Man sues big food companies over diabetes

[Robin]

Do you think supermarkets have been a big driver in junk food consumption?

I remember shopping at local shops and markets and no part of the weekly shop involved going to the sweet shop. It was literally butchers, bakers, fishmongers and fruit and veg and the weekly market. There were still the supermarkets, but these were supplemented by the local whole food shops and markets, most of which have been driven out and closed.

There is the social and community aspect too of having local shops where customers were known and conversation exchanged.

I certainly think supermarkets exploited the 'pester power' of kids who were now sitting in the trolley at eye height to the sweets displayed at the checkouts, instead of being on the 'customers' side of the shop counter, with all the goods being behind the counter. Shopping took a lot longer, though, and we’ve become time poor since then.

 

[Merluza]

It wasn't just 'pester power' it was direct temptation but you can't lay all the blame at the door of supermarkets, they exist to sell foodstuffs. Marketing, including special deals for supermarkets, plays the major role in selling things you don't need but might just want. It influences by putting it on your TV screen, billboards, the press who will do seasonal articles as you may have recently noticed, your computer screen and now 'influencers' bless 'em.

As the anti-drug adverts used to say "just say no". We are the ultimate decision makers as I'm sure the companies in the frame here will be too happy to inform the courts.

I'm fortunate in that I live in a place that has butchers, bakers, greengrocers, a fishmonger and a hardware shop within easy walking distance, as well as supermarkets. I'm sorry for people who only have supermarkets and some only have mini-markets close by. With a big supermarket at least you have choice but it's still yours.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

As the anti-drug adverts used to say "just say no". We are the ultimate decision makers as I'm sure the companies in the frame here will be too happy to inform the courts.

Right, because "just say no" was completely successful and eliminated drug abuse.

 

[dannybgoode]

Right, because "just say no" was completely successful and eliminated drug abuse.

Some of the cast of Grange Hill shared a spliff on the White House lawn apparently when they were invited over at the height of their Just Say No fame.

Can't say I wouldn't have joined in if I had that opportunity...

 

[beating_my_betes]

They didn’t use to though and there are still less healthy options. Here are McD saying they’ve reduced the sales by 50%, cut sugar, etc, but some of those changes are very recent - ie the last year or two.

Happy Meal® - Fun in Every Meal | McDonald's UK

Discover our McDonald's Happy Meal®, with toys or books, and delicious food in every one.

www.mcdonalds.com

.

Yeah...should've realised these were just options.

But let's say the kids choice was fries and coke, to go along with the burger. Are you saying this meal is unhealthy?

 

[beating_my_betes]

I would think it is easy to argue, or at least claim, that nothing in these products is harmful. Any harm is self inflicted through over use.

No need to argue that nothing in these foods is harmful as the responsibility to prove them to be healthy is on those trying to make the case.

And while there is a wider context to consider when claiming responsibility, you're right that the ultimate arbiters are ourselves, and that it is very much the case that the dose makes the poison

 

[beating_my_betes]

Just the arguments they give in the first few pages: (allegedly) these companies were selling products that they knew were harmful but hard to resist, and deliberately made them harder to resist. And in many cases it was the same companies involved, so it's easy to argue they were just following the same playbook.

This assumes that these foods are harmful. I've not got too far into the document yet, but proof of this seem like it might be very thin on the ground. Perhaps it'll become clearer when reading further.

Also very doubtful of this notion that these food companies are deliberately pedalling harmful substances to create addiction.

 

[beating_my_betes]

Food advertisers have sometimes tried to be careful about what they say, at least in this country. I remember a cereal product being advertised on TV as something to have 'as part of your nutritious breakfast' and thinking, yes, the least nutritious part, the milk they showed being poured on, and the small glass of orange juice nearby was probably much better for you than the advertised product. But the overall impression that the advert wished to convey was that the cereal was the nutritious bit.

Which cereal was it, and what about it wasn't nutritious?

 

[Inka]

Yeah...should've realised these were just options.

But let's say the kids choice was fries and coke, to go along with the burger. Are you saying this meal is unhealthy?

I think there are much better choices - like not going to McD’s at all. Also, while that meal might be ok occasionally, it would depend on whether the ads said that - that it was ok occasionally as part of a healthy balanced diet - or whether there was no qualification about how often it should be eaten.

We all know how deceptive advertising could be in the past. A good example is eggs: Farm Fresh Country Eggs or similar kinds of names, when actually they were from battery hens.

 

[Robin]

Which cereal was it, and what about it wasn't nutritious?

I can’t remember, and a quick Google didn’t throw it up. What it did throw up was quite a few similar phrases from the US for cereals that looked very overprocessed and sweetened. I’m not saying that cereal can’t be part of a balanced breakfast, but I’m sure a lot of people just have ultra processed stuff on its own, and that doesn’t give out a 'nutritious' vibe to me.

 

[Satan’s little helper]

Right, because "just say no" was completely successful and eliminated drug abuse.

I think “talk to FRANK” was a better stratagem informing of the downsides with use. & sharing insight on what some of these drugs are “cut” with? Thus allowing the choice to pass up on it?

I can’t remember, and a quick Google didn’t throw it up. What it did throw up was quite a few similar phrases from the US for cereals that looked very overprocessed and sweetened. I’m not saying that cereal can’t be part of a balanced breakfast, but I’m sure a lot of people just have ultra processed stuff on its own, and that doesn’t give out a 'nutritious' vibe to me.

