GOVERNMENT LETTER RE VULNERABILITY (COVID19)

[Lammas]

I have been expecting a letter defining my vulnerable status as a 65 year old diabetic qualifying for the flu jab. This was given as the criteria for being classified as such on the Gov.UK website on March 23. I haven't received a letter telling me how to proceed so I contacted my GP today to be told the advice changed on March 24, ie. 24 hours later. The flu jab no longer classifies me as being in a serious enough category though chronic respiratory disease and cancer does. On the World Ometer website diabetes is given as the 2nd highest risk category ABOVE chronic resp disease and cancers. I'm confused. Can anyone explain why the 2nd highest risk group has been down graded for the purposes of government vulnerable person classification.

 

[Amigo]

I have been expecting a letter defining my vulnerable status as a 65 year old diabetic qualifying for the flu jab. This was given as the criteria for being classified as such on the Gov.UK website on March 23. I haven't received a letter telling me how to proceed so I contacted my GP today to be told the advice changed on March 24, ie. 24 hours later. The flu jab no longer classifies me as being in a serious enough category though chronic respiratory disease and cancer does. On the World Ometer website diabetes is given as the 2nd highest risk category ABOVE chronic resp disease and cancers. I'm confused. Can anyone explain why the 2nd highest risk group has been down graded for the purposes of government vulnerable person classification.

These are the very high risk categories included in the 12 week ‘shielding list’ and diabetes alone as a medical condition is not included. Many of the categories have severely compromised immune systems meaning they would be unlikely to mount an adequate response to the Covid19 virus. That and severely impaired respiratory systems meaning the lungs would be unable to cope. Frankly I’ve no idea why diabetes could be seen to qualify as a higher risk for Coronavirus than these groups. Remember, it’s ‘some cancers’ not all and very significant respiratory conditions which could prove life threatening by a viral infiltration of the lungs. Whilst I’m sadly included in this vulnerable group for other reasons, I’d not expect my diabetes to qualify me.

You still need to distance and stay safe however. Best wishes.


1. Solid organ transplant recipients

2. People with specific cancers

• People with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy or radical radiotherapy for lung cancer

• People with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma who are at any stage of treatment

• People having immunotherapy or other continuing antibody treatments for cancer

• People having other targeted cancer treatments which can affect the immune system, such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors.

• People who have had bone marrow or stem cell transplants in the last 6 months, or who are still taking immunosuppression drugs.

3. People with severe respiratory conditions including all cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe COPD

4. People with rare diseases and inborn errors of metabolism that significantly increase the risk of infections (such as SCID, homozygous sickle cell disease)

5. People on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection

6. People who are pregnant with significant heart disease, congenital or acquired’

Source: NHS England

 

[NotWorriedAtAll]

For some reason the government is not following WHO guidelines on who to categorise as high risk.
Maybe because they are more bothered about who will not be able to fight off the disease rather than who will get it severely.

According to the WHO website (World Health Organisation) people most likely to get a severe version of the disease are as follows:

"While we are still learning about how COVID-2019 affects people, older persons and persons with pre-existing medical conditions (such as high blood pressure, heart disease, lung disease, cancer or diabetes) appear to develop serious illness more often than others."

So while the government may not classify people with high blood pressure, heart disease and/or diabetes as high risk personally I do and personally I will be following guidelines and going above and beyond to protect myself and loved ones. But I think we will be needing to take care of ourselves and each other because there don't seem to be any special help or precautions for us.

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19)

WHO is continuously monitoring and responding to this pandemic. This questions and answers page will be updated as more is known about COVID-19, how it spreads and how it is affecting people worldwide. For more information, regularly check the WHO coronavirus pages. https://www.who.int/covid-19

www.who.int

 

[Amigo]

For some reason the government is not following WHO guidelines on who to categorise as high risk.
Maybe because they are more bothered about who will not be able to fight off the disease rather than who will get it severely.

According to the WHO website (World Health Organisation) people most likely to get a severe version of the disease are as follows:

While we are still learning about how COVID-2019 affects people, older persons and persons with pre-existing medical conditions (such as high blood pressure, heart disease, lung disease, cancer or diabetes) appear to develop serious illness more often than others.

So while the government may not classify people with high blood pressure, heart disease and/or diabetes as high risk personally I do and personally I will be following guidelines and going above and beyond to protect myself and loved ones. But I think we will be needing to take care of ourselves and each other because there don't seem to be any special help or precautions for us.

