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Type 3c after removal of pancreas tail and spleen?

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.

SouthCoastLou

New Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 3c
Hi. I am very new to this subject as I’m still in recovery following the removal a month ago of a cancerous tumour from the tail of the pancreas. The tail and spleen were removed. We are hoping the cancer was entirely contained in the tumour. As directed I am currently taking finger prick tests three times a week for another two months before an assessment; I do them before breakfast and evening meal. I am quite frankly terrified at the thought of becoming insulin dependent and needing injections. I know nothing about diabetes and don’t even know what levels are considered at risk. The brief talk I had in hospital prior to discharge mentioned Type 3c diabetes. Am I able to control blood sugar levels by diet if I have this type of diabetes? Prior to this surgery I was very active and had a good balanced diet and maintained a healthy weight. Any advice or info from other members in a similar health situation would be really helpful. Thank you.
 
Hi. I am very new to this subject as I’m still in recovery following the removal a month ago of a cancerous tumour from the tail of the pancreas. The tail and spleen were removed. We are hoping the cancer was entirely contained in the tumour. As directed I am currently taking finger prick tests three times a week for another two months before an assessment; I do them before breakfast and evening meal. I am quite frankly terrified at the thought of becoming insulin dependent and needing injections. I know nothing about diabetes and don’t even know what levels are considered at risk. The brief talk I had in hospital prior to discharge mentioned Type 3c diabetes. Am I able to control blood sugar levels by diet if I have this type of diabetes? Prior to this surgery I was very active and had a good balanced diet and maintained a healthy weight. Any advice or info from other members in a similar health situation would be really helpful. Thank you.
Welcome to the forum, sorry you have been through so much trauma and worry and hope that the treatment has been successful, early diagnosis is important.
There are quite a few people who are diagnosed as Type 3c for various reasons and they have different management strategies so hopefully they will be along and can give you some words of wisdom from their experience.
It is obviously early days for you at the moment and please take time to recover and don't push yourself too much, it is easy to do too much too soon.
 
Hi and welcome from me too.

Hope your recovery goes smoothly and they successfully got all the cancer. Type 3c diabetes is categorized by damage, disease, surgery or other trauma to the pancreas. If you still have some pancreas left, then you may be able to produce enough insulin to manage without injecting insulin at least for now but I would like to reassure you that injecting insulin (if it becomes necessary) is really not to be feared. The needles are absolutely tiny and it should not stop you from being active once you learn how to balance your insulin with your food and exercise. That takes trial and error and improvement. I am a horse rider and carriage driver and I also walk and jog, mostly on my own, without any problems. We have members who rock climb and scuba dive and plenty who cycle and swim, so plenty of scope for still doing the things that you used to enjoy, as long as you take some time out to plan to keep yourself safe by carrying test kit and hypo treatments with you wherever you go. It takes up a bit of head space to give consideration to all the things which can affect BG levels everyday, but a lot of it becomes routine and automatic.... a bit like learning to drive a car. It's all terribly complicated at first and you have to think about every little part of the process, but gradually your body just does those things like changing gear and indicating and looking in the mirror and slipping the clutch, without you really consciously thinking about them.

All that said, you may not need insulin for quite some time, if ever, but the latter would be unusual I think and sometimes early introduction of insulin can preserve some of the insulin producing cells you have left, which can help to smooth off the edges of the peaks and troughs. You will find that diabetes is very individual so no-one can really say for certain how your body will respond and when or if you will need insulin.

Can I ask what sort of readings you are currently getting? And are you taking Creon which is the digestive enzymes?

I am sure that some of the other Type 3c members of the forum like @eggyg and @Proud to be erratic and @soupdragon will be along in due course to welcome you and give you more info.
 
Thank you for your informative reply. As I still have another two months of initial finger prick testing I’m not yet on any medication to do with possible diabetes. I am on medication relating to the splenectomy. My finger prick numbers are 6-7.5 and having just looked this up, I think that’s OK? I would also say that I am back to eating and drinking as I was before the operation.
 
Welcome to the forum, sorry you have been through so much trauma and worry and hope that the treatment has been successful, early diagnosis is important.
There are quite a few people who are diagnosed as Type 3c for various reasons and they have different management strategies so hopefully they will be along and can give you some words of wisdom from their experience.
It is obviously early days for you at the moment and please take time to recover and don't push yourself too much, it is easy to do too much too soon.
Thank you for your reply. I think you hit the nail on the head - I’m am doing too much too soon and need to just sit and heal!
 
Yes, you have every reason to be happy with those readings especially after the major surgery you have been through. Great to hear you are now able to eat normally.
 
