Getting back to exercise!

[helli]

Looking at the weather, it might be an indoor turbo session! Will keep you posted.

At least you won't have the worry of trying to.get back home if your ride needs to be aborted. Or trying to find food at short notice in the middle of nowhere - the kitchen is closer to the turbo.all the time.
Probably isn't a bad shout for the first long ride. I used a turbo linked up to Zwift during lockdown. Zwift certainly made it more interesting.

 

[The_Bowlii]

At least you won't have the worry of trying to.get back home if your ride needs to be aborted. Or trying to find food at short notice in the middle of nowhere - the kitchen is closer to the turbo.all the time.
Probably isn't a bad shout for the first long ride. I used a turbo linked up to Zwift during lockdown. Zwift certainly made it more interesting.

That’s my wife’s view too! My plan is normal porridge and berries breakfast with a slice of toast, reduce bolus from 6 to 4 units, wait 30 mins and ride at moderate intensity for 1-2 hours. I’ll be drinking OJ diluted in water to keep up my levels and supplement with banana and/or gels. Post-ride, I’ll also reduce bolus for lunch.

Any views from @helli or @SimonP appreciated!

 

[SimonP]

Looking at the weather, it might be an indoor turbo session! Will keep you posted.

What do they say, never bad weather only bad clothing choices 😉
That said, don't worry I bailed on riding to work during the week as it was raining and drove instead!

At least you won't have the worry of trying to.get back home if your ride needs to be aborted. Or trying to find food at short notice in the middle of nowhere - the kitchen is closer to the turbo.all the time.
Probably isn't a bad shout for the first long ride. I used a turbo linked up to Zwift during lockdown. Zwift certainly made it more interesting.

I used a turbo during the winter too, to avoid getting wet and cold unless I had something specific I wanted to do (tile ticking), but also because it's so much quicker than getting dressed for cold weather.

I'm not sure it has the same psychological effect though, it's also hard to ride for a long time - I can manage a couple of hours watching a movie, etc., but after that point I've got the beneficial exercise effect and without the enjoyment of being outside/requirement to get back home, it's very easy to stop and go and do something else. I suppose testing endurance ride BG control would be a decent motivator though.

 

[SimonP]

That’s my wife’s view too! My plan is normal porridge and berries breakfast with a slice of toast, reduce bolus from 6 to 4 units, wait 30 mins and ride at moderate intensity for 1-2 hours. I’ll be drinking OJ diluted in water to keep up my levels and supplement with banana and/or gels. Post-ride, I’ll also reduce bolus for lunch.

Any views from @helli or @SimonP appreciated!

Sounds like a reasonable point to start the experimentation 🙂. Knowing how quickly my BG rises after food I'd probably start within 15min of eating to avoid going really high (apparently one should wait after eating before exercising, but I'm not sure that applies to endurance riding!).

Enjoy and let us know how you get on 🙂

 

[Wendal]

Morning what great responses and as I don’t do intensive exercise as some of you fitter folk I wont tender any specific advice.
What is heartening imo is the discussion of exercise as part of the solution. Not only does it help people manage the condition but with advice, informed experience and some experimentation it allows people to continue to engage in sport/physical activity that may have been important to them in a pre diabetic life.
Plus it can be great for peoples mental and general health which I consider very important post diagnosis.
I know that if you overweight so can be correlated with Type 2 but not necessarily so then increasing exercise is often advised by your diabetic team.
However if you are Type 1 I am not sure how much it is included as in my very limited experience with a very supportive healthcare Team it was not mentioned at all just insulin and diet.
This contrasts strongly regarding the condition in cats and dogs where in Dogs where it is mainly Type 1 ( in contrast to Type 2 in cats) it is much more common to promote a true multi modal approach of insulin,diet and exercise to manage the condition.

 

[The_Bowlii]

Morning what great responses and as I don’t do intensive exercise as some of you fitter folk I wont tender any specific advice.
What is heartening imo is the discussion of exercise as part of the solution. Not only does it help people manage the condition but with advice, informed experience and some experimentation it allows people to continue to engage in sport/physical activity that may have been important to them in a pre diabetic life.
Plus it can be great for peoples mental and general health which I consider very important post diagnosis.
I know that if you overweight so can be correlated with Type 2 but not necessarily so then increasing exercise is often advised by your diabetic team.
However if you are Type 1 I am not sure how much it is included as in my very limited experience with a very supportive healthcare Team it was not mentioned at all just insulin and diet.
This contrasts strongly regarding the condition in cats and dogs where in Dogs where it is mainly Type 1 ( in contrast to Type 2 in cats) it is much more common to promote a true multi modal approach of insulin,diet and exercise to manage the condition.