I think that’s the right attitude because we don’t need a Govt letter to exercise good sense in protecting ourselves. The letter confers no special privileges and hasn’t helped me to get priority shopping deliveries. It just reminds me they should I get this wretched virus, I’m at mega increased risk of being hospitalised. At the end of the day, the NHS coding used looked at hospital admission episodes as one of the criteria for inclusion because they are keenly trying to protect NHS resources too.
I think the list has been sensibly selected but it doesn’t mean people with a myriad of different health conditions like diabetes shouldn’t take much more care. There‘s no doubt in my mind that the vulnerable list are viewed as the patients most likely to end up in ICU and frankly I wish I only had diabetes.

 

[NotWorriedAtAll]

I think that’s the right attitude because we don’t need a Govt letter to exercise good sense in protecting ourselves. The letter confers no special privileges and hasn’t helped me to get priority shopping deliveries. It just reminds me they should I get this wretched virus, I’m at mega increased risk of being hospitalised. At the end of the day, the NHS coding used looked at hospital admission episodes as one of the criteria for inclusion because they are keenly trying to protect NHS resources too.
I think the list has been sensibly selected but it doesn’t mean people with a myriad of different health conditions like diabetes shouldn’t take much more care. There‘s no doubt in my mind that the vulnerable list are viewed as the patients most likely to end up in ICU and frankly I wish I only had diabetes.

I think some people need the government letter because without it their employers won't allow them to stop working when they really ought to be self-isolating. There are employers making employees with chronic conditions come into work and if they had this letter they could stay home without losing their jobs.

 

[Amigo]

I think some people need the government letter because without it their employers won't allow them to stop working when they really ought to be self-isolating. There are employers making employees with chronic conditions come into work and if they had this letter they could stay home without losing their jobs.

Yes I fully understand that issue NotWorried but clearly diabetes as a condition hasn’t been viewed as a clinical indicator to warrant isolation and therefore time away from work.
The notification is in a mess anyway and many people on the qualifying list are still trying to obtain letters.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Sorry you have been victim to the confusing coverage recently.

Ive been following the announcements closely, and there has certainly been some confusion and differences between media/journalist comments (and sometimes even the press briefings themselves), and the written details on the .gov website, which has remained very consistent throughout:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

We have had many members arriving here very confused by who is and isn’t on the 1.5 million ‘12 week self isolation’ ‘highly vulnerable’ list. People with diabetes were never on that list, but some news items have suggested that people with diabetes (all 4.8million) were included.

Some people in the 1.5 million list who have been notified by text/letter will have diabetes, but they will also have other complication factors.

 

[trophywench]

My OH is one of the 1.5m, he has COPD resulting in loss of 50% of normal lung capacity - on a GOOD day.
We do normally like to socialise but as a result of being indoors in inclement weather with 8 or 10 friends usually gets a bad chest infection a few days later requiring both heavy duty ABs and steroids to shift.

We're not in the first flush of youth and 'this lot' is truly scary for both of us, because of his health.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, he rang his cousin today to see how they are - she's about 76 I think, her husband has Alzheimer's and she is his carer. She has just been diagnosed with myeloma but they aren't prescribing anything to try and treat it because anything they could would interfere with her immune system and the NHS regard that as more life threatening to her at the mo than the myeloma. Gulp.

 

[grovesy]

My OH is one of the 1.5m, he has COPD resulting in loss of 50% of normal lung capacity - on a GOOD day.
We do normally like to socialise but as a result of being indoors in inclement weather with 8 or 10 friends usually gets a bad chest infection a few days later requiring both heavy duty ABs and steroids to shift.

We're not in the first flush of youth and 'this lot' is truly scary for both of us, because of his health.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, he rang his cousin today to see how they are - she's about 76 I think, her husband has Alzheimer's and she is his carer. She has just been diagnosed with myeloma but they aren't prescribing anything to try and treat it because anything they could would interfere with her immune system and the NHS regard that as more life threatening to her at the mo than the myeloma. Gulp.

I know someone who was diagnosed with myeloma a few years ago and the type she had was offered monitoring, or Radiotherapy she opted for Radiotherapy.