Hello @SouthCoastLou,
I had a total pancreatectomy in Feb 20 to deal with Pancreatic Cancer.
Hi. I am very new to this subject as I’m still in recovery following the removal a month ago of a cancerous tumour from the tail of the pancreas. The tail and spleen were removed.
I went into surgery knowing that a tumour blocking my bile duct was to be removed and that partial or total pancreatic removal was possible, but the Surgeons could only make a definitive decision once they saw exactly what was going on. So later that day I was wholly insulin dependent and not subsequently had the opportunity to review my choices!!
We are hoping the cancer was entirely contained in the tumour.
I received a comprehensive surgical report 2 or more weeks after my surgery which explained exactly what had been taken away and talked about an incision within 2 mm of a vein, precluding more removal. I also received the histology report which had analysed what had been removed and provided details of many cancerous nodes. This neither confirmed nor refuted the possibility of something cancerous left behind. But it did reassure me that everything possible was done on the day!
At no point in the pre-ops or the preceding hours could I get a clear answer as to whether further cancer treatment might be needed. That was a shade unsettling and on discharge from hospital "Adjuvant" (= follow-up) chemotherapy was fleetingly mentioned. At this stage I had not seen an Oncologist at any time. After 3 months recovery I had a Face to Face meeting with an Oncologist's Registrar and a few days later started adjuvant chemo, as a precaution. This was in May 20 when Covid lockdowns had started.
I struggled with the chemo; not everyone finds it too bad - but it was tough going for me. I completed 6 cycles and was developing neuropathy in my feet, so the Senior Oncologist discussed options with me, including continue chemo or stop. I was prepared to continue, but was over-ruled - a scan was showing nothing untoward and the judgement was that the risk of increased neuropathy (very bad for diabetic folks) along with my poor tolerance of the chemo cocktail meant stop and review in a few months time.
I remain in remission from cancer. No signs of any sort.
As directed I am currently taking finger prick tests three times a week for another two months before an assessment; I do them before breakfast and evening meal. I am quite frankly terrified at the thought of becoming insulin dependent and needing injections. I know nothing about diabetes and don’t even know what levels are considered at risk. The brief talk I had in hospital prior to discharge mentioned Type 3c diabetes.
As confirmed by @rebrascora, T3c is diabetes caused by damage to the pancreas, including damage from scheduled surgery. In % terms it is rare. T2 leads the way for c.90% of all Ds in UK, T1 for c.10% and T3c is miniscule; many medical professionals have not even heard of T3c Diabetes.
BUT it seems that currently you barely have Diabetes. Your daily tests seem to be showing your blood glucose is OK, perhaps just a little high for a non-diabetic person (but fine for someone with diabetes). You should have had a blood test known as an HbA1c, which measures your body's ability to remove glucose from your blood over a 3 month period and I would be amazed if you don't have this test before your next assessment. That will ultimately determine whether you are now formally diabetic and what, if any, medication is appropriate at that time.
If this does result in you being declared diabetic, CLING to a diagnosis of T3c. Regardless of whatever medication is started. The Type of Diabetes diagnosed arises solely from what caused it, not what treatment is needed. You might be started on oral medications as if T2 [but not actually T2] or insulin as if T1 [but not T1]. The importance of this is because T1s (and T3s should) come under Specialist Hospital based Teams, who understand the potential complexities of T1 and T3. Whereas T2s come under GP surgeries, because it is considered within the scope of General Practice; this doesn't make this perfect or even half correct, but is defined by the NICE Guidance for treatment of Diabetes.
T3c might be routine for you initially and might even remain that way in perpetuity. But a damaged pancreas can be a fickle organ and if problems should occur over time, they need taking to an Endocrinologist promptly and not sit with an overworked GP who won't necessarily "join the dots" quickly. This is not a criticism of GPs in general; T3 (any flavour from a-k) will normally be outside the scope of General Practice. Once introduced (referred) to Specialist Diabetes Teams the door is generally open for a patient to ask for help directly, without a new referral.
Am I able to control blood sugar levels by diet if I have this type of diabetes?
In my non-medical opinion - possibly. But that could also mean constraining your diet and lifestyle too much. A logical progression might be oral meds to improve your bod'ys ability to manage the insulin you are making, or stronger oral meds to encourage your pancreas to produce more insulin. If you ultimately need insulin it is a nuisance, but not so much of a nuisance. You are recovering from treatment for Pancreatic Cancer and if that means some adjustments for your future quality of life .... I suggest "go with the flow".
Prior to this surgery I was very active and had a good balanced diet and maintained a healthy weight. Any advice or info from other members in a similar health situation would be really helpful. Thank you.
I also was very active formerly and am again now. I have had a series of hiccups along the way, including an incisional hernia repair in May this year from my original Whipple Procedure and a month later emergency surgery to unblock my colon, snagged on scar tissue from my original Whipple. Scar tissue is mentioned on my Jan 20 pre-op risks paperwork, but so was death and for some reason I barely noticed the scar tissue "risk"!
I wish you the best of luck with all of this. Right now, take it easy and maximise your recovery from surgery.

