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Help needed please

Tillagirl

New Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
I really don’t know what to do. I have been type 2 for some time and was in denial. I managed to lose a lot of weight in lockdown and reversed my diabetes. I was the poster girl for my local surgery. Oh for those heady days. I really can’t take metformin it wipes me out and as a self employed person I can’t be in bed clutching my stomach all day. Over time I have regained weight and with it my high blood results. My latest blood result HBA1c came back at 119. I do not want to take meds and am under a lot of pressure from both my doctor and diabetic nurse to take glicazide? I really want the time to go back to low carb and see if I can manage this without drugs. I feel browbeaten and bullied although I know I have the right to refuse. Generally I feel well - I swim and walk and exercise regularly. Please people share your experiences of this drug. My diabetic nurse says it ‘spanks the pant’ and squeezes more insulin out whereas my reading suggests my cells don’t need more insulin just to open up to what’s already there and that this will just end up making me into a type one. I do realise that my health advisers are trying to do what they think is good for me but I think they are on one track and are totally resistant to any other way.
I am very confused and would like to actually have information from those who have experience. I’m grateful for any input.
Thank you - Julie x
 
this will just end up making me into a type one

Type 1 is an auto-immune disease and very different from Type 2. It’s nothing to do with Gliclazide as it’s an attack by the immune system.

Perhaps you could try a low dose of Gliclazide for a trial period?
 
Hi @Tillagirl. I took gliclazide in the early days and it worked. No side effects, it just brought my blood glucose down whilst I worked on my lower carb diet. Eventually stopped taking it and my blood glucose levels went up a bit straightaway. After a year or so, my levels started to creep back up so I started on dapagliflozin and that corrected things.

That's my experience. I rather agree with you that the medics can be a bit blinkered but when it comes to general practice they would not be able to cope if they were not. I find it more productive all round to work with my GP taking on board their suggestions even if they have a narrow viewpoint.

My though for you is that you go with their suggestions in the short term whilst you work on your low carb diet as your long term solution to lose the weight. An Hba1c of 119 does need some attention and tackling it from several directions seems sensible.

Final thought... you did it before, you can do it again and if it needs medication rather than a lockdown to kick things off, then go with it.
 
Yes, just because you start medication doesn't mean you are always on it. If this is one you can start and then come off of again in future then it may be useful as a helping hand.
If you really don't want to go on it can you manage the change you need on your own?
 
@Tillagirl
Have you put on weight again since lockdown?

My HbA1c was in three figures too. I followed Prof Roy Taylor's advice I went on to an 800 calorie real food diet and got my FBG down to 5.8 mmol/L in 7 days and then continued to remission.

That might work for you too. I will elaborate if you are interested.

Otherwise I suggest you follow DocB and other advice.
 
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Hi @Tillagirl I was put on Gliclazide last July as my HbA1c was 133 and metformin on its own was struggling to help get blood glucose down. I had very little side effects. Dodgy tummy for a couple of days each time dosage increased but that could have just been the metformin. I started at 40mg Gliclazide initially. No side effects with latest increase except potential hypos.
As already mentioned you could try a lower dose together with diet changes and see how you get on.
My hope is to get my HbA1c down to under 50 and start reducing my medication. I prefer not to take medication long term but I accept that to help me manage my diabetes from where it was at diagnosis to where I need to be means medication now.
You have done very well in the past so trust yourself that you are capable of reaching the target you have set yourself.
 
@Tillagirl
Have you put on weight again since lockdown?

My HbA1c was in three figures too. I followed Prof Roy Taylor's advice I went on to an 800 calorie real food diet and got my FBG down to 5.8 mmol/L in 7 days and then continued to remission.

That might work for you too. I will elaborate if you are interested.

Otherwise I suggest you follow DocB and other advice.
Yes please to more info - I was hoping someone would say they have done this with diet. I’m not sure I could sustain 800 cals a day forever though
 
@Tillagirl
Have you put on weight again since lockdown?

My HbA1c was in three figures too. I followed Prof Roy Taylor's advice I went on to an 800 calorie real food diet and got my FBG down to 5.8 mmol/L in 7 days and then continued to remission.

That might work for you too. I will elaborate if you are interested.

