• Please Remember: Members are only permitted to share their own experiences. Members are not qualified to give medical advice. Additionally, everyone manages their health differently. Please be respectful of other people's opinions about their own diabetes management.
  • We seem to be having technical difficulties with new user accounts. If you are trying to register please check your Spam or Junk folder for your confirmation email. If you still haven't received a confirmation email, please reach out to our support inbox: support.forum@diabetes.org.uk

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?

Status
This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.

andyp64

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
My BG on waking today was 5.1. Pleased with that 🙂
I've done 10000+ steps today.
For breakfast:- x2 slices wholemeal toast with thin spread of benecol (approx. 400 cals)
For lunch:- chicken mayo sandwich in wholemeal bread (approx. 500 cals).
  • BG before dinner = 5.3
For dinner:- 100g low-fat chips, x4 fish-fingers and some iceberg lettuce (approx 500 cals).
  • BG at two hours = 11.6 - Panic!!!!

Also had about five cups of tea (x3 normal; x2 de-caff); all with skimmed milk and no sugar.

I've taken my meds (x3 500mg Sukkarto SR). Weight now down to 11st 11 - BMI nearly on target.

I really don't understand the spike!
Can anyone suggest why?
Something wrong with diet?
Meds not right?

Feeling a bit deflated....

Andy
 
Andy, don't be defeated. You just need to make some tweaks. I think your dinner was way more carbohydrate rich than the other meals.

I've googled and this is what you had:
Breakfast: x2 slices wholemeal toast - 24g carbs
Lunch: chicken mayo sandwich in wholemeal bread - 24g carbs
Dinner: 100g low-fat chips - 53g carbs
x4 fish-fingers - 21g carbs
iceberg lettuce 3g carbs

Drinks: five cups of tea 10g carbs
Could you make an omelette to go with the chicken mayo instead of the bread, or just have the iceberg lettuce with it, wrapped round the chicken?

It's carbohydrates that will push up your BG, you seemed to be fine with the 24g each for breakfast and lunch, but then pushed past what you could cope with at dinner with 77g.
 
Congratulations on your waking BG, that looks admirable!
Have you had a look on "what did you eat yesterday?" to see what others are eating? The T2s may be on different medications, but I find it interesting to see what others have (so I can shamelessly steal their foody ideas!).
Also, maybe worth getting a copy of Carbs and Cals to see how much you're getting with particular foods. I wonder if potatoes don't suit you, or if you can cope with a smaller portion size?

But keep going and don't be downhearted. Keep tweaking your meals until you find a combination that doesn't spike you.
Sarah
 
For breakfast:- x2 slices wholemeal toast with thin spread of benecol (approx. 400 cals)
For lunch:- chicken mayo sandwich in wholemeal bread (approx. 500 cals).
  • BG before dinner = 5.3
For dinner:- 100g low-fat chips, x4 fish-fingers and some iceberg lettuce (approx 500 cals).
  • BG at two hours = 11.6 - Panic!!!!
Also had about five cups of tea (x3 normal; x2 de-caff); all with skimmed milk and no sugar.
As Windy advised it is the carbs which matter, not the calories. I have highlighted the foods which lead to spikes; there might also be excessive carbs in some fish fingers breading. Note that you did not test at the right time to see your post-breakfast and post-lunch spikes. Please read both of these:
 
You seem to have the idea that it is the fat which should be reduced - not the carbohydrate.
Starches and sugars are carbohydrates, they elevate the blood glucose, and that is the problem for a type 2 diabetic.
I do not eat bread, chips or breading as they are starches. I don't use milk, as it contains lactose, a sugar. I drink coffee with cream or tea without any addition.
 
As Windy advised it is the carbs which matter, not the calories. I have highlighted the foods which lead to spikes; there might also be excessive carbs in some fish fingers breading. Note that you did not test at the right time to see your post-breakfast and post-lunch spikes. Please read both of these:
I am somewhat confused now as ever since looking on the forum the message has been to test 2 hours post meal. Is what you are suggesting that as an individual you should be testing say every 30min after eating to find when your peak would be.
Surely this would be different for different foods so how would you decide what would be the correct time to test for you.
 
To start with I did my waking BG - which counted for pre-breakfast, then another test 2 hours later, same procedure for lunch and dinner. That way you can see any spikes and, if you keep an online food diary (a free one is fine), you can always check back and see what was fine, what spike was ok and which ones you need to take action on.
Yes the calories are not that important, it is your daily carb intake that you need to concentrate on - ensuring that you don't pass your daily carb limit. You will lose weight from eating lower carbs too, so it can be a win-win.
 
