Basal Testing...

[Vix]

Right, I've changed my lantus to 10pm not 8am on the advise of my consultant... it worked for a day and a half but now back to square one so I did a basal test this morning, hope I did it right:

8am BM 8.3
10am BM 8.7 (ate a boiled egg and a bit of gruyere cheese as I was starving)
12 noon BM 12.7!

So, I am going to test another 2 days this week and then go onto lunch time fasting etc... but do you think that so far it seems like my basal is running out at lunch time? This would make sense as the last few days since changing lantus times (apart from today typically!) I have been 5s until lunchtime and then it rockets to anywhere between 11 and 15 in the afternoon/evening!

I am assuming eggs and cheese were ok to eat as no carbs?

If I increase my basal does it mean that it will last longer or that I will be getting more of it before lunchtime if not lasting long enough at the mo? Apart from today my waking sugars have been 5 which is perfect so don't want to suddenly get hypos if I increase

Off to have some cauliflower cheese now as I'm starving!! I'm not happy it's gone high now but at least I feel like I'm doing some detective work to finding out the problem before can find a solution as my DSN is never available and feel totally alone in terms of diabetes support from my team...

Xx

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Vix, read the basal testing thread in the pump section.
Eggs are protein hence your blood sugar rise. If you are hungry drink some water 🙂

 

[novorapidboi26]

Ideally you should refrain from protein and fats to get accurate results, but on injections I wouldn't expect an egg and cheese to give a rise such as the one observed......

More testing needed.....🙂

 

[Vix]

Thanks Pamer Sue, I couldn't remember where I'd seen the basal testing bit... I'll go and look now as I've gone up to 14.8 and can't stop crying, so tempted just to overdose myself on insulin so I don't have to deal with this any more

xx

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Thanks Pamer Sue, I couldn't remember where I'd seen the basal testing bit... I'll go and look now as I've gone up to 14.8 and can't stop crying, so tempted just to overdose myself on insulin so I don't have to deal with this any more

xx

Don't be daft,
there's ways and means of getting things better for you until you have your pump. You need to show you can work things out and have tried different things. This will be to your advantage when using a pump.

If as you have suspected and suggested in other posts, your basal isn't lasting 24/7 then your next step is to split the basal.
Hopefully you have now corrected the 14.8 and will soon start to feel better and a bit more rational. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Ideally you should refrain from protein and fats to get accurate results, but on injections I wouldn't expect an egg and cheese to give a rise such as the one observed......

I would have to inject to cover egg and cheese if no carbs eaten. It would not matter if I was using MDI or a pump.

 

[novorapidboi26]

I would have to inject to cover egg and cheese if no carbs eaten. It would not matter if I was using MDI or a pump.

I wouldn't, so who is right?....

I think your case is less common, no?

 

[Pumper_Sue]

I wouldn't, so who is right?....

I think your case is less common, no?

Nope many have found they can not eat a protein and or fat meal and not inject for it.

The point is though everyone is different so Vix and everyone else who basal tests needs to make sure no food of any sort is eaten. SF jelly is I think the only thing people have found that is safe

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I don't seem to see much rise from protein/fat myself (unless it's a MASSIVE amount) and the conversion is usually much slower for me - so at least 3-5hrs before I see anything

Having said that, while I know others are happy to eat protein/fat while basal testing I prefer to stick to water if I can manage it - if I'm going to basal test the last thing I want is for there to be a possibility that I messed it up by eating something and feel like i have to go through it all over again!

It's only a few hours, so not usually too bad - after all if I was going in for surgery or whatever I'd just have to tough it out.

One thought Vix - when did you change your Lantus timing back? It might still be settling in. Lantus can take a few days to settle for some people

 

[Vix]

I don't normally see a rise in my sugars with just protein/fat, but nothing surprises me at the moment... I'm completely at rock bottom I will try my basal test again tomorrow and not eat anything, can't seem to get anything right these days

I did 3 correction units on top of my usual bolus dose at lunchtime and 1.5 hrs later it's still 14.7!!! I'm going to run out of tears at this rate 😉

I changed my lantus last Weds Mike, and for the first day after they were literally perfect results but then all went to pot again and they're worse now than when I was injecting in the morning. Everyone keeps telling me to be patience and give it another week but that's easier said than done when I feel like this when my sugars are high

The last thing I want is to use a pump but slowly I'm changing my mind if it can bring back some 'normality' to life as I'm making stupid mistakes at work when my sugars are high and I feel like my diabetes is controlling me at the moment despite all the hard work to try and conquer it!

xx

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Hang in there. I've been where you are when I was trying to get Lantus to work for me and it is a PITA. But it DOES get easier and it IS worth it (there are a bunch of posts on our blog documenting the highs, lows and downright rage of my own experiments!)

Once you've worked out how to get it to behave(ish) for you you'll be able to make occasional adjustments on the fly because boluses/corrections are being a bit under or over and only need to test for the bigger/less frequent wobbles.

 

[novorapidboi26]

I did 3 correction units on top of my usual bolus dose at lunchtime and 1.5 hrs later it's still 14.7!!! I'm going to run out of tears at this rate 😉

When I was on injections I took nearer 6 units for a bg of 14.7 as the higher I was the less effective the insulin became....

I done a lot of testing and recording to come up with correction/sensitivity factors at different levels of high.......If above 17 I needed 1 unit for a 1 mmol drop....

