change the way they eat or take more exercise. They just assume that the medication they are given will do the trick and deal with their diabetes which is a long way from the truth. Consequently doctors see the majority of their patients with diabetes need progressively stronger medication until they eventually go onto insulin. It is however possible for many people to turn back the tide with the right advice but that advice is about learning how to manage your own diabetes. It is about getting a Blood Glucose meter and seeing how your body responds to different foods and adjusting what you eat to what the meter shows you your body can cope with.
Most people here on the forum who are successful in managing their diabetes and in many cases pushing it into remission, use this method of testing just before each meal and then 2 hours afterwards and using that info to tailor their diet to their body and their tastes. So if that meal spikes their BG levels more than 2-3 mmols, then there were too many carbs in that meal and they need to reduce the portion size for next time they have it. Keeping a food diary alongside your readings will enable you to see what works for you and what doesn't and which carbs your body can cope with and which are best avoided and this is where it becomes very individual. You have to become your own expert in your own diabetes because you live with it day by day and meal by meal. For me bread is my nemesis and whilst occasionally I will have a slice or two (maybe just once or twice a year these days) it is absolutely not worth the BG upheaval. I also avoid pasta and wholegrains but occasionally have a couple of small potatoes or sweet potato or a dessert spoon of rice. Mostly I avoid all high carb foods. That may seem quite radical but it is actually quite enjoyable once you get the hang of it.

I very much doubt you will get any more sense from a private consultation. They might bamboozle you with terminology and suggest different medication or insulin but they can't grasp the nature of your diabetes in just one short consultation, so in my opinion you would be wasting your money.

I am guessing you will have been allocated a limited number of test strips with your BG meter, so it might be wise to invest in one of your own that you can do a lot more intensive testing so that you can learn rather than just react to your levels.
If you are interested in this approach then please ask as we can advise reliable and economical test kits for self funding.... the cost with testing is in the test strips so it may well be cheaper to buy a new meter than buy extra test strips for the one you have been supplied with. Test strip prices can vary hugely and they are individual to each meter so cannot be used in other meters.

Anyway, hope I haven't overwhelmed you with too much info. Anything you don't understand please ask and if you have concerns about your insulin be persistent with the GP or nurse. You should not be abandoned with what is potentially a life threatening medication without sufficient support.

Have you been advised about "hypos" and what to look out for and how to treat one if you get one and to always carry your test kit and hypo treatment around with you and keep it by the bed at night?
If you drive, have you notified DVLA and your insurance and are you aware of the rules around insulin use and driving?

 

[Gumflumph]

Hi and welcome from me too.

Really sorry that you have had such poor support and especially after being started on insulin which can be quite daunting. The diabetes nurse should be liaising with you during this initial period to discuss your readings and adjust your doses. Are you taking the Humulin twice a day and is it Humulin I as there is also Humulin S and Humulin M1, M2 and M3 I believe.

The problem with diabetes is that it is very individual and short of living with you and seeing what you eat and drink at each meal and how much or little exercise you do it is quite difficult for doctors to advise you. Added to that the NHS dietary advice does not go far enough to help Type 2 diabetics. It is stuck in the past with the "Eatwell Plate".
There are also many people who are not motivated to change the way they eat or take more exercise. They just assume that the medication they are given will do the trick and deal with their diabetes which is a long way from the truth. Consequently doctors see the majority of their patients with diabetes need progressively stronger medication until they eventually go onto insulin. It is however possible for many people to turn back the tide with the right advice but that advice is about learning how to manage your own diabetes. It is about getting a Blood Glucose meter and seeing how your body responds to different foods and adjusting what you eat to what the meter shows you your body can cope with.
Most people here on the forum who are successful in managing their diabetes and in many cases pushing it into remission, use this method of testing just before each meal and then 2 hours afterwards and using that info to tailor their diet to their body and their tastes. So if that meal spikes their BG levels more than 2-3 mmols, then there were too many carbs in that meal and they need to reduce the portion size for next time they have it. Keeping a food diary alongside your readings will enable you to see what works for you and what doesn't and which carbs your body can cope with and which are best avoided and this is where it becomes very individual. You have to become your own expert in your own diabetes because you live with it day by day and meal by meal. For me bread is my nemesis and whilst occasionally I will have a slice or two (maybe just once or twice a year these days) it is absolutely not worth the BG upheaval. I also avoid pasta and wholegrains but occasionally have a couple of small potatoes or sweet potato or a dessert spoon of rice. Mostly I avoid all high carb foods. That may seem quite radical but it is actually quite enjoyable once you get the hang of it.

