Undeclared Hypos

[nightowl]

Hello everyone, new to the board, and registered particularly to ask advice on a rather difficult subject.

If you were aware of a diabetic who was experiencing severe hypos but not declaring them to the DVLA as they didn't want to put their licence in jeopardy, what would you do?

By severe hypos, I mean sometimes being reduced to a state of utter confusion, being unable to communicate other than with a grunt, foaming at the mouth etc.

It is a moral dillemma and one which I know I will have to deal with somehow but I'm just not sure how or what to do.

I am completely sympathetic to the minefield that is driving for people with diabetes as I have other friends and family who are diabetic but my worry is that this person is acting irresponsibly and is an accident waiting to happen, and if I do nothing I could one day be sat here in distress that this person has put themselves or others in danger and I could have done something to prevent it.

Any advice or comments would be very gratefully received.

Thank you.

 

[ypauly]

I would tell that person why I think they are being stupid and tell them not to druve until thier levels are under control. If they play ball everybody is happy if they get stubborn or silly about it I would the tell them that I would tell the DVLA with every intention of doing that.

 

[Northerner]

Hi, welcome to the forum 🙂 Such a dilemma, but similar in many ways to knowing someone who repeatedly drives under the influence of drink or drugs - how would they feel if the caused an accident that ruined other lives? Hope you can find a way to convince them not to drive until they can achieve good control, testing regularly and not driving if there is a danger of a low.

 

[Steff]

If you were aware of a diabetic who was experiencing severe hypos but not declaring them to the DVLA as they didn't want to put their licence in jeopardy, what would you do?




.

Well I think the answer to that is simple nightowl there selfishness is putting other unaware road users at risk and members of the public whom could be crossing a road where this Person is experiencing a hypo and fatally injur them.if you can't persuade this person to inform the Dvla you need to inform them,surely you could not live with your conscience if something terrible was to happen

To be frank you knowing about this and not doing anything is nearly as bad as the person themselves

 

[nightowl]

To be frank you knowing about this and not doing anything is nearly as bad as the person themselves

I couldn't agree more, which is why I think I am here tonight.

I have been torn for a while now about this and feel ever more uncomfortable that by doing nothing I am somehow complicit in this person's behaviour, and it doesn't sit well with me at all.

I do know and completely understand how upset this person would be should they have their licence taken away and reading some of the posts on here about loss of licences doesn't make it any easier.

I think in my heart of hearts I know what to do, but having to even contemplate taking such action is not easy.

How would I go about advising the DVLA that I had concerns about somebody's fitness to drive?

 

[Steff]

Hi nightowl

I feel for you im not in the situation so it's easy for me to throw advice your way when it's you who s in this situation.

I see from your previous post in the last paragraph you know in your heart it's right to tell them

Most people with half a brain would say Dvla must be informed put yourself in the shoes of that dreaded knock on the door to some poor unsuspecting family who have lost a loved one due to your persons negligence and stupidity


Ps I can't help regarding telling Dvla as I'm a non driver but sure someone here will know


Good luck please keep us updated

 

[Northerner]

Good luck in making your decision 🙂

 

[Steff]

Hi again sorry

This is totally upto you and you don't need to say but is this a family member of yours,not that that makes a lot of diffirence just curious

 

[Copepod]

The deciding features for the DVLA are the seriousness of the hypoglycaemia, for which their definition is needing help from another person, plus hypo awareness ie does the person know when they're getting low blood sugar.

Even if a licence is taken away, a person can reapply when / if they regain control of their hypoglycaemia.

Best of wishes to you for making the right decision.

 

[nightowl]

Good luck in making your decision 🙂

thank you

It's an incredibly easy decision to make really I suppose, it's really just a case of me wrestling with my conscience over reporting someone who may well lose their driving licence as opposed to dealing with the knowledge that this person could kill innocent people and I should have done something about it.

I suppose the bottom line is, if this person were doing drugs or drinking I wouldn't hesitate to phone PC Plod and drop them in it from a great height. My dilemma lies in the fact that this person isn't a bad person and desperately doesn't want to lose their licence, which I'm sure every diabetic in the land would sympathise with, but their hypos can be so severe that they could well kill someone whilst at the wheel, which is the overriding factor for me and for most people I would guess.

 

[nightowl]

Hi again sorry

This is totally upto you and you don't need to say but is this a family member of yours,not that that makes a lot of diffirence just curious

No, not a family member, I wouldn't allow any member of my family to behave so irresponsibly. I only wish this person's family felt the same as I do.

