Could i be causing harm to myself ?

[Jennywren]

I'd never thought id be saying this after struggling so many years with high blood sugar since i have been on pump bs have greatly improved and at night times whenever i check or get up my blood sugars are between 2.3 and 3.6 but because i suffer hypo unawareness i get no symptoms so dont wake up with the hypo just if need a wee , when i get up in the morning still same sort of figures , so i think i am hoovering around these numbers all night is this safe or could this cause long term damage ? i know there was something about constent hypos .I know it may seem strange but after years and years of hypos having such lower tight control is quite exciting and i dont want to go above certain levels .

 

[margie]

Hi Jenny I can't really answer the question - you would be best to ask your DSN or consultant. As you are concerned as to what is happening over night - could you try some basal testing and adjust things or maybe see if your DSN or consultant would be prepared to let you use a CGM so that the extent of things could be measured.

 

[Northerner]

Jenny, I do understand the desire and attraction of getting levels in the low end of the desired range, but if you are consistently going below that 'safe' level of 3.5-4.0 then you really do need to change your overnight basals to bring them up to around 5.0 or above. Having overnight levels in the 5-6 range, if you can achieve it, is perfectly good, but I personally feel anything below 4.5 at any time in the night should ring lots of very loud alarm bells, as you don't know how low you might actually be going.

Besides the risk of going so low that you might not be getting sufficient glucose to supply your brain, repeated lows will stress your system. There are reports that lots of hypos can cause memory problems and, well, it's just not what your brain is designed for.

Please make a concerted effort to get those overnight levels up! 🙂

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Hi Jenny,
in answer to your question. Yes you are doing yourself harm.
Obviously your basal is way out so you need to do some basal testing.
If you are struggleing to work out what needs changing then do your basal tests and put them in readable form in the pumping section then the pumpers can suggest things to try. 🙂

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I agree with Sue and Alan, from what I can gather sustained hypos are no good for the brain. The sooner you can tweak levels to stay above 4 all night the better - even if that means running slightly higher than you'd like for a while.

 

[FM001]

100% you are doing damage to yourself. Such low levels whilst sleeping is potentially dangerous and could lead to a diabetic coma if your levels continued to drop through the night, try and keep away from lows like this and you could see your hypo awareness return at some point.

 

[Phil65]

I'd never thought id be saying this after struggling so many years with high blood sugar since i have been on pump bs have greatly improved and at night times whenever i check or get up my blood sugars are between 2.3 and 3.6 but because i suffer hypo unawareness i get no symptoms so dont wake up with the hypo just if need a wee , when i get up in the morning still same sort of figures , so i think i am hoovering around these numbers all night is this safe or could this cause long term damage ? i know there was something about constent hypos .I know it may seem strange but after years and years of hypos having such lower tight control is quite exciting and i dont want to go above certain levels .

Hi Jenny,

In my opinion your basal rates are pretty high at night, we are both quite new to the pump and unless you do lots of fasting tests (especially the night time fasting)you will not really know where you are. I too have lost 'dramatic' hypo warning signs as my control has got much better and maybe the fact that I have had too many 'mild' hypoes as well is probably why my warning signs have lessened. It has taken me ages to realize that I don't need much basal at night (look at my basal thread) in comparison to other times of the day where I need a fair bit. I set my alarm for 3am every night and tested for a about a week until I found my levels stabalized....often I was sleeping through hypoes. I have reduced my night basals hugely and now my control is so much better! Maybe you need to reduce your basal before bed and during the night. 🙂

 

[Ellie Jones]

As said concerning pump adjustments..

One of the reasons of your hypo unawareness is due to these low level hypo's.. The more times you suffer a mild hypo the body becomes used to functioning at these low levels so doesn't produce any symptoms to suggest that the body is going to start to struggle, Symptoms won't start showing until the body starts to struggle to function.. And as you know gives either no warning or so little warning that you haven't got time to treat and avoid the medical emergency..

But sometimes running a control range above your normal range, does kick awareness back in, and you've got to weigh up the impact of a month or two running slightly higher is often Less than that of running at too a low level and the overall impact of running at a low level on quality of life etc.