Hi @Wendal. Exercise through cycling and squash is what I did every day pre-diagnosis. Getting back to it (or not being able) was my biggest worry. Thanks to some of the great folk on here, I now know it’s possible with some planning and preparation. I’m trying to understand some of the parameters required (BG levels, insulin, food, duration, recovery…) to help me get back to as normal as possible. Made a few mistakes already but also some successes. As I’ve said before, every day is a learning day!

 

[Wendal]

Hi @Wendal. Exercise through cycling and squash is what I did every day pre-diagnosis. Getting back to it (or not being able) was my biggest worry. Thanks to some of the great folk on here, I now know it’s possible with some planning and preparation. I’m trying to understand some of the parameters required (BG levels, insulin, food, duration, recovery…) to help me get back to as normal as possible. Made a few mistakes already but also some successes. As I’ve said before, every day is a learning day!

Yep very important to live our life as normal as much as we can and concentrate on what we can do rather than can’t for all kinds of reasons.
I know that insulin is simply replacing what the body produces naturally but I try and manage my BG levels as much as possible by moderate exercise rather than adjusting my insulin.
The use of the Libre is paramount in being able to manage this and of course others will manage their condition with a different focus.
It is just the way I prefer to do it and works for me and that is the important bit to find ways of managing the condition for yourself depending on how you best do it for the life you want to lead.
ATB

 

[helli]

Another thing with the Turbo trainer is that you are not restricted to the natural terrain. So you can experiment with a flat sprint or a long haul climb whenever you want.

 

[SimonP]

Morning what great responses and as I don’t do intensive exercise as some of you fitter folk I wont tender any specific advice.
What is heartening imo is the discussion of exercise as part of the solution. Not only does it help people manage the condition but with advice, informed experience and some experimentation it allows people to continue to engage in sport/physical activity that may have been important to them in a pre diabetic life.
Plus it can be great for peoples mental and general health which I consider very important post diagnosis.
I know that if you overweight so can be correlated with Type 2 but not necessarily so then increasing exercise is often advised by your diabetic team.
However if you are Type 1 I am not sure how much it is included as in my very limited experience with a very supportive healthcare Team it was not mentioned at all just insulin and diet.

It's interesting that there's not more guidance given, I think part of the problem is that we all react differently and it changes and it also depends very much on how much exercise you're doing - the reason I originally joined the forum was to see how people dealt with (long) endurance exercise, while my hospital team are really good they didn't know (and said as much and pointed me to online information, and as always were very happy that I was experimenting to see what would work.)

I know that insulin is simply replacing what the body produces naturally but I try and manage my BG levels as much as possible by moderate exercise rather than adjusting my insulin.

This is a double-edged sword though, I find I sometimes don't do a correction dose as I am going to go for a ride soon, which will deal with the rise, however, I may end up with better time in range if I do a correction and then eat extra before/during the ride - this is especially the case if my planned ride is over lunch and someone sticks a meeting in the calendar at the last minute - I've been running high for no reason and need to correct it anyway at that point! 🙂

Another thing with the Turbo trainer is that you are not restricted to the natural terrain. So you can experiment with a flat sprint or a long haul climb whenever you want.

I have a smart trainer but to date (one winter) have only done (self-)prescribed "workouts" while watching the TV, perhaps I'd be more motivated indoors if I hooked it up to something like Zwift. I'd still prefer to be outdoors - perhaps I could motivate myself by a trip to southern France (or Spain) to try some long haul climbs and some warmer weather 🙂

 

[Wendal]

Yep Simon appreciate it is a lot more involved if you doing more intensive or much longer periods of exercise than say myself who seeks to make more gentle adjustments and only do more intense sessions for much shorter durations if my BG spikes suddenly.

 

[The_Bowlii]

It's interesting that there's not more guidance given, I think part of the problem is that we all react differently and it changes and it also depends very much on how much exercise you're doing - the reason I originally joined the forum was to see how people dealt with (long) endurance exercise, while my hospital team are really good they didn't know (and said as much and pointed me to online information, and as always were very happy that I was experimenting to see what would work.)


This is a double-edged sword though, I find I sometimes don't do a correction dose as I am going to go for a ride soon, which will deal with the rise, however, I may end up with better time in range if I do a correction and then eat extra before/during the ride - this is especially the case if my planned ride is over lunch and someone sticks a meeting in the calendar at the last minute - I've been running high for no reason and need to correct it anyway at that point! 🙂


I have a smart trainer but to date (one winter) have only done (self-)prescribed "workouts" while watching the TV, perhaps I'd be more motivated indoors if I hooked it up to something like Zwift. I'd still prefer to be outdoors - perhaps I could motivate myself by a trip to southern France (or Spain) to try some long haul climbs and some warmer weather 🙂

I can recommend Zwift as you can do all sorts of things. Also GCN Training is free and I use it whilst adjusting the turbo settings via the Wahoo app. There’s a channel on YouTube called Indoor Cycling Videos (does what it says on the tin) that’s just films routes via GoPro around the Alps and the Dolomites so you just go at your own pace while getting a great view!

