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type 3c rare should you re examine

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.

s.e london

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 3c
just a quickie ,had type 2 10 years ago, on metformin slow release . had pancreatitus 1 year ago spent a few days in hospital , re diagnosed with type 3c , rare ,now on insulin nova mix 30--70 twice a day also creon capsules for enzymes , pancreas no longer does its job. just had hbc1 done ,running a bit high 7.4 . and put on a bit of weight. I am 5ft 8 11stone 10lb. was 11stone, thats the enzymes, and my love of food. do not watch the calories ect, so I am happy with that number a little less bread and potatoes and that will come down.I was told that more people should be re examined for type , since there would be more type 3 and not type 2 as is the majority of diabetics.
 
Welcome to the forum @s.e london
Type 3c is definitely less common that type 2 but you are not alone on this forum.
I will tag @eggyg and @Proud to be erratic who also have Type 3c.

From reading what these "expert" have said over the years, my understanding was that Type 3c is treated in the same way as Type 1 (with the addition of creon) so I am very surprised to see that you are using the old fashioned mixed insulin. Basal bolus regime is far more flexible. I was on the fixed dose when I was first diagnosed nearly 20 years ago and found it challenging unless I lived a very fixed regimental lifestyle which did not suit me. I changed after 6 months. Basal bolus requires more injections but it gave me my freedom back.
 
I agree that many people are misdiagnosed as Type 2 as there is no specific testing and they are just assumed to be Type 2 because other options are not investigated particularly if they are a certain age and perhaps carrying a bit too much weight. I think you are right that there are probably more Type 3cs that are diagnosed Type 2 and also slow onset Type 1s who are labelled Type 2 and never get tested to clarify their real Type.
 
Welcome to the forum @s.e london
Type 3c is definitely less common that type 2 but you are not alone on this forum.
I will tag @eggyg and @Proud to be erratic who also have Type 3c.

From reading what these "expert" have said over the years, my understanding was that Type 3c is treated in the same way as Type 1 (with the addition of creon) so I am very surprised to see that you are using the old fashioned mixed insulin. Basal bolus regime is far more flexible. I was on the fixed dose when I was first diagnosed nearly 20 years ago and found it challenging unless I lived a very fixed regimental lifestyle which did not suit me. I changed after 6 months. Basal bolus requires more injections but it gave me my freedom back.
I have inwardly digested what you say on insulin. and appreciate you making me aware of a more up to date thinking on what type of insulin to consider.
 
Welcome to the forum @s.e london
Type 3c is definitely less common that type 2 but you are not alone on this forum.
I will tag @eggyg and @Proud to be erratic who also have Type 3c.

From reading what these "expert" have said over the years, my understanding was that Type 3c is treated in the same way as Type 1 (with the addition of creon) so I am very surprised to see that you are using the old fashioned mixed insulin. Basal bolus regime is far more flexible. I was on the fixed dose when I was first diagnosed nearly 20 years ago and found it challenging unless I lived a very fixed regimental lifestyle which did not suit me. I changed after 6 months. Basal bolus requires more injections but it gave me my freedom back.
I agree that many people are misdiagnosed as Type 2 as there is no specific testing and they are just assumed to be Type 2 because other options are not investigated particularly if they are a certain age and perhaps carrying a bit too much weight. I think you are right that there are probably more Type 3cs that are diagnosed Type 2 and also slow onset Type 1s who are labelled Type 2 and never get tested to clarify their real Type.
 
Creon user here after being diagnosed with Exocrine Pancreatic Insuffiency about 5 years ago.
 
just a quickie ,had type 2 10 years ago, on metformin slow release . had pancreatitus 1 year ago spent a few days in hospital , re diagnosed with type 3c , rare ,now on insulin nova mix 30--70 twice a day also creon capsules for enzymes , pancreas no longer does its job. just had hbc1 done ,running a bit high 7.4 . and put on a bit of weight. I am 5ft 8 11stone 10lb. was 11stone, thats the enzymes, and my love of food. do not watch the calories ect, so I am happy with that number a little less bread and potatoes and that will come down.I was told that more people should be re examined for type , since there would be more type 3 and not type 2 as is the majority of diabetics.
I thought 3c was diagnosed when the pancreas was surgically removed?

I've been type1 for 57 years now have a cyst on my pancreas and have regular flare ups of pancreatitis oh and take creon.
 
I thought 3c was diagnosed when the pancreas was surgically removed?

I've been type1 for 57 years now have a cyst on my pancreas and have regular flare ups of pancreatitis oh and take creon.

My understanding also, never been told I'm type 3.
 
