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Looking for other Type 3C people to talk to.

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This thread is now closed. Please contact Anna DUK, Ieva DUK or everydayupsanddowns if you would like it re-opened.
Long time type 1 then got diagnosed with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency 3 years ago. Take Creon with meals, mainly take same dose each time except for meals higher in protein & fat, for some reason this requires more.

At time of diagnosis consultant had good sense to request Dexa scan to check bone density, not absorbing food properly can lead to calcium deficiency which in turn can lead to osteoarthritis. Luckily scan picked up I was at stage before so was started on once weekly dose of alendronic acid & calcium tabs twice daily, to take this for 5years then stop.

So far so good, condition doesnt interfere with life that much, taking Creon along is just like picking up insulin bg meter glucose when going out.
 
Hi, Im Jason 53 from Surrey, I was diagnosed this year with Chronic Pancreatitis (asymptomatic, didnt know i had it for past 10+ years) and now Type 3C since April (symptoms started 72 hours after having my first Astra Zeneca Jab). I am taking Metformin, Statins along with Insulin (Novorapid (with meals) and Abasaglar at night).
Having very little quality time with the GPs/Diabetic Nurses ive been studying the internet and reading all the medical journals and to be honest its not very good news all round.
I was hoping to get to chat on line to others in the same boat and get some perspective from from people who have been on this road longer than i have. Thank You.

Regards Jason
Hi
 
Long time type 1 then got diagnosed with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency 3 years ago. Take Creon with meals, mainly take same dose each time except for meals higher in protein & fat, for some reason this requires more.

At time of diagnosis consultant had good sense to request Dexa scan to check bone density, not absorbing food properly can lead to calcium deficiency which in turn can lead to osteoarthritis. Luckily scan picked up I was at stage before so was started on once weekly dose of alendronic acid & calcium tabs twice daily, to take this for 5years then stop.

So far so good, condition doesnt interfere with life that much, taking Creon along is just like picking up insulin bg meter glucose when going out.
Hi
I am pretty much in the same boat as you. I was diagnosed as type2 10 years ago, then 4 years ago I was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis. So I am on abasaglsr and humolog, stations, creon, and D3/calcium. My CP gives me problems 3/4 times a month but pain never gives me the need to go to hospital, diarrhoea is the main problem. Injecting is getting me down but have to put up with it x
 
That sounds hard work managing with the Creon on top of the usual stuff, I hope i dont need that process just yet, not until ive got use to all the other parts of diabetes.
Ive not had too much interaction with the actual hospital (Frimley Park) so unsure what they have to offer me, I will certainly ask my GP for information. Does The Royal Surrey offer meetings etc where you meet other 3c etc to discuss the conditions and swap info/experiances? That would be great if those were available.
The Creon is very useful if needed. It will depend on how much and where the pancreatic damage is as to whether it is needed. If you're not losing weight that's looking good for you. Once the doses of Creon are sorted it's generally just a case of taking some with meals.

I did meet a couple of other 3cs at the carb counting course but there wasn't that much time to chat. There aren't any meetings for 3cs there that I'm aware of.
 
Long time type 1 then got diagnosed with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency 3 years ago. Take Creon with meals, mainly take same dose each time except for meals higher in protein & fat, for some reason this requires more.

At time of diagnosis consultant had good sense to request Dexa scan to check bone density, not absorbing food properly can lead to calcium deficiency which in turn can lead to osteoarthritis. Luckily scan picked up I was at stage before so was started on once weekly dose of alendronic acid & calcium tabs twice daily, to take this for 5years then stop.

So far so good, condition doesnt interfere with life that much, taking Creon along is just like picking up insulin bg meter glucose when going out.
Hi
Ive not heard of the Dexa scan or about bone density problems. (Diabetes, the gift that keeps giving!) I shall add that to my list of points to discuss with GP.
On the subject of Creon, its just tablet form that you take with each meal? I assume you only need this when you start to lose weight? or is there other syptems I should look out for?
 
Hi
I am pretty much in the same boat as you. I was diagnosed as type2 10 years ago, then 4 years ago I was diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis. So I am on abasaglsr and humolog, stations, creon, and D3/calcium. My CP gives me problems 3/4 times a month but pain never gives me the need to go to hospital, diarrhoea is the main problem. Injecting is getting me down but have to put up with it x
Hi Jaec
So from what i understand you would now be Type3C and not Type2 anymore? (because you had CP)
Can I ask, if your on Creon, why are you having diarrhoea problems, isnt creon ment to solve that side of it?
Sorry to hear about your CP Pains that must be awful......
 
The Creon is very useful if needed. It will depend on how much and where the pancreatic damage is as to whether it is needed. If you're not losing weight that's looking good for you. Once the doses of Creon are sorted it's generally just a case of taking some with meals.

