Newbie here and another possibly very stupid question……

[Millyjack]

Hi there

I posted a question yesterday about breakfast oats and received some really lovely helpful answers. On everyone’s advice I’m going to start testing myself after meals but I’m slightly confused, and I’m sure this is going to be a stupid question, but if my readings are raised how will I know which part of the meal is spiking my blood sugars? Do I just always assume it’s the carb part, if any, of the meal or does all food have the potential to spike? I’m assuming it does and if so how will I know what’s done it without testing each food separately? Apologies in advance for any stupid questions….

 

[Lucyr]

If you have a meal with multiple carby parts eg pizza, chips and salad then you can assume it is either one of the carbs or that it’s both together that is the problem.

So in that example you’d try the same pizza portion, no chips, double salad

Or you’d try the same chips portion with protein like eggs and veg or salad

The response to those seperate meals would tell you if it’s the pizza that’s the problem, or the chips, or the combination of those foods together.

(I’m not saying all your meals are pizza and chips it’s just an easy example)

 

[Robin]

It’s usually the carbs that cause your blood glucose to rise, especially in the first hour or so after youve eaten. So if you get a large spike or rise after a meal with carbs in, you’re safe to assume it was the carb element that caused it.

The exception is if you’ve had a very low carb meal, in which case the body will process some of the protein and fats into glucose, and this will show on your blood glucose meter, but it normally takes longer, and the rise happens much more slowly than a rise cause by carbs.

On that train of thought, if you have, for example, toast, and you get a certain rise, you may find that if you have the same toast, but with an egg on it, you’ll get a slower rise because the protein in the egg will take longer to digest, and slow down the whole digestion/carb conversion into glucose. So that’s something to bear in mind before deciding you can’t eat a certain food and banishing it from your menus for ever.

 

[rebrascora]

Firstly, it is important to test just before eating as well as 2 hours afterwards. This is to isolate the rise caused by the carbs in the meal as oppose to other factors which affect your BG levels throughout the day and night.

There are 3 macro nutrients.... Carbohydrate, protein and fats.

Carbs are broken down quickly and easily by the digestive system and usually release their glucose during the first 1-2 hours. This is the easiest way for the body to obtain the fuel (glucose) it needs for pretty well all your bodily functions, so if it gets enough glucose from this macro nutrient it doesn't bother trying to get glucose from the other 2, so your spike in the first 2 hours after eating will be down to the carbs in your meal.
Protein can be broken down into glucose if sufficient glucose is not obtained from carbs, however this process takes much longer 2-6 hours and only about 40% of protein is broken down into glucose, so you get a much longer flatter curve from protein release than from carbs.
Fat can also be broken down in the absence of enough carbs but only about 10% of it and it takes even longer than protein, so it is nigh on impossible to see any impact on BG from fat unless it is because it is delaying the digestion of carbs from fatty foods like pizza or pasta in a creamy sauce.

Basically, if your levels spike too high ie. your BG has increased by more than 3mmols 2 hours after your meal then the carbs in the meal are most likely responsible and indeed this is one of the reasons why you test 2 hours after the meal, because protein hasn't started to release then. Generally if you eat a very low carb diet, the pancreas can manage to cover the protein release because it is a very slow and steady release. It is only the likes of myself as a Type 1 who has no appreciable insulin production who will see a rise from protein and only because I have a Constant Glucose Monitor (CGM) which samples my levels every few minutes and I can see them start to drift upwards about 2 hours after a meal and I have to then inject more insulin to deal with that slow steady rise.

 

[Millyjack]

If you have a meal with multiple carby parts eg pizza, chips and salad then you can assume it is either one of the carbs or that it’s both together that is the problem.

So in that example you’d try the same pizza portion, no chips, double salad

Or you’d try the same chips portion with protein like eggs and veg or salad

The response to those seperate meals would tell you if it’s the pizza that’s the problem, or the chips, or the combination of those foods together.

(I’m not saying all your meals are pizza and chips it’s just an easy example)

Thank you for your reply Lucy. I’m trying to avoid many carbs, for example tonight’s a roast but meat, veg and no potatoes, so it will be interesting to see.

