a little concerned

[hopingandwinning]

I'm 34, male, 6ft2, healthy weight etc. and no known conditions although I am taking mirtazipine for the last 2 months. I have a close direct relative, father, who has diabetes type 2 (diagnosed in mid 50s).

The last 3 days I've woken up in the middle of the night and had this strange sensation that I needed to pee. However it definitely isn't a strong, intense urge but rather just a slight awareness if that makes sense. I didn't go the first night but the last two nights I've been and passed a fair amount of urine, e.g. last night around 1.2 litres. I've sort of put this down to the fact that I had roughly this amount before I went to bed. I tend to drink alot of green tea and black tea sometimes too, usually one big mug before bed. Yesterday I drank 2.5 in the late eveving. However I did empty my bladder before bed but obviously it takes a while for it to be processed as urine?

Reason I say all this, I realise that nocturia is a symptom for diabetes. However, I don't think I'm peeing way more than I should during the day and I'm certainly NOT thirsty or hungry and am not tired. Quick test of urine with strips and that came up normal. So my doctor mentioned that possibly this symptom is anxiety related. It just bothers me that I wake up in the middle of night and then have this slight urgency to pee as I've never had this before (even if it's not really intense, like that desperate feeling).

Even so, I'm still concerned and so I decided to use my father's Bayer Contour meter and just test out my blood sugar level as I haven't done this in years. I did this 2 hours after I had some breakfast which was 3 weetabixes, some oats/granola with about 100ml of semi skimmed milk - roughly this equates to around 13g of sugars (from carbs) from my rough estimate.
My reading was 7.0 mmol (126mg/dl) which I hear is just about ok for a post prandial, is that correct? In terms of what I ate (and I had nothing else bar water), would you say that is a healthy level for someone without diabetes?

 

[Amigo]

I'm 34, male, 6ft2, healthy weight etc. and no known conditions although I am taking mirtazipine for the last 2 months. I have a close direct relative, father, who has diabetes type 2 (diagnosed in mid 50s).

The last 3 days I've woken up in the middle of the night and had this strange sensation that I needed to pee. However it definitely isn't a strong, intense urge but rather just a slight awareness if that makes sense. I didn't go the first night but the last two nights I've been and passed a fair amount of urine, e.g. last night around 1.2 litres. I've sort of put this down to the fact that I had roughly this amount before I went to bed. I tend to drink alot of green tea and black tea sometimes too, usually one big mug before bed. Yesterday I drank 2.5 in the late eveving. However I did empty my bladder before bed but obviously it takes a while for it to be processed as urine?

Reason I say all this, I realise that nocturia is a symptom for diabetes. However, I don't think I'm peeing way more than I should during the day and I'm certainly NOT thirsty or hungry and am not tired. Quick test of urine with strips and that came up normal. So my doctor mentioned that possibly this symptom is anxiety related. It just bothers me that I wake up in the middle of night and then have this slight urgency to pee as I've never had this before (even if it's not really intense, like that desperate feeling).

Even so, I'm still concerned and so I decided to use my father's Bayer Contour meter and just test out my blood sugar level as I haven't done this in years. I did this 2 hours after I had some breakfast which was 3 weetabixes, some oats/granola with about 100ml of semi skimmed milk - roughly this equates to around 13g of sugars (from carbs) from my rough estimate.
My reading was 7.0 mmol (126mg/dl) which I hear is just about ok for a post prandial, is that correct? In terms of what I ate (and I had nothing else bar water), would you say that is a healthy level for someone without diabetes?

Hi, the 3 weetabix alone without oats/granola and milk would be around 39 grams of carb so 2 hrs later, a reading under 7.8 would be within non-diabetic parameters. It would be interesting to see what your waking figure is without food. That’s a hefty amount of carb and would push most type 2’s pretty high.

I really wouldn’t interpret one stand alone urinary frequency symptom as probable cause of diabetes hopingandwinning because you could possibly even have a bladder infection or some anxiety as your GP suggests. You’re also drinking high amounts before bed and it has to come out at some point I know you’re young but also consider a PSA test to make sure there’s no prostate issues.

With your father having type 2, there could be a familial risk so be careful with your carb intake, exercise as much as possible and just be aware of symptoms. If you continue to be concerned, ask your GP to do a Hba1c test. Those pee sticks are not useful because it’s calculated that your glucose needs to be over 10 for them to register. They never registered with me prior to diagnosis.