Re Europe, Jet2 to Mallorca, stay at Porto Pollensa and get up Sa Calobra. Amazing!

 

[SimonP]

I can recommend Zwift as you can do all sorts of things. Also GCN Training is free and I use it whilst adjusting the turbo settings via the Wahoo app. There’s a channel on YouTube called Indoor Cycling Videos (does what it says on the tin) that’s just films routes via GoPro around the Alps and the Dolomites so you just go at your own pace while getting a great view!

I used the Garmin built-in training tools but wasn't overly impressed with the fact that they are not adaptive - they don't take account of missed sessions (due to work, illness, etc.) nor extra sessions I would fit in outside when the weather was decent. I'll have a look at the GCN stuff and I guess if the worst comes to the worst I can sit and spin Z2 for a couple of hours.

Thanks for the recommendation re Indoor Cycling Videos. As well as watching movies I did watch a variety of things bike-related but they were all quite dynamic and it felt very odd watching PoV someone doing a MTB downhill or SAFA Brian descending at speed without being able to lean or move the bike forward and backward - you get used to it quite quickly but it does generate that feeling in the pit of your stomach which you get on a swing or when going partially weightless over a bridge (in a car), which was quite novel.

Re Europe, Jet2 to Mallorca, stay at Porto Pollensa and get up Sa Calobra. Amazing!

I've seen videos, sounds great 🙂

 

[The_Bowlii]

I used the Garmin built-in training tools but wasn't overly impressed with the fact that they are not adaptive - they don't take account of missed sessions (due to work, illness, etc.) nor extra sessions I would fit in outside when the weather was decent. I'll have a look at the GCN stuff and I guess if the worst comes to the worst I can sit and spin Z2 for a couple of hours.

Thanks for the recommendation re Indoor Cycling Videos. As well as watching movies I did watch a variety of things bike-related but they were all quite dynamic and it felt very odd watching PoV someone doing a MTB downhill or SAFA Brian descending at speed without being able to lean or move the bike forward and backward - you get used to it quite quickly but it does generate that feeling in the pit of your stomach which you get on a swing or when going partially weightless over a bridge (in a car), which was quite novel.


I've seen videos, sounds great 🙂

My favourite “go to” GCN Training session is the 8x30 second sprint session. It’s just 30 mins with decreasing recovery. Doesn’t sound hard but first thing in the morning or after a hard day at work, it does wonders.

Sa Calobra is an absolute must. I’ve done it three times including once with my wife. She compared the pain of the climb (9.6km, ave gradient 7%, 36 switchbacks) to childbirth! The beauty of it is you have to cycle 30 miles from Porto Pollensa to get to the top, roll down it then turn round and come straight back up as it’s a dead end. Absolutely stunning - May or October the best time.

 

[The_Bowlii]

Today was all about squash on my road to recovery. Normal breakfast and 1:10 insulin to carbs. Had half a banana about 10:30 and half a toasted tea cake at 12:00, both uncovered, before playing 45 mins of squash. Levels remained within range the whole match.

Lunch was 80g carbs but reduced insulin to 5 units. Even with that reduction, I had a low level alarm an hour after lunch (checked with finger prick) at 3.8 units so had to eat an additional 20g carbs. Dinner was 90g carbs, 7 units insulin and been relatively stable since. If it goes high before bed, I’ll make a small correction.

What have I learned?
- exercise massively affects insulin requirements (yes, I know, you all told me!)
- eating prior to exercise can be done (within reason) without insulin
- post exercise insulin requirements need to be reduced from normal to about half
- need to keep an eye on levels post exercise and eating / insulin to avoid lows

Let’s see if I can apply this to cycling tomorrow!

 

[The_Bowlii]

Indoor cycling update from this morning. In my defence, it was raining and blowing a hoolie so a controlled conditions turbo was the order of the day.

Breakfast of 75g carbs, 4 units insulin and started riding at Z2/3 about 20 minutes after eating. BG started at 12 mmol/l. Ok for the first 30 mins but levels fell to around 5, ate half banana, started to drink orange juice in water and then a gel at 45 mins. Got through the hour and then had another 30g carbs so 70g additional carbs required overall!

At lunch, 40g carbs, 2 units insulin and all ok. Rose to about 11 mmol/l and after gentle walk this afternoon back around 5 mmol/l.