Edited to add you should expect to be under the joint care of at least an Oncologist and the HPB surgical team for several months, maybe a year. As well as possibly an Endocrinologist, depending on your future HbA1c result in a couple of months. In theory they should all be well informed about your progress and any changes you might experience. This has not been my experience and I've been proactive in keeping each informed of any development. My GP receives their guidance and writes the necessary prescriptions, but is reactive after NOT proactive before.
 
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Hi @SouthCoastLou
I had the same operation almost 15 years ago. My tumour turned out to be pre cancerous, thank goodness. I was back at work within four months, albeit on a phased return. I didn’t become diabetic until almost three years later. I managed without insulin for another four years. Unfortunately, it will be inevitable as your remaining bit of pancreas dies off. Of course it is different for everyone and that’s just my story. In the meantime I would do lots of research on Type 3c, to prepare you, and of course we’re here to help. I’m now 62, retired, not through my ill health but my husband’s. Look after five grandchildren on a regular basis, climb fells, do lots of walking and lead a normal life ( spontaneity doesn’t play much part). My outlook is, I may not be here if I hadn’t had the op so if becoming diabetic and injection insulin everyday is the alternative, I’ll take it. In the interim, get over the operation, forget about diabetes etc, take care of the here and now. Are you on Creon? This is an enzyme which helps you digest your food as your pancreas is now damaged it may not produce them anymore or not enough. It’s a lot to take in but we’re here to help. Any questions, however daft you may think they are, ask away. Take care. Elaine.
 
Thank you for your informative reply. As I still have another two months of initial finger prick testing I’m not yet on any

medication to do with possible diabetes. I am on medication relating to the splenectomy. My finger prick numbers are 6-7.5 and having just looked this up, I think that’s OK? I would also say that I am back to eating and drinking as I was before the operation.
Hello @SouthCoastLou,
I had a total pancreatectomy in Feb 20 to deal with Pancreatic Cancer.

I went into surgery knowing that a tumour blocking my bile duct was to be removed and that partial or total pancreatic removal was possible, but the Surgeons could only make a definitive decision once they saw exactly what was going on. So later that day I was wholly insulin dependent and not subsequently had the opportunity to review my choices!!

I received a comprehensive surgical report 2 or more weeks after my surgery which explained exactly what had been taken away and talked about an incision within 2 mm of a vein, precluding more removal. I also received the histology report which had analysed what had been removed and provided details of many cancerous nodes. This neither confirmed nor refuted the possibility of something cancerous left behind. But it did reassure me that everything possible was done on the day!
At no point in the pre-ops or the preceding hours could I get a clear answer as to whether further cancer treatment might be needed. That was a shade unsettling and on discharge from hospital "Adjuvant" (= follow-up) chemotherapy was fleetingly mentioned. At this stage I had not seen an Oncologist at any time. After 3 months recovery I had a Face to Face meeting with an Oncologist's Registrar and a few days later started adjuvant chemo, as a precaution. This was in May 20 when Covid lockdowns had started.
I struggled with the chemo; not everyone finds it too bad - but it was tough going for me. I completed 6 cycles and was developing neuropathy in my feet, so the Senior Oncologist discussed options with me, including continue chemo or stop. I was prepared to continue, but was over-ruled - a scan was showing nothing untoward and the judgement was that the risk of increased neuropathy (very bad for diabetic folks) along with my poor tolerance of the chemo cocktail meant stop and review in a few months time.
I remain in remission from cancer. No signs of any sort.

