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Food and mmol/L values

OldBuzzard

OldBuzzard

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
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He/Him
Being relatively new to diabetes, I may not have managed to search past threads totally, so I may have missed just such a thread, but if there are none, then perhaps I can encourage people to start a new one on this topic.
I've noted that there is a thread on what foodstuffs cause readings to skyrocket, but this is different, please.

So I'd be very interested to know if there is any way that I could know by how much a given quantity of any foodstuff raises my mmol/L?

It seems that my breakfast (usually oats) doesn't cause much of a rise, but some dry biscuits (digestives or rich tea) do seem to cause a considerable rise - but is there a way of knowing how much of any normal day-to-day food is safe or not liable to raise my figures too much?
I'd guess that those of us using a finger prick system will have trouble trying to offer figures, but those with constatnt monitoring may well be able to help - I hope! I may be naive there!

For example:
A portion or weight of cereals (please specify)
A portion or weight of green vegetables
A portion or weight of potatoes
A portion or weight of meat
A portion of pie of some variety, both meat and sweet
A portion or weight of fruit - tinned or fresh
A half pint (or 500ml) of milk or other liquid
One biscuit
One tea cake
One apple
One banana
And so on...

I can but hope that such items can be broken down into quantities and values...
Thank you
Chris
 
I don’t think what you’re hoping for is possible, @OldBuzzard, there are simply too many variables. Not everyone has the same insulin sensitivity, or they may lack a first phase insulin response, so their levels rise, but then fall later. Time of day may affect sensitivity, too. Also the ,ore that is u derstood ablut the gut, the more it seems we don’t know. Some people aren’t troubled with a rise from pulses, for example, other people seem to be able to wring every last vestige of carb out of them.
Most people do their own testing, to se what effect different foods have on them, and may try to keep some sort of record, but even with an individual, things change so much with the amount of exercise taken that day, the weather (I’m not joking) whether you’re fighting off an infection somewhere in your body..there is a list somewhere of 42 things that can affect insulin needs.
 
It’s individual @OldBuzzard The best way to find out is to test for yourself. There’s no list such as you suggest because it depends on too many variables. Your questions should be, “How much does X grams of cereal raise MY blood sugar?”, etc. Then you find the answer by testing, bearing in mind that just gives you a rough idea, as other things like illness or time of day might affect things too.

(Robin beat me to it!)
 
Hi

Robin and Inka​

Damn - I had a thought that such might be the case.
I also understand that knowledge of the gut and it's workings is a far from exact science - which rather knocks my plans on the head!
Nevertheless, I'm still hoping that I might get some information from my question, even if nowhere near as many replies as I might have expected.
But even a big range of personal readings might help me to create some kind of scale, so that I and others might be able to enjoy a decent meal without things going too pear-shaped!
 
@OldBuzzard I think you are expecting everyone to be the same.
Our insulin sensitivity can be different for different people and at different times. For example, my insulin sensitivity is greater after exercise and higher first thing in the morning.
The other thing to consider is the full meal rather than individual items because fat eaten with carbs can slow down the absorption of carbs giving your pancreas longer to react. For example, you may find an apple eaten with a dollop of cream raises your BG less than an apple in isolation.
And then there are things that affect one person's BG which may have no impact on someone else.
Porridge is a common thing which is discussed - one person may find it sends their BG into orbit whereas someone else will have little impact on their BG.

This is why it is important to measure yourself to find out what foods your body can tolerate.
It is typically said that a rise of less than 2 (or 3 mmol/l - there seems to be a difference of opinion) taken 2 hours after eating means your body can tolerate it. YOu will need to take a reading just before eating to compare.
So "pear shaped" is anything that raises your BG more than 2 (or 3) mmol/l
 
Good luck with that!
The same meal can have a different effect on me based on how stressed I am, how much sleep I've had, how much beer I've had, what time of days. and whether I've been exercising.