Hope it goes well. Be vigilant but not overly concerned. If the urinary frequency continues, I’d push the issue with the GP to investigate diabetes and possible other causes.

 

[Sprogladite]

Hi, welcome to the forum 🙂 it doesn't sound to me like you have anything to worry about. A reading of 7.0 is very good considering the amount of carbs in that breakfast, and as you aren't displaying any other symptoms and have seen your GP I'd be very surprised if you had anything to worry about. Have you tried going to bed without drinking before bed? Seems silly I know but would be interesting to see if you were still up in the night!

 

[hopingandwinning]

Thank you both for your replies, much appreciated.
Yeah in terms of the blood sugar then, yeah that seems fine considering what I had. I'm reading all these recommended sugar levels after meals, but I guess surely it depends on what you have? I suppose it all depends on Although I am surprised, I thought that was relatively healthy for a breakfast! Oh and when I meant granola, I actually just meant oats and nuts (no fruit) but it was still relatively sweet. I've been having breakfasts like these for years! I think it is definitely time to cut down on my sugar intake for sure.

So the doctor did perform the urinalysis on the urine sample I just provided the same morning. He said there were no issues, no inflammation etc.
It's almost 6pm here and I would say I'm peeing a little more than usual but not a great deal, maybe upto 2 litres in the day now (with over 1litre overnight). Tonight, I'll drink one glass of water and that's it and hopefully won't be waking up.

 

[hopingandwinning]

Does anyone how many say grams of carbs+carbohydrates equates to 1 mg/dl ? Is there a way to calculate this? So say 39 grams of carbs which were the three wetabixes, how much would convert to in either mg/dl or mmol?

Also I forgot to mention that I was quite nervous/anxious when I took this reading as it was my first time. So I don't know if that has any effect?

 

[hopingandwinning]

"Hi, the 3 weetabix alone without oats/granola and milk would be around 39 grams of carb so 2 hrs later, a reading under 7.8 would be within non-diabetic parameters. It would be interesting to see what your waking figure is without food."

I'm guessing it would be around 6.0 or hopefully less?
In terms of mmol, how much would that breakfast have been? 1 mmol? 2 mmol? Or is there just no way of knowing?

 

[Amigo]

"Hi, the 3 weetabix alone without oats/granola and milk would be around 39 grams of carb so 2 hrs later, a reading under 7.8 would be within non-diabetic parameters. It would be interesting to see what your waking figure is without food."

I'm guessing it would be around 6.0 or hopefully less?
In terms of mmol, how much would that breakfast have been? 1 mmol? 2 mmol? Or is there just no way of knowing?

This is something I’ve tried to work out too but it’s actually not that easy for type 2’s in my experience. Type 1’s could tell you how many units they need per 10gram of carb for example but as we have some degree (often incalculable) of insulin output, the variables make it impossible to know. I try to keep the pre and post meal rise under 2.5 points (so if I start at 6,I don’t want to go above 8.5), but it does mean testing before and after to see what foods and in what amount achieve that. Feeling under the weather, more exercise, being stressed, warm outside etc. will all affect that. It’s not an exact science but whatever rise in mmol’s you had, the key thing is your body handled it. That’s the difference between diabetic and non diabetic.

To be honest, if after 3 weetabix, oats and milk you are a 7 after 2 hrs (bearing in mind that could be 55/60grams of carb), that’s pretty damm good and shows your insulin response is decent. If you have a job to do and exercise reasonably well, that’s a healthy breakfast for a young guy (as long as it isn’t slathered in sugar!).

I try to keep main meals to below 40grams carb and snacks below 12 grams but I don’t always achieve it. My insulin response is better on a morning and I can often be lower after breakfast than before.

My advice would be simply to make subtle changes like moderating the carbs, reducing or dropping extra sugar, think twice about carby choices like pie, pizza, pasta etc. There’s absolutely no certainty that you have or indeed will develop diabetes at the moment but give yourself a head start and keep up the physical exercise. A walk after meals will often cancel out the expected increase in bg’s after 2 hrs. Losing weight does help because in simplistic terms, it reduces the visceral fat around our organs and aids the insulin response.

Make some small but not drastic changes and if you’re still worried, ask your GP for a Hba1c.