As Windy advised it is the carbs which matter, not the calories. I have highlighted the foods which lead to spikes; there might also be excessive carbs in some fish fingers breading. Note that you did not test at the right time to see your post-breakfast and post-lunch spikes. Please read both of these:
The advice given by most on this forum for some time has been to test before and 2 hours from the start of the meal. I am not entirely clear, but I think your 1 hour is from the end of the meal. Depends a bit how long the meal lasts, but the difference may be less than the hour it seems. There are going to be a lot of confused newbies on here..... Personally, I doubt if it makes a lot of difference, so long as people are consistent.
 
I am somewhat confused now as ever since looking on the forum the message has been to test 2 hours post meal. Is what you are suggesting that as an individual you should be testing say every 30min after eating to find when your peak would be.
Surely this would be different for different foods so how would you decide what would be the correct time to test for you.
Thirty minutes is utter nonsense.
Testing should be consistent at two hours after eating.
This site seems to being completely bombarded by links to unapproved blogs at the moment.
I refuse to click through.
Far too many blogs are clickbait or IP harvesting, so I haven't read it.
On my phone at the moment, I'll look on my laptop tomorrow, which will pull the site apart, and is fully locked down.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thirty minutes is utter nonsense.
Testing should be consistent at two hours after eating.
This site seems to being completely bombarded by links to unapproved blogs at the moment.
I refuse to click through.
Far too many blogs are clickbate or IP harvesting, so I haven't read it.
On my phone at the moment, I'll look on my laptop tomorrow, which will pull the site apart, and is fully locked down.
What was confusing me was the OP said he tested at 2 hours but then the comment was that he had not tested at the right time to see the post meal spikes.
I was questioning how you would determine the 'right' time and yes surely being consistent with the testing is the best way.
 
What was confusing me was the OP said he tested at 2 hours but then the comment was that he had not tested at the right time to see the post meal spikes.
I was questioning how you would determine the 'right' time and yes surely being consistent with the testing is the best way.
It does seem an odd link, and I did boot up the laptop tonight instead.
I get a security warning. It may be nothing, but I don't tell third parties my IP address, I don't tell them my user agent, and I don't take cookies from that sort of site.
And I certainly think it's not advice I'd take.
Two hours is correct.
 
What was confusing me was the OP said he tested at 2 hours but then the comment was that he had not tested at the right time to see the post meal spikes.
I was questioning how you would determine the 'right' time and yes surely being consistent with the testing is the best way.
He only gave testing results of before and after his dinner, he didn't query breakfast or lunch as, I presume, there was no big spike as found after dinner - or maybe that was the only test he had done other than his waking BG.
That's how I read it anyway.
Yes I have always understood that you test 2 hours after the first fork goes into your mouth - I think I read somewhere that is how it works for sick days, even if you are sick, the carbs still enter your bloodstream. I sure know it works that way for me and olive oil - spitting it out is already too late, the damage is done :(
 
I am somewhat confused now as ever since looking on the forum the message has been to test 2 hours post meal. Is what you are suggesting that as an individual you should be testing say every 30min after eating to find when your peak would be.
Surely this would be different for different foods so how would you decide what would be the correct time to test for you.
I use links to the blog for brevity but in this case I will post the full version written back in 2006. I hope this answers your question.

When we first received our brand new blood glucose meter the majority of us were told by our doctor or qualified diabetes educators to test twice daily - before breakfast, also known as "fasting" and before the evening meal. Some, not many, of us were also told to test occasionally two hours after meals.

The "us" I speak of are the thousands of newly diagnosed type 2's I've met in cyberspace over the past four years. Over that time, in three diabetes usenet newsgroups, eight Yahoo diabetes newsgroups and a couple of others via the web, I have yet to meet a single newby who was told by their doctor to test one hour after every meal or snack. In fact I've only recently met a few who were advised to test one hour after any meal at all.

So, why do I recommend that we should? Well, I must admit - it wasn't my idea; I learnt it from Jennifer and her Test, Test, Test advice. I also learnt from Derek Paice and his e-book Diabetes and Diet

Any test is wasted if it neither informs nor confirms some information. The tests prescribed by your medics are designed to help them analyse your progress, to assist in their decisions for your treatment - but they do very little to help you personally manage your diabetes. The doctor wants to see your "static" numbers, not the ones that might be very high or low as a result of the carbs you ate, or ignored, at your last meal.