Even in people without T2D insulin sensitivity changes throughout the day due to hormonal changes.

I can sometimes go and have a relatively high carb Wagamama and see only a small rise in the afternoon, but in the morning I've seen it shoot up with a low carb breakfast (And strangely, with oats I saw a small rise and a massive drop.)
 
Hello helli

Thanks for your reply. That's more or less why I said that I was relatively new here - I'm still learning a lot and there is still so much more to learn.
Of course, I was somewhat unaware that food can affect us at different times and in different conditions although I did know that some hard gardening would bring my own readings down substantially but I perhaps thought that it was just me and my body. Now however, I'm learning that everyone is very different when it comes to responses to food; to exercise; to sleep, etc.
Does make for quite a lot of unknowns in the life of a diabetic, doesn't it?
 
OldBuzzard said:
Hi

Robin and Inka​

Damn - I had a thought that such might be the case.
I also understand that knowledge of the gut and it's workings is a far from exact science - which rather knocks my plans on the head!
Nevertheless, I'm still hoping that I might get some information from my question, even if nowhere near as many replies as I might have expected.
But even a big range of personal readings might help me to create some kind of scale, so that I and others might be able to enjoy a decent meal without things going too pear-shaped!
Click to expand...

Any information/numbers will be so broad as to be meaningless. Moreover, they might actually mislead you. For example, some people can eat porridge and tolerate it well whereas others merely have to have a tiny portion and their blood sugar soars.

It’s all individual, I’m afraid. You need to find the answers that apply to you.
 
OldBuzzard said:
Now however, I'm learning that everyone is very different when it comes to responses to food; to exercise; to sleep, etc.
Does make for quite a lot of unknowns in the life of a diabetic, doesn't it?
Click to expand...
It does make managing diabetes a bit more of an art than a science (or a bit of both).
The 42 factors that affect BG are often referenced on the forum. I suspect there maybe more but this is what we are referring to https://diabetesresearchconnection.org/42-factors-affect-blood-glucose/

Regarding the reduced insulin sensitivity (or increased insulin resistance) in the morning.
You may see this referred to as Dawn Phenomenon. This is something that happens to most people. It is only those of us with diabetes who are "lucky" enough to see it.
At the start of the day (for some of us this is when we are still asleep but others experience it once they wake), our helpful liver dumps glucose into our blood to give us the energy we need to get out of bed and hunt a hairy mammoth for breakfast. A healthy pancreas would respond to this glucose dump with an insulin dump to make the glucose to energy conversion. A less healthy pancreas like you and I have may be sluggish with the insulin dump causing a BG rise.
 
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Thanks for that, helli

I was uttterly unaware of the Dawn Phenomenon, but in a way that confuses me more.

I'm up at about 5 - 5.30 every morning (sleep doesn't like me), after which I go through an hour long process of watering our tortoises and opening their sheds and cleaning up old cat food and providing fresh to our four cats.
Only then do I set about sorting out my breakfast and once things are ready then I prick myself and read the mmol/L.

For this past month and since I started on insulin in May, my first-thing-in-the-morning readings have averaged 5.2 (my overall average is 5.7) so I've experienced none of the mammoth steak desires so far.
What's more, the relatively few after-breakfast readings I've taken have averaged 8.3 - a rise, that's for sure, but not massive.
Perhaps that's why I'm always reluctant to rise, despite a) pressure from my bladder and b) from my brain which tells me to get up.

Chris
 
Hi helli

You certainly did! 😛

Sorry - I should have taken that comment more onboard - I guess that's it's very relevent with everyone here.

Sadly that makes things bloody awkward, doesn't it? No chance to compare like for like among people on any aspect of diabetes really - somewhat nullifies my recent questions then!
Never mind - I hear what you say and I'll take note - but even so, the questions will remain in my mind.
However, it would appear that self-testing will be the best approach, so I'll have to discard the "four readings a day" system and spend perhaps a week with culinary experiments. Maybe sometime soon - not right now - the weather (heat waves) might well foul up my plans and results.