 

[Annette]

When I was on injections I took nearer 6 units for a bg of 14.7 as the higher I was the less effective the insulin became....

I done a lot of testing and recording to come up with correction/sensitivity factors at different levels of high.......If above 17 I needed 1 unit for a 1 mmol drop....

I need a higher than usual correction factor if I am above 13 - my DSN told me once that its another of those things that changes per person - some people's threshold is higher/lower than others so the Correction goes up at different levels - you need to find your own (through trial and error, mainly).

 

[Vix]

oh, thanks - I didn't realise that my correction dose would be different for different levels!! I normally do 1 to bring it down 3 but to be honest I'm not sure any of my formulas for anything are working at the moment so a complete and utter guessing game! I've changed hospitals and in desperate need of help at the moment but don't seem to be getting it

thanks Mike, it always seems worse when you're in the situation doesn't it! Although I can't help but think that wanting to start a family is adding a bit more urgency and frustration to it!!

I'm going to check again at half 3 and see if it's come down at all... but surely a correction dose should make a slight difference even it if it was 1 to bring down 1 it should have brought it down to 11.7?

Off to try and distract myself as I'm going crazy today...

xx

 

[Vix]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH now 16.3!!!! xx

 

[Pumper_Sue]

I don't normally see a rise in my sugars with just protein/fat, but nothing surprises me at the moment... I'm completely at rock bottom I will try my basal test again tomorrow and not eat anything, can't seem to get anything right these days

I did 3 correction units on top of my usual bolus dose at lunchtime and 1.5 hrs later it's still 14.7!!! I'm going to run out of tears at this rate 😉

I changed my lantus last Weds Mike, and for the first day after they were literally perfect results but then all went to pot again and they're worse now than when I was injecting in the morning. Everyone keeps telling me to be patience and give it another week but that's easier said than done when I feel like this when my sugars are high
As you changed on Weds and had perfect results do you think you had more lantus in you than you thought i.e, the AM dose wasn't fully out of your system. Thus you had 24/7 cover without realizing it?
The last thing I want is to use a pump but slowly I'm changing my mind if it can bring back some 'normality' to life as I'm making stupid mistakes at work when my sugars are high and I feel like my diabetes is controlling me at the moment despite all the hard work to try and conquer it!

xx

Take small steps and you will get there, every day is a learning curve with diabetes.
Once your basal is sorted as best as can be got on MDI, the bolus will be easier to sort.
Reading your last post regarding going higher, have you checked your pens to make sure they are delivering and no cracked cartridges in them?

Did you also wait until you had dropped down to below 8 before you ate or did you eat when you were above 12? This would make one heck of a dif as to why you went so high after eating.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Did you also wait until you had dropped down to below 8 before you ate or did you eat when you were above 12? This would make one heck of a dif as to why you went so high after eating.

Absolutely agree with that Sue - one of the most eyebrow raising things I've heard about DAFNE (though I'#ve not actually done the course myself) is the starting point of only ever correcting before meals. Just wouldn't work well for me!

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH now 16.3!!!! xx

Any chance you are coming down with something? Injection sites OK?

Something is clearly not right.

Feel for you. Hope tomorrow is a MUCH better day - you've earned it!

 

[Vix]

Oooh I didn't realise I had to get before 8 before eating! Having said that I'd never eat if that were the case at the moment... I was injecting more than I would with a meal for no food yesterday at points and it still wasn't bringing it down

I thought I might be coming down with something but feel absolutely fine apart from the dreaded D! There's definitely something not right, nor has it been for months but I can't find the cause I've tried completely different injections (gone back to my old ones as they didn't seem to make a difference and I hate the ones you press on top as I end up black and blue as I can't seem to be able to press them down without really digging the needles in - I use 4mm needles) so I have autopens that click on the side... I've changed to new autopens thrown whole boxes of cartridges out to check it's not that!

You may have a point though Pumper Sue - if that's the case though does that mean that a split dose would be better or that I need to increase my dose? I've had a couple of night hypos since changing my lantus to eve so was scared to increase the dose - but does it just mean the dose will 'last longer' or that it will increase the dose over the same amount of time? You wouldn't believe i've been diabetic 18 years would you 😉 Problem is when I went from 2 injections a day to 4 it was assumed that I'd automatically know the difference and we never really taught the new system!

I'm waiting to do my very short version of daphne (3 x 2.5hr sessions over 6 weeks) but my DSN tells me never to correct unless it's before a meal and if my sugars are high I used to just have a salad or something no/low carb but was told that's the wrong thing and i have to eat a normal meal with carbs and then add correction dose to normal dose even if sugars are 16! - I ignored her yesterday and it still didn't work!

I'm doing another basal test this morning and so far so good, but it was not too bad until about 11am yesterday:

Waking (7am) - 6.2
8am - 5.1
9am - 6.3

Will see what the rest of today brings, wish me luck 😉

Xx

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Hi Vix,
very good test so far well done.
Splitting your dose will prob mean less insulin, so don't worry in that dept. 🙂
It's not your fault you are out of your depth at the moment, that is down to your so called health care team.
You are learning though and exploring all possibilities without a closed mind, which is fantastic.
Have you looked on line at the Bdec carb counting course? If not have a go at it as it will give you a head start and help you to understand things even more.

You do not need to go eating loads of starchy carbs as instructed by your DSN (Dumb silly nurse) The idea of carb counting and MDI is so that you can adjust your insulin to your own dietary needs. So eat as you would normally eat.