 

[CliffH]

Hi there

I posted a question yesterday about breakfast oats and received some really lovely helpful answers. On everyone’s advice I’m going to start testing myself after meals but I’m slightly confused, and I’m sure this is going to be a stupid question, but if my readings are raised how will I know which part of the meal is spiking my blood sugars? Do I just always assume it’s the carb part, if any, of the meal or does all food have the potential to spike? I’m assuming it does and if so how will I know what’s done it without testing each food separately? Apologies in advance for any stupid questions….

I'd never describe anyone as stupid (even if some people's actions (including mine at times) may appear to be stupid) - but I think that it shows more wisdom to tap into the expertise and experience of people on here and to seek to manage your diabetes as well as possible than to carry on blindly. All of us have to become experts from a standing start on our own particular form and experience of diabetes - even if we happen to be diabetes specialists before developing diabetes ourselves.

Anyway, there are plenty of people on here who have much more knowledge than me of 'release times' of different foods. However, I'm sitting here feeling sorry for myself with toothache and unable to do anything, so I'll aim to give you a 'holding' reply until someone better qualified comes along.

You're correct that foods other than carbs can spike you - and different forms of carb will spike to different extents and at different times following eating. So, drinking Lucozade would spike you almost immediately, as it's a very quick way for your body to absorb sugar. That's why I always have a bottle of Lucozade nearby, in case of hypos! However, eating a steak would only spike you (if at all) after a considerable amount of time, as it consists of protein and fat rather than carbs.

Also, different people respond differently to different types of food (even different types of carb) - and each of us will often respond differently at different times of day. Moreover, other factors can intrude: for example, although I'm not eating much atm, my toothache (or perhaps the paracetamol and/or penicillin that I'm taking) is doing something to my body that means that I'm needing much more insulin than usual - or perhaps it's because of the cold weather, or the fact that I'm not doing any exercise currently.

So, it's all about trial and error and consistent monitoring! You may need to try eating more of some foods and less of others in a particular meal, until you've got a clear picture of exactly how your body responds to different foods and under different circumstances.

 

[Lucyr]

Thank you for your reply Lucy. I’m trying to avoid many carbs, for example tonight’s a roast but meat, veg and no potatoes, so it will be interesting to see.

If it works ok then next time you could try one potato and see how that goes etc, till you find right balance

 

[Millyjack]

It’s usually the carbs that cause your blood glucose to rise, especially in the first hour or so after youve eaten. So if you get a large spike or rise after a meal with carbs in, you’re safe to assume it was the carb element that caused it.

The exception is if you’ve had a very low carb meal, in which case the body will process some of the protein and fats into glucose, and this will show on your blood glucose meter, but it normally takes longer, and the rise happens much more slowly than a rise cause by carbs.

On that train of thought, if you have, for example, toast, and you get a certain rise, you may find that if you have the same toast, but with an egg on it, you’ll get a slower rise because the protein in the egg will take longer to digest, and slow down the whole digestion/carb conversion into glucose. So that’s something to bear in mind before deciding you can’t eat a certain food and banishing it from your menus for ever.

Thank you Robin. Yes I’ve been following the Glucose Goddess who pretty much says what you say, protein with the carbs produces a lower spike.

 

[saffron15]

It’s usually the carbs that cause your blood glucose to rise, especially in the first hour or so after youve eaten. So if you get a large spike or rise after a meal with carbs in, you’re safe to assume it was the carb element that caused it.

The exception is if you’ve had a very low carb meal, in which case the body will process some of the protein and fats into glucose, and this will show on your blood glucose meter, but it normally takes longer, and the rise happens much more slowly than a rise cause by carbs.

On that train of thought, if you have, for example, toast, and you get a certain rise, you may find that if you have the same toast, but with an egg on it, you’ll get a slower rise because the protein in the egg will take longer to digest, and slow down the whole digestion/carb conversion into glucose. So that’s something to bear in mind before deciding you can’t eat a certain food and banishing it from your menus for ever.

Thank you. I hadn't realised this. May explain a few odd readings.

 

[Millyjack]

Firstly, it is important to test just before eating as well as 2 hours afterwards. This is to isolate the rise caused by the carbs in the meal as oppose to other factors which affect your BG levels throughout the day and night.