Otherwise I suggest you follow DocB and other advice.
My lowest weight - where I’d reversed diabetes was 11st 4 and my current weight is 12-10
 
People have tried different ways and have to find a way which is both enjoyable and sustainable. Many have found a low carb is one approach which can become a new way of eating. Have a look at this link to see if it is a regime that might suit you. https://lowcarbfreshwell.com/
Your level is quite high so important that you try by whatever means to get it down, if you do opt for the gliclazide then you do need to have some carbs but the 130g per day as the link I mentioned is based on is likely OK.
 
Yes please to more info - I was hoping someone would say they have done this with diet. I’m not sure I could sustain 800 cals a day forever though
The 800 calories (Newcastle/Fast 800 diet) is just a short term fast weight loss program. Usually 12 weeks to make your body burn off the visceral fat around your liver and pancreas. Some GP practices can refer you onto the program as it is now a recognised option for Diabetes management.... The "Pathway to Remission Program", but I am not sure you would qualify with your HbA1c being so high and I can understand them wanting to start you on meds with levels that high
 
Yes please to more info - I was hoping someone would say they have done this with diet. I’m not sure I could sustain 800 cals a day forever though
@Tillagirl

I have just put up a new thread 'EASD 2024: Prof Roy Taylor's Claude Bernard lecture on the causes of Type 2 diabetes' - and run out of time for now.

Please have a look at the lecture itself and pay attention slide 36/85. That's shows the reason for the 800 cals per day for a few weeks. Diet can do more for you than medication in a short time so well worth a try.

I will tell you what I did, and would do now, later.

 
@Tillagirl

I have just put up a new thread 'EASD 2024: Prof Roy Taylor's Claude Bernard lecture on the causes of Type 2 diabetes' - and run out of time for now.

Please have a look at the lecture itself and pay attention slide 36/85. That's shows the reason for the 800 cals per day for a few weeks. Diet can do more for you than medication in a short time so well worth a try.

I will tell you what I did, and would do now, later.

Thank you so much I’m heading off to my meeting with diabetic nurse now and will see what happens. Even if she prescribed I can hold fire till I’ve tried it x
 
@Tillagirl. Did you have a good meeting with your diabetic nurse.

Catching up, a summary of Professor Taylor's work and lecture is that we Type 2 diabetics need to deal with the excess fat in our liver and pancreas to get ourselves back to normal (HbA1c < 39). This depends on the capacity of the beta cells in our pancreas to work normally again after the excess fat has gone; the chances of success seem to be 90%-100% for prediabetics and the newly diagnosed, and progressively less according to the duration and severity of the disease.

My background
My GP did not say a 'fatty liver' is the precursor to Type 2 when she phoned say my HbAic was 104. However she was much more concerned about the damage that hemochromatosis (a correctly suspected diagnosis from the high ferritin levels in my blood test) might have done to my liver. She was prescribing the maximum dose of Metformin, arranging an appointment, and requesting an ultrasound scan of my liver thus linking my Type 2 to the state of my liver anyway.

I did not want to suffer any of the side effects of metformin, looked at my wife's copy of Michael Mosley's The 8-week blood sugar diet and read his description of the Newcastle Study. This concluded Professor Taylor was astonished. "Amazingly more definitive than I ever dreamt it would be." Once I had downloaded and read Professor Taylor's Life without Diabetes Type 2 and seen his 'famous' diagram my mind was made up, worth a try as you say:

1742037569317.png

I could not face the prospect of 8 weeks of shakes and decided to follow a real food version of the Newcastle Diet based on the high quality protein and vegetables listed in the diet leaflet. At my appointment I told the GP what I intended, and after saying she had never heard of Professor Taylor and reciting the Nice guidance on Metformin, she gave me an AccuCheck to test my blood glucose.

The next day after the scan the radiologist said, in a matter of fact way, 'You have a fatty liver, treat it by diet'. Sage advice for all Predabetics and Type 2 Diabetics, I'd say. It was the confirmation I needed.

What I did (and still do)
My problem was total ignorance of dietary matters and no dietitian. Cronometer was my salvation. It was consistently rated the best tracking app for nutrients, vitamins and minerals so I downloaded the free version and put up with occasional ad. I enter enter grams eaten of each food and Cronometer does all the calculations. It helps me keep protein, iron [hemochromatosis], carbs, fats and calories in my target ranges as well as making adjustments for vitamins, folate, calcium, potassium etc.

My wife wanted to lose some weight and we decided to have the same evening meal. She shops for fish, meat and vegetables, berries, dairy and nuts as well as keeping chickens for eggs and a stock pot on the hob. I frequent Aldi for cabbages, cauliflowers, onions, peppers, carrot, swede, mushrooms etc plus yogurt and cheese, canned fish, tomatoes, beans, seeds etc.