 

[nightowl]

The deciding features for the DVLA are the seriousness of the hypoglycaemia, for which their definition is needing help from another person, plus hypo awareness ie does the person know when they're getting low blood sugar.

Even if a licence is taken away, a person can reapply when / if they regain control of their hypoglycaemia.

Best of wishes to you for making the right decision.

Thank you for you good wishes, they are much appreciated.

Can I just ask you to clarify a few points please:

needing help from another person - is that a medical person? or would that also include a friend having to rub gel onto the person's gums or put sweets in their mouth as they don't have the coordination to do it themselves?

awareness - this person is often well on the way to being very hypo by the time they realise what's going on, I would say awareness is not brilliant.

thankfully this person has never had an accident whilst driving, although they have been found in a severe hypo state at the side of the road before and has clearly pulled over whilst having or beginning to have a hypo.

 

[Copepod]

Please can I suggest you read this page, plus the pages linked from it, to cover the official views of driving and diabetes? http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/News_Landing_Page/DVLA-issues-new-driving-guidelines/

It's best to rely on publicly available official advice in making your decision.

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Night owl,
Do you know this persons GP?
If so drop them a line and say concern for wellfare explain what is happening and ask them to sort it.

DVLA. To report them you need to write to them giving them as much detail as you can.
Unless this persons GP knows about the hypos he can not act or tell the DVLA, when if they write to him so first port of call would be the GP.

The fact someone is having to treat this person's hypos in the way you discribe means no awareness of hypos which is an instant ban anyway as is the way he is being helped.

If it were me then yes I would drop him in it from a height as this person could kill someone.

 

[margie]

The problem is that when the DVLA investigate unless the person admits to having hypos that they can't treat themselves or their Dr is aware there is little they can do.

If someone is admitted to hospital with a severe hypo or has an accident caused by a hypo then the DVLA will be made aware.

If someone is reported to the DVLA then the DVLA are meant to ensure that the identity of the person being reported is kept confidential.

Good luck

 

[nightowl]

And that is exactly what this person won't admit to margie, they don't declare hypos to their gp so they are unaware.

They have even had hypos in shops and shop staff have called an ambulance and they've refused to get in as they know this would be reported to their consultant/gp, and then got in their car and driven home after having some assistance from shop staff with sugar etc.

I don't know who the gp is pumper_sue but I will be making some discreet enquiries I think and will then give them a ring and share my concerns. If they then report to the DVLA at least I will know that I've done what I could.

Thank you all for reassuring me that I would be doing the right thing by doing something rather than nothing, if you follow me. I know it's the right thing to do to ensure that nobody is hurt by this person but it is an awful thing to have to do to somebody. Thankfully it won't affect their job as they can walk to their workplace and to the shops etc so my conscience is fairly clear that way! Doesn't make me feel like a very nice person, but I know it's for the best.

Thanks again.

Nightowl

 

[HOBIE]

Hi , why is life so hard at times ? If it where me i would tell Gp or person who signs off paperwork for licence. Only you knows what to do. Dont forget he or she is not doing it on purpose. GOOD LUCK 🙂

 

[trophywench]

Hobie - not everyone has a medical professional sign off their licence application or renewal. I passed my test in 1985 and this year for the first time ever, there was a medical inquest!

I hated it, LOL

But the thing is bearing in mind you have to have a meter with a memory, then now - no GP or consultant should sign to say No this person hasn't had any hypos unless they've actually seen some proof, should they? And to know if they've been assisted, well in theory they can't know that unless it was an ambulance. But what if you don't actually test anyway?

The whole case is based on Uberrima Fides - Utmost Good Faith. Rather like insurance in fact - if you lie on your proposal form, it doesn't matter that the lie doesn't have any bearing on the claim - eg if you omit to say your roof is made of thatch and your house is broken into, nothing to do with the thatch - they can still chuck the claim out once they know you've deliberately lied !

So if you lie on your licence application, that means you have no licence. And if you have no licence then you have no motor insurance.

So it's all quite a lot more far reaching than whether you happen to have an accident, isn't it?

If I was having problems like that with my Diabetes then I'd want to sort it out which is totally possible in this day and age - so the person concerned is being ridiculous in EVERY way.

I vote you just tell the DVLA.

 

[HOBIE]

Hi trophywench, every 3 years (max) you get interigated. Who signs yours off cos mine is my GP. 🙂

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Hi trophywench, every 3 years (max) you get interigated. Who signs yours off cos mine is my GP. 🙂

In all the years I have been driving, my GP's has never had a form from dvla or any comunication from them. (Except for first provisional)