There are 3 macro nutrients.... Carbohydrate, protein and fats.

Carbs are broken down quickly and easily by the digestive system and usually release their glucose during the first 1-2 hours. This is the easiest way for the body to obtain the fuel (glucose) it needs for pretty well all your bodily functions, so if it gets enough glucose from this macro nutrient it doesn't bother trying to get glucose from the other 2, so your spike in the first 2 hours after eating will be down to the carbs in your meal.
Protein can be broken down into glucose if sufficient glucose is not obtained from carbs, however this process takes much longer 2-6 hours and only about 40% of protein is broken down into glucose, so you get a much longer flatter curve from protein release than from carbs.
Fat can also be broken down in the absence of enough carbs but only about 10% of it and it takes even longer than protein, so it is nigh on impossible to see any impact on BG from fat unless it is because it is delaying the digestion of carbs from fatty foods like pizza or pasta in a creamy sauce.

Basically, if your levels spike too high ie. your BG has increased by more than 3mmols 2 hours after your meal then the carbs in the meal are most likely responsible and indeed this is one of the reasons why you test 2 hours after the meal, because protein hasn't started to release then. Generally if you eat a very low carb diet, the pancreas can manage to cover the protein release because it is a very slow and steady release. It is only the likes of myself as a Type 1 who has no appreciable insulin production who will see a rise from protein and only because I have a Constant Glucose Monitor (CGM) which samples my levels every few minutes and I can see them start to drift upwards about 2 hours after a meal and I have to then inject more insulin to deal with that slow steady rise.

Thank you for posting such an informative reply Barbara, that’s just so helpful.

 

[Millyjack]

I'd never describe anyone as stupid (even if some people's actions (including mine at times) may appear to be stupid) - but I think that it shows more wisdom to tap into the expertise and experience of people on here and to seek to manage your diabetes as well as possible than to carry on blindly. All of us have to become experts from a standing start on our own particular form and experience of diabetes - even if we happen to be diabetes specialists before developing diabetes ourselves.

Anyway, there are plenty of people on here who have much more knowledge than me of 'release times' of different foods. However, I'm sitting here feeling sorry for myself with toothache and unable to do anything, so I'll aim to give you a 'holding' reply until someone better qualified comes along.

You're correct that foods other than carbs can spike you - and different forms of carb will spike to different extents and at different times following eating. So, drinking Lucozade would spike you almost immediately, as it's a very quick way for your body to absorb sugar. That's why I always have a bottle of Lucozade nearby, in case of hypos! However, eating a steak would only spike you (if at all) after a considerable amount of time, as it consists of protein and fat rather than carbs.

Also, different people respond differently to different types of food (even different types of carb) - and each of us will often respond differently at different times of day. Moreover, other factors can intrude: for example, although I'm not eating much atm, my toothache (or perhaps the paracetamol and/or penicillin that I'm taking) is doing something to my body that means that I'm needing much more insulin than usual - or perhaps it's because of the cold weather, or the fact that I'm not doing any exercise currently.

So, it's all about trial and error and consistent monitoring! You may need to try eating more of some foods and less of others in a particular meal, until you've got a clear picture of exactly how your body responds to different foods and under different circumstances.

Thank you so much for your reply Cliff, it’s a definite minefield for sure. I’ve been following the Glucose Goddess who pretty much says similar to you regarding sugary things versus protein. Wishing you pain free very soon.

 

[CliffH]

Thank you so much for your reply Cliff, it’s a definite minefield for sure. I’ve been following the Glucose Goddess who pretty much says similar to you regarding sugary things versus protein. Wishing you pain free very soon.

I think, as other people have said in this forum, it's about managing your (pre-)diabetes as best you can, without obsessing about it. It's a mistake to think about 'controlling' it, as diabetes has a habit of changing the rules!