At one time it was consider mild hypo's only had a short term effect during the actual hypo and no long term effect on the diabetic.

But with major improvements in home monitoring and CGM's, recent ongoing research is now starting to suggest that even though mild hypo's don't seem to show visible medium impact, they can have an acclimating impact long term.. Causing memory problems and/or dementia in later years!

 

[Cumbrianlass]

I'd never thought id be saying this after struggling so many years with high blood sugar since i have been on pump bs have greatly improved and at night times whenever i check or get up my blood sugars are between 2.3 and 3.6 but because i suffer hypo unawareness i get no symptoms so dont wake up with the hypo just if need a wee , when i get up in the morning still same sort of figures , so i think i am hoovering around these numbers all night is this safe or could this cause long term damage ? i know there was something about constent hypos .I know it may seem strange but after years and years of hypos having such lower tight control is quite exciting and i dont want to go above certain levels .

Hi Jenny, I have been on my pump for 4 months now. I was suspecting that I was suffering from night time hypo's - so I did hourly basal testing through the night. The first night I missed the hypo as I slept though 2-4am and missed the 3am one - but the second time I did it I saw that I was hypo. I knew I needed to stop it happening and reduce my basals so contacted my DSN for advice. We pulled my basals right back, as it was better for me to be a bit higher and safer than risk going low. The clinic then also arranged for me to go on a CGM so we could get a picture of what was happening during the night as the night time testing was really taking its toll on me. So that might be something you could ask for.

However from the tests that you have done - you have got clear indication that you are hypoing during the night. So I would be really tempted to reduce you basals by a good chunk possibly from 10pm through the night (i suffer from DP so have to start to increase my rates again at about 5am) and try and give your body some time to recover. Your poor liver will be besides itself trying to pump out a some glucose for you every night, and I bet you aren't feel too great either - I know I wasn't.

I really appreciate you wanting to have tight control after years of high BGs, but it also needs to be safe for you. The great thing about being on the pump is the flexibilty it gives you and the ability to tweak to try and get rid of some of the diabetes nasties like hypos in the night that on MDI we often had to suffer.

Take Care and Good Luck.

 

[Robster65]

Can't really offer advice but want to add my support for what's been said and hope you can find a basal rate to give you 5s through the night.🙂

Rob

 

[Jennywren]

Got hos on friday , memory loss etc a big worry as both my grand parrents died from alzheimers and dementia

 

[FM001]

Got hos on friday , memory loss etc a big worry as both my grand parrents died from alzheimers and dementia

Sorry to hear that, both are dreadful conditions and the sooner they find a cure the better.

 

[cherrypie]

Hi Jennywren,

As an observer to your thread and not a Type1 I would be interested to know if this started when you began low carbing?
I found this article, cannot comment on it's accuracy as I do not use insulin.
http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevention/hypos.htm#losing

As for the genetics involved with dementia, it is extremely rare so please do not worry too much.

http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=168

Hope all goes well at the Hospital for you on Friday.

 

[Jennywren]

Hi Jennywren,

As an observer to your thread and not a Type1 I would be interested to know if this started when you began low carbing?
I found this article, cannot comment on it's accuracy as I do not use insulin.
http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevention/hypos.htm#losing

As for the genetics involved with dementia, it is extremely rare so please do not worry too much.

http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=168

Hope all goes well at the Hospital for you on Friday.

Thanks for the info Cherrypie it made interesting reading , Hypos do get worse when low carbing , i have suffered with hypo unawareness for about 15 years now and have had diabetes for 31 .

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Thanks for the info Cherrypie it made interesting reading , Hypos do get worse when low carbing , i have suffered with hypo unawareness for about 15 years now and have had diabetes for 31 .

Jenny,
hypos do not get worse with low carbing. 🙂
All that has happened is your ratios have changed as have your basal needs. IE you need a lot less insulin.
So you need a complete overhaul of your basal and bolus plus your correction factors.

 

[trophywench]

I think as others have said, you must reduce your overnight basal levels.

When was the last time you tested your basals for the whole 24 hours?

I'd advise you to do the lot before your appointment with hosp. Usual 6 hour blocks, testing at least every 2 hours .....