 

[hopingandwinning]

This is something I’ve tried to work out too but it’s actually not that easy for type 2’s in my experience. Type 1’s could tell you how many units they need per 10gram of carb for example but as we have some degree (often incalculable) of insulin output, the variables make it impossible to know. I try to keep the pre and post meal rise under 2.5 points (so if I start at 6,I don’t want to go above 8.5), but it does mean testing before and after to see what foods and in what amount achieve that. Feeling under the weather, more exercise, being stressed, warm outside etc. will all affect that. It’s not an exact science but whatever rise in mmol’s you had, the key thing is your body handled it. That’s the difference between diabetic and non diabetic.

To be honest, if after 3 weetabix, oats and milk you are a 7 after 2 hrs (bearing in mind that could be 55/60grams of carb), that’s pretty damm good and shows your insulin response is decent. If you have a job to do and exercise reasonably well, that’s a healthy breakfast for a young guy (as long as it isn’t slathered in sugar!).

I try to keep main meals to below 40grams carb and snacks below 12 grams but I don’t always achieve it. My insulin response is better on a morning and I can often be lower after breakfast than before.

My advice would be simply to make subtle changes like moderating the carbs, reducing or dropping extra sugar, think twice about carby choices like pie, pizza, pasta etc. There’s absolutely no certainty that you have or indeed will develop diabetes at the moment but give yourself a head start and keep up the physical exercise. A walk after meals will often cancel out the expected increase in bg’s after 2 hrs. Losing weight does help because in simplistic terms, it reduces the visceral fat around our organs and aids the insulin response.

Make some small but not drastic changes and if you’re still worried, ask your GP for a Hba1c.

One question though - take my breakfast which was pretty much all carbs, thus it would have a quick rise in sugar level, no? Not gradual? So by the end of two hours, should my glucose level be at the level it would be BEFORE I had the breakfast?

I have heard one person say this - "A normal person who is not insulin resistant is going to spent most of their time under 100 (5.6) They may jump higher, but its not very long and not very high. For fasting or pre meals, most non insulin resistant people are going to be sitting in the 80s (4.4 - 5) and they will be back there within a couple of hours if not sooner."

Is this true??

Yes one thing I can already think of cutting out (besides the obvious sweet stuff) is white jasmine rice. I love it but I hear it is not actually that healthy and brown rice is far better.
I do and have always had a sweet tooth, sadly. I've tried to cut this down in recent years but I go through phases where I can resist cake and biscuits etc. but there'll be some weeks where I give in. I guess the way I've seen it is that I've never had any condition or any illness and have always been healthy and fairly fit and never overweight. So I suppose that has been my excuse. Not great.

Anyway thank you for your thoughts, very helpful, much appreciated.

 

[Amigo]

One question though - take my breakfast which was pretty much all carbs, thus it would have a quick rise in sugar level, no? Not gradual? So by the end of two hours, should my glucose level be at the level it would be BEFORE I had the breakfast?

I have heard one person say this - "A normal person who is not insulin resistant is going to spent most of their time under 100 (5.6) They may jump higher, but its not very long and not very high. For fasting or pre meals, most non insulin resistant people are going to be sitting in the 80s (4.4 - 5) and they will be back there within a couple of hours if not sooner."

Is this true??

Yes one thing I can already think of cutting out (besides the obvious sweet stuff) is white jasmine rice. I love it but I hear it is not actually that healthy and brown rice is far better.
I do and have always had a sweet tooth, sadly. I've tried to cut this down in recent years but I go through phases where I can resist cake and biscuits etc. but there'll be some weeks where I give in. I guess the way I've seen it is that I've never had any condition or any illness and have always been healthy and fairly fit and never overweight. So I suppose that has been my excuse. Not great.

Anyway thank you for your thoughts, very helpful, much appreciated.

This may help a little;

Type of carbs and what we eat with them impact massively which is why someone having a hypo wouldn’t eat a chocolate bar containing fat because it would slow down the glucose response needed.

‘Measuring the impact of various carbohydrates on blood sugar is a complex process that takes into account how much and how quickly the sugar gets into the bloodstream. The glycemic index (GI) is a measuring system giving a numerical rating to each carbohydrate. The GI can be useful for athletes looking for sustained energy and optimal recovery. The GI further categorizes carbs into "high-glycemic" and "low-glycemic" foods.’


https://www.active.com/articles/not-all-carbs-are-created-equal?page=1

 

[trophywench]

Firstly it is perfectly normal for people without diabetes to increase their BG after eating carbs.

I'm Type 1 and your breakfast would increase my before brekkie BG number by at least 5.0 on a meter. I often have ONE Weetabix and full fat milk and have to jab as if it is 25g of carbs.