I've never heard of the Glucose Goddess, although I have fond memories of the Green Goddess. I wish there were a Toothache Goddess 🙄

 

[rebrascora]

I believe about 30g carbs per meal is enough to keep the body supplied with glucose, so less than about 30g carbs and it will start to break down the protein and fat.
People with Type 2 diabetes usually have plenty of insulin production, but the timing of the release is delayed or the body is resistant to that insulin, but your body should be able to manage the protein release easier than the carb release because the latter requires a sudden release of a lot of insulin whereas the protein release just needs a very steady dribble of insulin over a longer period of time, so it can be easier for the body to regulate this.
Don't feel that you have to have a minimum of 30g carbs per meal to prevent protein release, because in fact the body has to work harder to get that glucose from the protein and fat, whereas the carbs generally break down very easily, so it almost certainly takes the body more effort to break down protein and fat. More effort generally means less efficient, which is a good thing if you need to lose weight because your digestive system has to work harder to get it's fuel, ie it expends more energy to get the same amount of glucose. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Leadinglights]

Also don't make the assumption that having the same amount of carbs that is one type of food will give the same result as the same amount of carbs that is another type of food as peoples tolerance can be different. So 20g carbs if bread may be fine but not 20g carbs if rice or pasta.
All you can do is experiment as to what suits you.
I tend to try not to eat 2 carb heavy foods in the same meal.

 

[Millyjack]

I think, as other people have said in this forum, it's about managing your (pre-)diabetes as best you can, without obsessing about it. It's a mistake to think about 'controlling' it, as diabetes has a habit of changing the rules!

I've never heard of the Glucose Goddess, although I have fond memories of the Green Goddess. I wish there were a Toothache Goddess 🙄

View attachment 33383

Also don't make the assumption that having the same amount of carbs that is one type of food will give the same result as the same amount of carbs that is another type of food as peoples tolerance can be different. So 20g carbs if bread may be fine but not 20g carbs if rice or pasta.
All you can do is experiment as to what suits you.
I tend to try not to eat 2 carb heavy foods in the same meal.

Thank you Leadinglights

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Good luckwith your experiments @Millyjack

Diabetes can be irritatingly fickle and inconsistent for sure, so the best you can do is to keep plenty of notes, and look for overall patterns rather than expecting 100% repeatable and reliable results to several decimal places - not least because there are plenty of other factors apart from carb content of meals which can affect glucose levels (levels of activity in the previous 24-48 hours… stress… illness… alcohol… even ambient temperature!)

Hopefully fairly quickly you’ll end up with a few basic ’rules of thumb’ in terms of portion sizes that seem to suit you / carb counts per meal, along with a few exceptions (eg generally aim for a total of X grams of carbs for evening meal, unless it’s CarbA, in which case portion size Y is better etc etc).

 

[Millyjack]

I believe about 30g carbs per meal is enough to keep the body supplied with glucose, so less than about 30g carbs and it will start to break down the protein and fat.
People with Type 2 diabetes usually have plenty of insulin production, but the timing of the release is delayed or the body is resistant to that insulin, but your body should be able to manage the protein release easier than the carb release because the latter requires a sudden release of a lot of insulin whereas the protein release just needs a very steady dribble of insulin over a longer period of time, so it can be easier for the body to regulate this.
Don't feel that you have to have a minimum of 30g carbs per meal to prevent protein release, because in fact the body has to work harder to get that glucose from the protein and fat, whereas the carbs generally break down very easily, so it almost certainly takes the body more effort to break down protein and fat. More effort generally means less efficient, which is a good thing if you need to lose weight because your digestive system has to work harder to get it's fuel, ie it expends more energy to get the same amount of glucose. Hopefully that makes sense.

Thank you Barbara, it’s all just a minefield to me at the moment! I don’t know how anyone gets it’s right

 

[rebrascora]

Thank you Barbara, it’s all just a minefield to me at the moment! I don’t know how anyone gets it’s right

Trial and error/improvement!

We were all where you are now, but once you start testing, you start to see trends and get an idea of which foods cause you problems and which you can get away with and how your body responds to all sorts of other situations, like exercise and illness and hot/cold weather. It really can be quite fascinating.

 

[pjgtech]

All good advice above. Just one thing to add, I've read a couple of times that if you eat your protein, fibre and veg/salad before eating the carbs, (so basically eat the carbs last) this can also help to slow the BG rise, if any. Cheers

 

[trophywench]

How do people ever get it right? It's very simple - they do it s l o w l y !