As confirmed by @rebrascora, T3c is diabetes caused by damage to the pancreas, including damage from scheduled surgery. In % terms it is rare. T2 leads the way for c.90% of all Ds in UK, T1 for c.10% and T3c is miniscule; many medical professionals have not even heard of T3c Diabetes.
BUT it seems that currently you barely have Diabetes. Your daily tests seem to be showing your blood glucose is OK, perhaps just a little high for a non-diabetic person (but fine for someone with diabetes). You should have had a blood test known as an HbA1c, which measures your body's ability to remove glucose from your blood over a 3 month period and I would be amazed if you don't have this test before your next assessment. That will ultimately determine whether you are now formally diabetic and what, if any, medication is appropriate at that time.
If this does result in you being declared diabetic, CLING to a diagnosis of T3c. Regardless of whatever medication is started. The Type of Diabetes diagnosed arises solely from what caused it, not what treatment is needed. You might be started on oral medications as if T2 [but not actually T2] or insulin as if T1 [but not T1]. The importance of this is because T1s (and T3s should) come under Specialist Hospital based Teams, who understand the potential complexities of T1 and T3. Whereas T2s come under GP surgeries, because it is considered within the scope of General Practice; this doesn't make this perfect or even half correct, but is defined by the NICE Guidance for treatment of Diabetes.
T3c might be routine for you initially and might even remain that way in perpetuity. But a damaged pancreas can be a fickle organ and if problems should occur over time, they need taking to an Endocrinologist promptly and not sit with an overworked GP who won't necessarily "join the dots" quickly. This is not a criticism of GPs in general; T3 (any flavour from a-k) will normally be outside the scope of General Practice. Once introduced (referred) to Specialist Diabetes Teams the door is generally open for a patient to ask for help directly, without a new referral.

In my non-medical opinion - possibly. But that could also mean constraining your diet and lifestyle too much. A logical progression might be oral meds to improve your bod'ys ability to manage the insulin you are making, or stronger oral meds to encourage your pancreas to produce more insulin. If you ultimately need insulin it is a nuisance, but not so much of a nuisance. You are recovering from treatment for Pancreatic Cancer and if that means some adjustments for your future quality of life .... I suggest "go with the flow".

I also was very active formerly and am again now. I have had a series of hiccups along the way, including an incisional hernia repair in May this year from my original Whipple Procedure and a month later emergency surgery to unblock my colon, snagged on scar tissue from my original Whipple. Scar tissue is mentioned on my Jan 20 pre-op risks paperwork, but so was death and for some reason I barely noticed the scar tissue "risk"!
I wish you the best of luck with all of this. Right now, take it easy and maximise your recovery from surgery.

Edited to add you should expect to be under the joint care of at least an Oncologist and the HPB surgical team for several months, maybe a year. As well as possibly an Endocrinologist, depending on your future HbA1c result in a couple of months. In theory they should all be well informed about your progress and any changes you might experience. This has not been my experience and I've been proactive in keeping each informed of any development. My GP receives their guidance and writes the necessary prescriptions, but is reactive after NOT proactive before.
Thank you for taking the time to relay so much information. It is early days for me but I will bear all of that in mind during the process of recovery and treatment.
 
Hi @SouthCoastLou
I had the same operation almost 15 years ago. My tumour turned out to be pre cancerous, thank goodness. I was back at work within four months, albeit on a phased return. I didn’t become diabetic until almost three years later. I managed without insulin for another four years. Unfortunately, it will be inevitable as your remaining bit of pancreas dies off. Of course it is different for everyone and that’s just my story. In the meantime I would do lots of research on Type 3c, to prepare you, and of course we’re here to help. I’m now 62, retired, not through my ill health but my husband’s. Look after five grandchildren on a regular basis, climb fells, do lots of walking and lead a normal life ( spontaneity doesn’t play much part). My outlook is, I may not be here if I hadn’t had the op so if becoming diabetic and injection insulin everyday is the alternative, I’ll take it. In the interim, get over the operation, forget about diabetes etc, take care of the here and now. Are you on Creon? This is an enzyme which helps you digest your food as your pancreas is now damaged it may not produce them anymore or not enough. It’s a lot to take in but we’re here to help. Any questions, however daft you may think they are, ask away. Take care. Elaine.
Thank you for your response. I’ve got an appointment with the consultant next week to discuss the outcome of the operation etc. It is a lot to take in but I’ve gained really helpful information from this forum already. One step at a time!
 
Thank you for your response. I’ve got an appointment with the consultant next week to discuss the outcome of the operation etc. It is a lot to take in but I’ve gained really helpful information from this forum already. One step at a time!

Welcome to the forum @SouthCoastLou

Glad you’ve had some input from some of our friendly 3c’s and found their posts helpful.

Keep us posted as and when you get some more information, and as things evolve and change over the coming months. 🙂
 
Hi @SouthCoastLou and welcome from another Type 3c. A different cause for me (pancreatitis). I've been on insulin from the beginning.
You've had lots of great advice on here so I'll just wish you a continued good recovery and hope your appointment is useful.
 
Hi. Thank you for all the responses. The tumour on the pancreas has now been identified and I’m waiting to see if there’s further treatment required. My regular tri-weekly am and pm blood sugar tests seem to be fairly consistent so I guess I’ll just wait until the final diabetes evaluation test at the end of the month. I feel well and don’t seem to have any other adverse side effects
 
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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
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