I very much doubt you will get any more sense from a private consultation. They might bamboozle you with terminology and suggest different medication or insulin but they can't grasp the nature of your diabetes in just one short consultation, so in my opinion you would be wasting your money.

I am guessing you will have been allocated a limited number of test strips with your BG meter, so it might be wise to invest in one of your own that you can do a lot more intensive testing so that you can learn rather than just react to your levels.
If you are interested in this approach then please ask as we can advise reliable and economical test kits for self funding.... the cost with testing is in the test strips so it may well be cheaper to buy a new meter than buy extra test strips for the one you have been supplied with. Test strip prices can vary hugely and they are individual to each meter so cannot be used in other meters.

Anyway, hope I haven't overwhelmed you with too much info. Anything you don't understand please ask and if you have concerns about your insulin be persistent with the GP or nurse. You should not be abandoned with what is potentially a life threatening medication without sufficient support.

Have you been advised about "hypos" and what to look out for and how to treat one if you get one and to always carry your test kit and hypo treatment around with you and keep it by the bed at night?
If you drive, have you notified DVLA and your insurance and are you aware of the rules around insulin use and driving?

 

[Gumflumph]

Thank you for reply my insulin is humilin l but not sure if this works for me I had reading this morning of 17 before breakfast 2hrs after 22.5 only had two weetabix

 

[rebrascora]

Two Weetabix would probably be too many carbs for many diet controlled Type 2s at breakfast time but with you being on insulin you should be able to get away with them if your dose is right. It usually takes some time to work out the correct doses of insulin for people as it is quite individual and perhaps the correct insulin type or regime, which is why there should be follow up checks within the first few weeks to assess how it is going and if there needs to be any adjustment. They usually start you on a conservative dose as it is important to bring levels down slowly and steadily to protect the small blood vessels in the eyes from excessive strain due to sudden and dramatic drop in glucose levels.

You didn't answer how much insulin you use and is it injected twice a day?

 

[Gumflumph]

Did you have a different blood test to identify that you was type 1 ? What was the test called ?
My readings are still very high morning 15.1 toasted cheese Sandwich 2hrs later 20.6 I inject on number 12 in morning
Once a day at moment just spoke to diabetes team they want me to inject on number 4 evenings also , not sure if the right insulin for me I expected better results my insulin is humilin l probably the cheap one lol

 

[Drummer]

Did you have a different blood test to identify that you was type 1 ? What was the test called ?
My readings are still very high morning 15.1 toasted cheese Sandwich 2hrs later 20.6 I inject on number 12 in morning
Once a day at moment just spoke to diabetes team they want me to inject on number 4 evenings also , not sure if the right insulin for me I expected better results my insulin is humilin l probably the cheap one lol

The pattern seems to be that you eat a high carb breakfast and your BG increases by about 5 whole numbers even with the insulin injection.
I'd suggest trying to reduce your carb intake by maybe 10 percent and see if that results in lower numbers - which would indicate that there is a connection for you to work on. It would not be safe to make huge changes, but as your numbers seem to be so very high carb reduction, done carefully, might help.

 

[Lucyr]

Two Weetabix would probably be too many carbs for many diet controlled Type 2s at breakfast time but with you being on insulin you should be able to get away with them if your dose is right. It usually takes some time to work out the correct doses of insulin for people as it is quite individual and perhaps the correct insulin type or regime, which is why there should be follow up checks within the first few weeks to assess how it is going and if there needs to be any adjustment. They usually start you on a conservative dose as it is important to bring levels down slowly and steadily to protect the small blood vessels in the eyes from excessive strain due to sudden and dramatic drop in glucose levels.

You didn't answer how much insulin you use and is it injected twice a day?

Isn’t Humilin I a background insulin so it wouldn’t be covering any carbohydrates you eat only the background insulin needs between meals?

 

[Lucyr]

Did you have a different blood test to identify that you was type 1 ? What was the test called ?
My readings are still very high morning 15.1 toasted cheese Sandwich 2hrs later 20.6 I inject on number 12 in morning
Once a day at moment just spoke to diabetes team they want me to inject on number 4 evenings also , not sure if the right insulin for me I expected better results my insulin is humilin l probably the cheap one lol

When you start insulin it is normal to start on a very low dose and slowly increase it over time until you get to the right dose. I expect you need to increase the dose quite a bit, obviously only with the advice of your diabetes team until you know what you’re doing properly. In a few weeks when you get to the right dose you’ll hopefully be feeling better.

It’s very important that you bring these high blood sugars down very slowly. If you bring them down too quickly it can damage your eyesight.