That provides the ingredients for my lunch, typically a chopped salad and a stir fry (or a microwaved equivalent), and our evening meal - I look after air fried vegetables, omelettes and salads (mainly lettuce).

For convenience and to extend my overnight 'fat burning window' I skip breakfast, effectively 16:8 intermittent fasting. On office days I sometimes skip lunch as well, a sort of 5:2 maintenance diet.

My wife was able to wear the dress she wore for our daughters wedding over 30 years ago. I lost 22 kg over 6 months, got into the trousers I used to wear decades ago, and ran a 5km park run before injuring a knee in a fit of enthusiasm. My HbA1c is around 35.

I found the biggest challenge is weight maintenance but it's basically quite simple. Make sensible adjustments to your diet and keep weighing yourself to stay on track.

I hope this gives you enough guidance to have a go.

A word of warning. I stuck to 800 calories or less for 13 weeks and a bit more for another 13 weeks, too little for too long, too 'tetchy'. I should have heeded Professor Taylor's advice in the Newcastle Diet leaflet:

It isn’t essential to follow a VLCD to achieve results. Many people havefollowed food-based diets and lost weight gradually over a longer period oftime. The key is taking in fewer calories than you burn. This allows enough weight loss to strip the fat out of the liver and pancreas.

To that end you could look at the following, all helpful:

- Dr Kim Andrews' simple meal planner and diet sheet

Dr David Unwin's diet sheet and Katie Caldesi's cook books:
- https://phcuk.org/wp-content/uploads/A_5_page_low_carb_diet_leaflet_Unwin_2021-converted.pdf
- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reverse-Your-Diabetes-Cookbook/dp/0857838571/

Zoe Harcombe's What should we eat at, not least the weight loss section:
- https://www.zoeharcombe.com/2021/08/what-should-we-eat/

Jonno Proudfoot's Real Meal Revolution books, great low carb cookbooks and guidance for beginners like me:
- https://realmealrevolution.com/the-books/

Good luck
 
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@Tillagirl I was not quite as high on the HbA1c range as you, but it took only three months to drop from 91 to 47 eating a low carb diet. No restrictions other than a maximum of 50 gm of carbs a day - that was my CCLL when doing Atkins, and I lost weight easily - I wasn't even trying to do so.
After 6 months I saw 41, and have had no trouble since.
I did try the shales in the hope of getting HbA1c down into the 30s, but it went up!! Only to 48, but still in the wrong direction.
The HCPs at the local clinic are pleased that I am no longer in the diabetic range, but they have no interest in learning how it was achieved. They do wish other people would do the same though - total lack of joined up thinking.
 
I have just put up a new thread 'EASD 2024: Prof Roy Taylor's Claude Bernard lecture on the causes of Type 2 diabetes' - and run out of time for now

Here’s the link to @JITR ‘s other thread mentioned earlier @Tillagirl - in case you couldn’t find it. Though I see he’s updated you with more if his experiences.

 
Thank you so much I’m heading off to my meeting with diabetic nurse now and will see what happens. Even if she prescribed I can hold fire till I’ve tried it x

Sorry to hear you’ve had a rough time with Metformin @Tillagirl

It works really well for the vast majority, but we do have a few on the forum who just cannot tolerate it, even the SR modified release version.

Reading experiences of other T2s on the forum, it seems that BG-friendly changes to a person’s menu are always beneficial with or without meds. If you do decide to give a medication a try in the short term, just to help kickstart your process, it can be wise to make any changes to your menu gradually and incrementally. Especially as some meds work by changing the way the digestion works, which can mean that a certain mix of macronutrients are expected, and it doesn’t always help to make huge changes all at once. Gradual changes also give the body time to adjust and adapt.

Good luck with whatever approach you decide on. Let us know how your appointment went 🙂
 
My diabetic nurse says it ‘spanks the pant’ and squeezes more insulin out whereas my reading suggests my cells don’t need more insulin just to open up to what’s already there and that this will just end up making me into a type one.

I believe research has shown Sulfonylureas actually slow down beta cell apoptosis and protect them in some way.
They might 'run out' of insulin but they will make more.
There's no evidence that the drug kills them.

Terms like 'Spank the pants' are not useful. I'd refuse to a nurse who told me something like that. Clearly not capable of doing the job.
 
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