What have I learnt?
- need even less insulin than expected - 1/3 of normal levels?
- meal post exercise needs about 1/2 of normal insulin

Next week, less insulin, longer distance and see how that goes. Meanwhile, several squash matches to get through. It’s all go!

 

[pistolpete]

To be fair you have had 4 units of insulin for 75g of carbs cycled for an hour and taken another 70g of carbs to keep you in range, Id say you can afford to go with no insulin pre cycle. 5mmol is a little tight for T1, between 6 and 7mmol would be a preferable post meal (4hrs) and an overnight target. You'll get the hang of it, keep it up

 

[The_Bowlii]

To be fair you have had 4 units of insulin for 75g of carbs cycled for an hour and taken another 70g of carbs to keep you in range, Id say you can afford to go with no insulin pre cycle. 5mmol is a little tight for T1, between 6 and 7mmol would be a preferable post meal (4hrs) and an overnight target. You'll get the hang of it, keep it up

Thanks @pistolpete. Trying things stepwise - 100%, 80%, 50% of insulin requirement. Think I’ll try 25% next (2 units for 80g carbs) and if that also sends me low, zero insulin. It’ll be like getting back to where I was pre-diagnosis! Feels very difficult right now but changing one parameter at a time ought to make things clearer.

 

[The_Bowlii]

Afternoon all. Busy week with several squash matches, some more successful than others. I now know I need to eat about 40g carbs uncovered in advance / during the game. Post-match beer a thing of the past as there’s nothing in my stomach but hey ho.

Done a couple of turbo sessions too (wife away and she didn’t want me out on my own!). Bit hit and miss with too much insulin / too little food but got it just right this morning! 70g carbs for brekkie, just 2 units Fiasp, wait 30 mins to digest it (levels around 11-12 mmol/l) and then an hour’s Zwift. No additional food required, finished at about 7.5 mmol/l so celebrated with an oat milk latte and a banana. That took me back over a little but had a gentle game of squash and all under control.

Good news is I am getting more confident and pretty sure I’ll be putting some longer distances in over the winter. I’m sure I’ll make mistakes but don’t we all? 🙂

 

[The_Bowlii]

Two words from me: Jelly Babies. Fabulous little sugar hits that can be piled into cycle tops and grabbed as and when. The key thing about them is that it really needs to get to stupidly high temperatures before they show any sign of melting.

Hi Rob. Re the jelly babies, do you just pop one in every 10-20 mins or so to keep levels as stable as possible or do you wait until you go low and then use them to catch up? Daft question I know but trying to work out how I stay in range without having to tow a trailer of food with me! 🙂

 

[SimonP]

Afternoon all. Busy week with several squash matches, some more successful than others. I now know I need to eat about 40g carbs uncovered in advance / during the game. Post-match beer a thing of the past as there’s nothing in my stomach but hey ho.

Done a couple of turbo sessions too (wife away and she didn’t want me out on my own!). Bit hit and miss with too much insulin / too little food but got it just right this morning! 70g carbs for brekkie, just 2 units Fiasp, wait 30 mins to digest it (levels around 11-12 mmol/l) and then an hour’s Zwift. No additional food required, finished at about 7.5 mmol/l so celebrated with an oat milk latte and a banana. That took me back over a little but had a gentle game of squash and all under control.

Good news is I am getting more confident and pretty sure I’ll be putting some longer distances in over the winter. I’m sure I’ll make mistakes but don’t we all? 🙂

Good stuff, and yes mistakes are part of the process.

Hi Rob. Re the jelly babies, do you just pop one in every 10-20 mins or so to keep levels as stable as possible or do you wait until you go low and then use them to catch up? Daft question I know but trying to work out how I stay in range without having to tow a trailer of food with me! 🙂

I certainly eat early, if I leave it until my blood sugar on the libre is showing ~5 my power and stamina both fall off a cliff and I'm in trouble (likely already marginally hypo with the lag) - it depends on experience of what your blood sugar response is like, but I certainly aim to eat early and avoid dropping down too close to being hypo.

I also need to eat significantly more than a single jelly baby every 10-20min, more like 60g/hr (which I guess is only 12 jelly babies an hour, so not that much more...) For me that's usually a brunch bar and handful of sour sweets every 20-30min usually spread out a bit while I'm riding. I also try to eat savoury food from time to time - part-bake rolls are good carbs-bang-for-volume-buck (bacon rolls are great if I can be bothered to prepare them pre-ride, otherwise ham rolls it is). If I don't pay attention I'll need to eat more fast acting sweets to pull the levels up, though I don't much like having to eat lots of sweet stuff when hours in so this is not ideal.