I thought 3c was diagnosed when the pancreas was surgically removed?

I've been type1 for 57 years now have a cyst on my pancreas and have regular flare ups of pancreatitis oh and take creon.

From what I understand Type 3c is damage to the pancreas either by disease or surgical procedure.
Type 1 is autoimmune of course as you know.

I imagine it is possible to have Type 1 and Type 3c, but being labelled Type 1 is probably better so that you get access to whatever cutting edge technology is available without having to argue your case so much. I think Type 3c is becoming more widely recognized and understood, but there will be Type 3cs who manage on Metformin and/or other oral medication possibly for many years and others who need insulin immediately, whereas a Type 1 will need insulin pretty much from the start.
 
rebrascora.
I am over joyed on finding this forum on diabetes. If I may add that the medication metformin slow release , I believe had a detrimental effect over the years resulting in a deterioration of the pancreas. I have since learnt that the slow release part has high levels of ndma stated by fda. And any one taking this should discuss with there medic an alternative. I
believe that this is still being given out .
 
Once 3c develops to needing insulin the sooner a classic T1 insulin regime is adopted - the better for the patient! Yes it's a bit of a PITA having to have more jabs when you ain't used to having any - but if you happen to want to have any flexibility in your lifestyle eg eating at random times with differing amounts of carbohydrate - or ditto exercise - WELL worth it.
 
From what I understand Type 3c is damage to the pancreas either by disease or surgical procedure.

Yes that’s my understanding too @rebrascora

Surgery, injury, pancreatitis and other damage to the pancreas

There are a few options here:

Welcome to the forum @s.e london

I absolutely get what you say about types, and especially about the rarer types. Forum regulars have developed a pretty good nose for newbies who arrive and who describe their diagnosis story and there are a few ‘red flags’ in what they say that seem to suggest further enquiries would be helpful. Not all clinics seem very familiar with type 3c, and T2 is often the default classification for anyone who is not a child!
 
Hi @s.e london
I'm another Type 3c following pancreatitis. I'm listed as Type 1 in some places and Type 3c in others. My local hospital understand 3c but my medical ID band is for Type 1 as that's how I need to be treated and I don't want any confusion in an emergency!
 
Hello from me @s.e london,

I'm a Type 3c following total removal of my pancreas in Feb 2020. As has been clarified by various people damage to the pancreas, not just total pancreas removal, leads to a diagnosis of T3c. Just to confuse matters I was formally discharged after my surgery categorised as T1: even though I had no previous history of diabetes and I certainly hadn't just developed an auto-immune condition!

T3c doesn't always lead to needing insulin. Indeed there is at least one member of this forum who had surgery because of her pancreatitis and seems to be managing well with just metformin. So it's a case of how much damage has the pancreas suffered. That said you are on insulin and I agree having the classic basal / bolus MDI regime gives me the lifestyle flexibility that I appreciate.

The conundrum that you might find is that because you were originally T2, now T3c after your pancreatitis, you might not find yourself transferred from GP overview to a specialist Hospital based team, which is generally only for T1, not T2. Before the NICE Guidance Notes were revised earlier this year, you would have struggled to be considered for Libre 2, the Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM). However, there are improved opportunities now for T2s to be considered for Libre; but there is far less guidance for T3cs in general and I suspect, even though you are now on mixed insulin, you will need the active involvement of a DSN and/or Endocrinologist to help you get the fuller spectrum of support that you could aspire to as an insulin dependent diabetic. It is all a bit unsatisfactory, but since T3cs are still relatively scarce (and frequently medical people have not heard of this diabetic classification) there are relatively few precedents.

Creon is a relatively common medication for people who have Pancreatic Enzyme Insufficiency (often described as Pancreatic Enzyme Replacement Therapy (PERT) ). PERT is important if that part of your pancreas which creates digestive enzymes has been damaged by the pancreatitis. But needing Creon is not a clincher for securing 'upgraded' diabetes support; I've met a number of people who are prescribed Creon, and who are not diabetic. But for those who need Creon the capsules are not only essential for ensuring regular bowel functions, but have a significant bearing on the digestion of any carbs eaten and thus insulin dosing. I suffered from malabsorption for about 18 months, so despite rigorously carb counting my blood glucose control was very erratic - to say the least. The Creon didn't help my malabsorption, a different problem needing a special antibiotic, but if you eat and simply don't digest then there is little chance of balancing the carbs and insulin; diabetes management just becomes a guessing game!

@soupdragon's comments about being categorised as T3c but with a T1 medical ID band is very pertinent. I've made sure all my identifiers show me as an insulin dependent T3c.