 

[NotWorriedAtAll]

My mum had a letter yesterday from her GP.
She quarantined it and opened it today and then rang me.
Basically it was a 'please fill this form in so we can let you die if you get ill' letter!!!

Luckily she has a dark sense of humour so she was laughing about it rather than upset. We are going to collect it from her when we drop her food down next and then my husband and I will have a good look at it and we'll all decide how to fill it in for her - luckily we have lasting power of attorney that we sorted out years ago - so we can fill these things in for her and make sure she doesn't get too stressed about things.

But it is grim and has confirmed me in my resolution to stay away from people and keep them away from her as well. Luckily I inherited my hermit instincts from her so I know she won't be mixing with anyone and she is quite enjoying her solitude. We talk every day on the phone.

 

[SB2015]

My mum had a letter yesterday from her GP.
She quarantined it and opened it today and then rang me.
Basically it was a 'please fill this form in so we can let you die if you get ill' letter!!!

Luckily she has a dark sense of humour so she was laughing about it rather than upset. We are going to collect it from her when we drop her food down next and then my husband and I will have a good look at it and we'll all decide how to fill it in for her - luckily we have lasting power of attorney that we sorted out years ago - so we can fill these things in for her and make sure she doesn't get too stressed about things.

But it is grim and has confirmed me in my resolution to stay away from people and keep them away from her as well. Luckily I inherited my hermit instincts from her so I know she won't be mixing with anyone and she is quite enjoying her solitude. We talk every day on the phone.

It must be a shock to get such a letter, however I am pleased that your mum has a sense of humour, and good that you have already sorted LPAs with her. That reminds me we have printed off the forms but still not got round to doing them.

 

[zoombapup]

But it is grim and has confirmed me in my resolution to stay away from people and keep them away from her as well. Luckily I inherited my hermit instincts from her so I know she won't be mixing with anyone and she is quite enjoying her solitude. We talk every day on the phone.

Good to hear NotWorriedAtAll, my mum has a hard time without talking to others, luckily she's been practicing using the phone for hours every day to compensate. I do call her every day to check, but I guess it's harder for people who aren't happy with their own company.

Getting a letter like that must be very upsetting though. A stark reminder of the reality we're in right now. But we know what we have to do to stay alive and it really just involves keeping the door shut. I wish everyone could bring themselves to do it.

Best of luck with yours and her quarantine!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Yes I’ve heard that a lot of ‘encouragement to sign DNR letters’ have been circulated @NotWorriedAtAll . I understand them to an extent, but it’s a pretty horrific state of affairs to have these sent out wholesale

I believe many young people with disabilities have also received them, alongside older people. I‘d imagine they would have significant MH implications for how you feel valued by society as a person.

 

[Davein]

These are the very high risk categories included in the 12 week ‘shielding list’ and diabetes alone as a medical condition is not included. Many of the categories have severely compromised immune systems meaning they would be unlikely to mount an adequate response to the Covid19 virus. That and severely impaired respiratory systems meaning the lungs would be unable to cope. Frankly I’ve no idea why diabetes could be seen to qualify as a higher risk for Coronavirus than these groups. Remember, it’s ‘some cancers’ not all and very significant respiratory conditions which could prove life threatening by a viral infiltration of the lungs. Whilst I’m sadly included in this vulnerable group for other reasons, I’d not expect my diabetes to qualify me.

You still need to distance and stay safe however. Best wishes.


1. Solid organ transplant recipients

2. People with specific cancers

• People with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy or radical radiotherapy for lung cancer

• People with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma who are at any stage of treatment

• People having immunotherapy or other continuing antibody treatments for cancer

• People having other targeted cancer treatments which can affect the immune system, such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors.

• People who have had bone marrow or stem cell transplants in the last 6 months, or who are still taking immunosuppression drugs.

3. People with severe respiratory conditions including all cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe COPD

4. People with rare diseases and inborn errors of metabolism that significantly increase the risk of infections (such as SCID, homozygous sickle cell disease)

5. People on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection

6. People who are pregnant with significant heart disease, congenital or acquired’

Source: NHS England

I applied for my partner (live chemo- lung cancer) and she received gov text saying they were checking with NHS.
But apart from food deliveries, which we don't need at the moment, what other 'benefits' of being on this list?
Does anyone know?