That's far from the perfect idea though - I'm a lousy cook at best!:D

Cheers
Chris
 
Hiya Inka

I'm on Humulin 1 - isophane insulin. 14 units am and 12 units pm.
Also on Metformin 500mg twice daily
Hope that's all you wanted - no idea if that's enough or just a partial description. Think it's right...

Cheers
Chris
 
Just to be precise it will be Humulin i (the letter) rather than Humulin 1 (number) but yes, that is the info we were after. Again what insulin you take, how much and when can also affect readings. That insulin in designed to mop up the glucose that your liver trickles out day and night. Dawn Phenomenon or (Foot on the Floor) has been mentioned when our liver chucks out extra glucose from it's stores to give us energy to start the day, but it trickles out smaller amounts steadily throughout the day and night and your Humulin i is there to help deal with that. I think of the liver as a sort of power back up battery. When we are eating food, it switches off because that food is providing glucose as it is digested, but then it kicks back in again. Those of us who are Type 1 need to take a shorter acting meal time insulin to deal with the glucose from carbs released from the food we eat, but in your case it sounds like your pancreas is managing to supply enough insulin to cover food providing you are careful about what you eat, and the Humulin i is covering your liver output. If your Humulin i doses are optimised then it should hold you steady in the absence of food. If the dose isn't quite optimised then it may be covering some of your food too.
 
That’s what I was asking @OldBuzzard 🙂 That’s actually Humulin i (that is, a letter ‘i’ not a number 1 - the i is for isophane), which is a slow-acting basal/background insulin.

The reason i asked was that if you were also on a fast-acting/bolus insulin before your meals, you could use a meal ratio to calculate what amount of the fast-acting insulin would ‘cover’ your carbs. I know that’s not exactly what you’re asking in this thread, but it is related. From what you’ve written elsewhere, it sounds like you’re doing well.
 
Duh!!! Me and my definitions. Really sorry - but I was simply reading what they'd put on my discharge notes - and it actually says exactly this - Humulin I 18 units... (Well down from 18 units now - just 14 and 12 and coming down again in a week or so)
That's why I ended up with a 1 rather than an i - it was their way of displaying it.

Cheers
Chris
 
OldBuzzard said:
Sadly that makes things bloody awkward, doesn't it? No chance to compare like for like among people on any aspect of diabetes really - somewhat nullifies my recent questions then!
Click to expand...
While we're all different, I've found a number of traits that I share with various other forum users so I can still get useful advice about certain aspects of diabetes. It's still trial and error as there's no guarantee what works for another person will work for me. After 3 months here I'm getting a feeling for what might be most promising.
OldBuzzard said:
However, it would appear that self-testing will be the best approach, so I'll have to discard the "four readings a day" system and spend perhaps a week with culinary experiments. Maybe sometime soon - not right now - the weather (heat waves) might well foul up my plans and results.
Click to expand...
You don't need to test every meal, I typically test 5-7 per week, focusing on new meals or those particularly high in carbs. Bear in mind food is not the only factor affecting blood glucose so you may get different results on different days with the same meal.
 
Hiya debs248

You're an awkward lot, aren't you? No promises of easy learning or easy meal value identification (badly put) or of even every day being the same! :(
Every single thing can be different with different people on different days.
Absolute trial and error as you say - what hope does a newby have of finding his/her way round diabetes? LOL

Nah - don't worry - it's not you - it's the disease....
It must be one of the most common yet most elusive diseases - elusive in that it's so variable with so many unknowns.

Nevertheless, there's still a degree of understanding in ourselves, so long as we look at ourselves critically and make use of what we find. It may not just be enough to keep your record book up to date, but perhaps we also need to note how our bodies react to various foods and drinks and situations.
Makes it all quite interesting so long as it doesn't overwhelm you.

Regards
Chris
 
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