Finally pancreatic damage can affect not just insulin production and digestive enzymes: your pancreas produces vitamins A, D, E and K; along with the hormone Glucagon which is used by your brain to tell the liver to open the glucose store, when your brain detects that your BG is low - your brain has no means of communicating with your liver! And the hormone somatostatin comes uniquely from your pancreas - which plays a role "adjudicating" or balancing between insulin and glucagon.
 
Hello from me @s.e london,

I'm a Type 3c following total removal of my pancreas in Feb 2020. As has been clarified by various people damage to the pancreas, not just total pancreas removal, leads to a diagnosis of T3c. Just to confuse matters I was formally discharged after my surgery categorised as T1: even though I had no previous history of diabetes and I certainly hadn't just developed an auto-immune condition!

T3c doesn't always lead to needing insulin. Indeed there is at least one member of this forum who had surgery because of her pancreatitis and seems to be managing well with just metformin. So it's a case of how much damage has the pancreas suffered. That said you are on insulin and I agree having the classic basal / bolus MDI regime gives me the lifestyle flexibility that I appreciate.

The conundrum that you might find is that because you were originally T2, now T3c after your pancreatitis, you might not find yourself transferred from GP overview to a specialist Hospital based team, which is generally only for T1, not T2. Before the NICE Guidance Notes were revised earlier this year, you would have struggled to be considered for Libre 2, the Continuous Glucose Monitor (CGM). However, there are improved opportunities now for T2s to be considered for Libre; but there is far less guidance for T3cs in general and I suspect, even though you are now on mixed insulin, you will need the active involvement of a DSN and/or Endocrinologist to help you get the fuller spectrum of support that you could aspire to as an insulin dependent diabetic. It is all a bit unsatisfactory, but since T3cs are still relatively scarce (and frequently medical people have not heard of this diabetic classification) there are relatively few precedents.

Creon is a relatively common medication for people who have Pancreatic Enzyme Insufficiency (often described as Pancreatic Enzyme Replacement Therapy (PERT) ). PERT is important if that part of your pancreas which creates digestive enzymes has been damaged by the pancreatitis. But needing Creon is not a clincher for securing 'upgraded' diabetes support; I've met a number of people who are prescribed Creon, and who are not diabetic. But for those who need Creon the capsules are not only essential for ensuring regular bowel functions, but have a significant bearing on the digestion of any carbs eaten and thus insulin dosing. I suffered from malabsorption for about 18 months, so despite rigorously carb counting my blood glucose control was very erratic - to say the least. The Creon didn't help my malabsorption, a different problem needing a special antibiotic, but if you eat and simply don't digest then there is little chance of balancing the carbs and insulin; diabetes management just becomes a guessing game!

@soupdragon's comments about being categorised as T3c but with a T1 medical ID band is very pertinent. I've made sure all my identifiers show me as an insulin dependent T3c.

Finally pancreatic damage can affect not just insulin production and digestive enzymes: your pancreas produces vitamins A, D, E and K; along with the hormone Glucagon which is used by your brain to tell the liver to open the glucose store, when your brain detects that your BG is low - your brain has no means of communicating with your liver! And the hormone somatostatin comes uniquely from your pancreas - which plays a role "adjudicating" or balancing between insulin and glucagon.
se london.
great post . one question that you may be able to answer does nova mix 30.70 with the ingredient aspart cause pain in the calves
 
se london.
great post . one question that you may be able to answer does nova mix 30.70 with the ingredient aspart cause pain in the calves
Hello again @s.e london, I'm really sorry I know very little about Novamix and can't directly help you. I see you've asked this question, slightly obliquely, in the thread DIY Metformin Control and not making too much headway there.
You could give this one further try by posting a new thread asking the specific question: does anyone have experience of Novamix 30:70 causing calf pains? But I suspect you might not have further success; lots of members read much of the forum content, even if you aren't seeing their active participation.

Do you have a named DSN or Endocrolnologist? Could you email there and ask?
 
@s.e london have you read the patient information leaflet that comes with all medication including your insulin?
It will lost all the potential side effects and should be more reliable than a group of strangers who could have leg pain due to many different reasons and unrelated conditions.
 
Insulin aspart is also prescribed on its on as NovoRapid - which many forum users use, including me.

I’ve not had calf pain associated with it myself.

However some members, newly started on insulin, find that a rapid change / reduction in their average BG levels towards their target range (having previously been running high for months or years) can give rise to temporary nerve pain, sometimes called transient neuropathy or insulin induced neuritis.
 
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