 

[megga]

I've received my letter, and it isn't no fun, my wife works still, so for 12 weeks you cant go out, not even for exercise, cant share any hugs, cuddles or that peck on the lips that me and my wife share every day, sleeping in separate rooms. From someone who works full time and socialiser's, its a very lonely place to be at the moment, and to be told you're "Extremely vulnerable" doesn't do much for your self esteem. I'm one of the lucky ones as I have a garden. So if you don't get the letter, by all means be extremely cautious, but you can go for that walk for exercise, you can still share your life with your loved ones.

 

[Amigo]

I applied for my partner (live chemo- lung cancer) and she received gov text saying they were checking with NHS.
But apart from food deliveries, which we don't need at the moment, what other 'benefits' of being on this list?
Does anyone know?

It doesn’t confer any other privileges apart from getting priority slots for supermarket deliveries but you still need to compete for the slots with everyone else and I haven’t managed to find one free for the Asda for weeks!
It’s more about exercising individual good sense than relying on prompts from Govt texts and clearly your partner is at additional risk like me (I’m also having cancer treatment). Stay safe! Amigo

Incidentally, my GP has written on my Care Plan, ‘must be resuscitated in event of collapse’.

 

[NotWorriedAtAll]

Do not resuscitate (DNR) letters.

I don't know how many people currently hold a DNR letter. Last year, my uncle had to carry his DNR on his person so that medical staff could read it and follow its instructions.
If a person does not have the DNR letter with them when medical staff arrive, they will not take your word for it, and treat you anyway.
But, even if medical staff are holding your DNR letter you can still change your mind (as long as you are still conscious) and ask to be treated.

My uncle died last summer, sadly missed.

Sorry to hear about your Uncle Benny G.

If it was just a DNR letter I'd feel more relaxed about it as she already has made her views clear on that.
But this goes much further than that.
It is a 'give us permission not to hospitalise you at all' letter.
I haven't seen it yet but the bit she read out to me basically said this is like a death plan.
So you tell them if you want to go into hospital or not if you need hospital treatment.
It couches in terms of preferring to stay in the comfort of your own home and as everydayupsanddowns said I can sort of see where they are coming from but it is very scary.
I suppose it is like asking a workforce for people to volunteer for early retirement but instead it's asking people to volunteer for not being treated. I'm glad she has us to talk it through with so we can make sure she genuinely understands all the implications and makes an informed choice that truly fits with her wishes.

 

[Davein]

It doesn’t confer any other privileges apart from getting priority slots for supermarket deliveries but you still need to compete for the slots with everyone else and I haven’t managed to find one free for the Asda for weeks!
It’s more about exercising individual good sense than relying on prompts from Govt texts and clearly your partner is at additional risk like me (I’m also having cancer treatment). Stay safe! Amigo

Incidentally, my GP has written on my Care Plan, ‘must be resuscitated in event of collapse’.

Thanks Amigo. I won't be disappointed then.
We will be breaking the 12 week isolation by having to go for a vital blood test prior to second chemo cycle. Blood test is at local surgery who are being obstructive. The pharmacy, although run independently is adjoined to the surgery. Social media pictures posted a couple of days ago showed the queues snaking past the surgery doors so just praying we don't have to cross through them. At least hospital cancer unit is still operating at the moment but this virus obviously trumps nearly everything else.

 

[grovesy]

Thanks Amigo. I won't be disappointed then.
We will be breaking the 12 week isolation by having to go for a vital blood test prior to second chemo cycle. Blood test is at local surgery who are being obstructive. The pharmacy, although run independently is adjoined to the surgery. Social media pictures posted a couple of days ago showed the queues snaking past the surgery doors so just praying we don't have to cross through them. At least hospital cancer unit is still operating at the moment but this virus obviously trumps nearly everything else.

Have you checked on your local councils website around here they have launched a Welfare Service, they offering help with lots of things. They have been live over week. It is worth a look .

 

[grovesy]

Thanks Amigo. I won't be disappointed then.
We will be breaking the 12 week isolation by having to go for a vital blood test prior to second chemo cycle. Blood test is at local surgery who are being obstructive. The pharmacy, although run independently is adjoined to the surgery. Social media pictures posted a couple of days ago showed the queues snaking past the surgery doors so just praying we don't have to cross through them. At least hospital cancer unit is still operating at the moment but this virus obviously trumps nearly everything else.

Have you thought your surgery may not be getting specimens collected?