And that's why I add those one-hour post-prandial (after-eating) tests - they help me directly. They are the "dynamic" numbers that showed the direct effect of the food I ate and the exercise I did. I call them one-hour, but the real term should be "peak" or maximum "spike"; mine is one-hour but you'll have to find your own.

I don't think the timing of the spike is as important as it's peak level and duration.

Think about it logically. Why would a spike of 10(180) affect you any differently if it occurred at 30, 60, 90 or 120 minutes? It's duration would be a factor - but post-prandial timing of the actual peak should be irrelevant. It still got to that peak, no matter when it occurred.

So, I learned to find my peak. That is slightly different, but reasonably predictable, with different foods and meal mixtures. Drinks, like OJ, spike me very quickly within 30 minutes and drop just as quickly. Which is why some people use them as hypo treatment. Starchy carbs, without much fat, will spike me in 30-45 minutes. But add fat - and it's about 60 minutes. A normal meal combining moderate fat, protein and low GI carbs leads to a peak at 45-75 minutes for me, and so on. That's why I settled on using the 1hr post-prandial test as my guide, but I occasionally do a 30 minute one if the food was low-fat and high-GI.

As to whether a brief spike causes damage - not enough research has been done. There appears to also be a possibility that spikes have a damaging effect at lower thresholds for type 2 than type 1, partly from anecdotal discussions I've followed over the past four years and partly from the slight differences in results in studies like the DCCT and UKPDS. Let's face it - only type 2 have beta cells to lose anyway. Therefore I am swayed by the reports here, on Jenny's excellent web-page; there is enough evidence to convince me that staying under 8(140) is worth the effort - no matter when it occurs: Research Connecting Organ Damage with Blood Sugar Level

Of course, I tend to always aim a little tighter, so these days I set the level at 7(126) for my one-hour post-prandial maximum. What you do is up to you.
 
Its the fish fingers in my opinion, as if I have anything battered or breaded (even 2 fish fingers) i get a spike.
 
Hi @andyp64 as others have posted it’s the amount of carbs that shot your BS level’s up.

for years I didn’t realise how important it was for us T2‘s should eat a low carb diet, due to bad advice and lack of support from healthcare (so called professionals)

until that is I took my diabetes management more seriously and found this great forum.

My advice would be keep testing,
I’ve found it’s so important to understand what my body can tolerate (although I don’t always still eat the right things)
test before - and then 2 hrs after meal, if unsure if the meal will spike BS levels

As your 2 hr after your dinner was more than double the before @ 5.3
a lower carb dinner would’ve hopefully given the 2-3 units increase we would usually be aiming for.

I found the Carbs & Cals counter book a great help, in understanding carbs.
 
I noticed a mark lack of vegetables in your diet. Perhaps you could substitute them for some of the bread and potatoes, or have soup/salad instead or sandwiches. That would lower your carb intake.
 
I found this very useful
 

Attachments

  • E86E3FD0-D21E-480C-A7EA-D81EF2792010.jpeg
    E86E3FD0-D21E-480C-A7EA-D81EF2792010.jpeg
    59.1 KB · Views: 6
Thanks for all the replies!
Although there seems to be some debate about test times, one thing is consistent through all your posts - watch the carbs!
I'll get the carbs and cals book - especially as it has an OK from Diabetes UK.
 
Thanks for all the replies!
Although there seems to be some debate about test times, one thing is consistent through all your posts - watch the carbs!
I'll get the carbs and cals book - especially as it has an OK from Diabetes UK.

I like your style @andyp64. Deal with the big consistent things first before you worry about the detail!
 
You seem to have the idea that it is the fat which should be reduced - not the carbohydrate.
Starches and sugars are carbohydrates, they elevate the blood glucose, and that is the problem for a type 2 diabetic.
I do not eat bread, chips or breading as they are starches. I don't use milk, as it contains lactose, a sugar. I drink coffee with cream or tea without any addition.
Regarding the lactose/dairy production have you seen this https://drc.bmj.com/content/8/1/e000826
The study's conclusion:

"Conclusions Higher intake of whole fat (but not low fat) dairy was associated with a lower prevalence of MetS and most of its component factors, and with a lower incidence of hypertension and diabetes. Our findings should be evaluated in large randomized trials of the effects of whole fat dairy on the risks of MetS, hypertension, and diabetes."

What are your thoughts on this or how much do you think the dairy intake helped your sugars?
 
Status
This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
Back
Top