Was there an animated deep voiced tiger in the advert?

 

[CliffH]

Do you think supermarkets have been a big driver in junk food consumption?

I remember shopping at local shops and markets and no part of the weekly shop involved going to the sweet shop. It was literally butchers, bakers, fishmongers and fruit and veg and the weekly market. There were still the supermarkets, but these were supplemented by the local whole food shops and markets, most of which have been driven out and closed.

There is the social and community aspect too of having local shops where customers were known and conversation exchanged.

Yes, sweets (and crisps) were a treat - not a daily occurrence.

 

[Amity Island]

Yes, sweets (and crisps) were a treat - not a daily occurrence.

This is why I think the solution lies in two things, conscience (manufacturers taking moral responsibility to stop selling junk they know provides no real nutrition or food value) and consciousness (individuals raising their own level of consciousness to move away from such nutrient devoid products).

 

[CliffH]

Do you think supermarkets have been a big driver in junk food consumption?

I remember shopping at local shops and markets and no part of the weekly shop involved going to the sweet shop. It was literally butchers, bakers, fishmongers and fruit and veg and the weekly market. There were still the supermarkets, but these were supplemented by the local whole food shops and markets, most of which have been driven out and closed.

There is the social and community aspect too of having local shops where customers were known and conversation exchanged.

This is why I think the solution lies in two things, conscience (manufacturers taking moral responsibility to stop selling junk they know provides no real nutrition or food value) and consciousness (individuals raising their own level of consciousness to move away from such nutrient devoid products).

I don't think manufacturers will stop selling profitable things unless forced to by legislation - witness tobacco.

 

[Amity Island]

I don't think manufacturers will stop selling profitable things unless forced to by legislation - witness tobacco.

Hence, the court case. If successful, this would likely bring about the change in legislation or at least some voluntary safety warnings on such products and a change or cessation in advertising junk.

 

[nonethewiser]

I remember shopping at local shops and markets and no part of the weekly shop involved going to the sweet shop. It was literally butchers, bakers, fishmongers and fruit and veg and the weekly market. There were still the supermarkets, but these were supplemented by the local whole food shops and markets, most of which have been driven out and closed.

There is the social and community aspect too of having local shops where customers were known and conversation exchanged.

Let's be honest here these shops weren't driven out & closed they just couldn't compete price wise with the emerging supermarkets, people used them & still do as you can buy everything you need under one roof.

There's a slightly romantic image of local shops long past, but many were overcharging because there was no competition around so people had no choice but to pay extortionate prices for things like a loaf of bread, we had such a shop local to us where mother would shop to her dismay, yes staff were friendly & she enjoyed many conversations there but that didn't help with her finances bringing up 4 children.

 

[Amity Island]

Let's be honest here these shops weren't driven out & closed they just couldn't compete price wise with the emerging supermarkets, people used them & still do as you can buy everything you need under one roof.

There's a slightly romantic image of local shops long past, but many were overcharging because there was no competition around so people had no choice but to pay extortionate prices for things like a loaf of bread, we had such a shop local to us where mother would shop to her dismay, yes staff were friendly & she enjoyed many conversations there but that didn't help with her finances bringing up 4 children.

Doom for the High Street as 10,000 family stores are driven out.

The Commission found evidence that the giants - Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons - may be using underhand tactics to grab custom from independent rivals.

This involves selling items like bread, baked beans, alcohol, tobacco and even fuel at below cost price in a bid to grab custom from community stores."

"We strongly believe that practices such as below cost selling and price flexing are targeted in a predatory manner and have the effect of closing smaller competitors."

"People are also genuinely concerned about the places where they live turning into clone towns and the loss of the social glue provided by a rich diversity of genuine local stores."

Doom for the High Street as 10,000 family stores are driven out

Thousands of community stores and specialist butchers, bakers and greengrocers have been lost in the last six years as Britain becomes a supermarket state.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[CliffH]

Doom for the High Street as 10,000 family stores are driven out.

The Commission found evidence that the giants - Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons - may be using underhand tactics to grab custom from independent rivals.

This involves selling items like bread, baked beans, alcohol, tobacco and even fuel at below cost price in a bid to grab custom from community stores."

"We strongly believe that practices such as below cost selling and price flexing are targeted in a predatory manner and have the effect of closing smaller competitors."

"People are also genuinely concerned about the places where they live turning into clone towns and the loss of the social glue provided by a rich diversity of genuine local stores."

Doom for the High Street as 10,000 family stores are driven out

Thousands of community stores and specialist butchers, bakers and greengrocers have been lost in the last six years as Britain becomes a supermarket state.

www.standard.co.uk

Those people who are "genuinely concerned" (rather than pretending to be concerned, perhaps?) are presumably people who have the time, money and transport to go round "family stores", whereas many other people are presumably 'genuinely pleased' to be able to find everyday items at a reasonable price in one place.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

whereas many other people are presumably 'genuinely pleased' to be able to find everyday items at a reasonable price in one place.

I know my parents were delighted when they got to use their first supermarket exactly as you say. My father was a teacher (and my mum didn't drive, and we lived in a small village that just didn't have adequate shops; I think it had a small general store and a post office) so it wasn't easy to get around the necessary shops to buy what we needed. Until we got a supermarket (which also opened a bit later).