I did meet a couple of other 3cs at the carb counting course but there wasn't that much time to chat. There aren't any meetings for 3cs there that I'm aware of.
Hi
Im not sure at all about what state my Pancreas is in, All ive been advise is that is looks 'withered' on the MRI. So far no weight loss and im eating most things (but following a good healthy diet) No Alcohol/Smoking etc.
Have you been on Creon since your diganosis? DId you have stomach (diarrhoea) issue also and has the Croen stopped this for you?

shame about the meeting for 3c etc I would have been very keen to get involved. Hopefully when I can get on the DAFNE course I will get a chance to meet others.
 
Hiya. Keep coming to dip my head in but getting distracted. I'm Nat, I'm 38 and got diagnosed with type 3c this summer after a couple of years of recurring acute pancreatitis.

I'm not on Creon, and at the moment aside from the diabetes my pancreas isn't causing me any bother thankfully.

I'm on basal insulin, but my pancreas appears to be functioning enough to not need bolus for the moment.

I'm still quite the newb really. But wanted to say hi to a fellow 3c!
 
Hiya. Keep coming to dip my head in but getting distracted. I'm Nat, I'm 38 and got diagnosed with type 3c this summer after a couple of years of recurring acute pancreatitis.

I'm not on Creon, and at the moment aside from the diabetes my pancreas isn't causing me any bother thankfully.

I'm on basal insulin, but my pancreas appears to be functioning enough to not need bolus for the moment.

I'm still quite the newb really. But wanted to say hi to a fellow 3c!
Hi Nat
Nice to meet you, only being on here a few days and meeting different people it does seem that everybody has their own levels of complications and aliments and medicines. Ive found this site so helpful, just having a few email messages is really helping me to understand our situation we have now found ourselves in.
Have you made many life changes since your diagnosis? and how are you coping with all this?
 
Hi
Ive not heard of the Dexa scan or about bone density problems. (Diabetes, the gift that keeps giving!) I shall add that to my list of points to discuss with GP.
On the subject of Creon, its just tablet form that you take with each meal? I assume you only need this when you start to lose weight? or is there other syptems I should look out for?

Creon is in capsule form, supplement rather than a drug.

Think if you know you've not been absorbing food properly for some time then scan is worth asking for.
 
Hi Nat
Nice to meet you, only being on here a few days and meeting different people it does seem that everybody has their own levels of complications and aliments and medicines. Ive found this site so helpful, just having a few email messages is really helping me to understand our situation we have now found ourselves in.
Have you made many life changes since your diagnosis? and how are you coping with all this?
Hi Jason. I was in a right tizz to start with. It was slow to get treatment started, and it's taken what feels like forever to get my blood sugar levels to a good point. But life has carried on, with new routines and it's all settling quite well to be honest. I do need to keep reducing my carb eating for sure but other than remembering to take my testing kit with me everywhere it doesn't feel like much has changed.

It helps that I'm not yet on Creon or bolus injections. Though I'm all to aware that may change in time.
 
Hi Jaec
So from what i understand you would now be Type3C and not Type2 anymore? (because you had CP)
Can I ask, if your on Creon, why are you having diarrhoea problems, isnt creon ment to solve that side of it?
Sorry to hear about your CP Pains that must be awful......
Yes type 3c now. Although, I’ve not seen a diabetic or endocrinologist consultant, my specialist diabetic nurse confirmed it. I would really like to speak to a consultant but sure if they could tell me any more.
Creon does work very well most of the time but diarrhoea can catch me out sometimes, then I up the dose.
 
Hi Jason. I was in a right tizz to start with. It was slow to get treatment started, and it's taken what feels like forever to get my blood sugar levels to a good point. But life has carried on, with new routines and it's all settling quite well to be honest. I do need to keep reducing my carb eating for sure but other than remembering to take my testing kit with me everywhere it doesn't feel like much has changed.

It helps that I'm not yet on Creon or bolus injections. Though I'm all to aware that may change in time.
Yes i was like you, it was a hell of a start and nothing seemed to work, then gradually things started falling into a routine and my numbers got better, although im still scratching my head sometimes when my numbers are high/low compared to the previous day and eating the same things.
Im learning the carb counting thing by myself and hope to go on a DAFANE course soon, but nobody has mentioned to me that I need to lower my carb intake? Why do you need to reduce your carb intake?
 
Yes type 3c now. Although, I’ve not seen a diabetic or endocrinologist consultant, my specialist diabetic nurse confirmed it. I would really like to speak to a consultant but sure if they could tell me any more.
Creon does work very well most of the time but diarrhoea can catch me out sometimes, then I up the dose.
Hi
Thats good to know that your Creon is working, i was worried it wasnt doing its job. Do you find that you lose weight easy and its hard to put weight on? or does the croen help with this also
 
Yes i was like you, it was a hell of a start and nothing seemed to work, then gradually things started falling into a routine and my numbers got better, although im still scratching my head sometimes when my numbers are high/low compared to the previous day and eating the same things.
Im learning the carb counting thing by myself and hope to go on a DAFANE course soon, but nobody has mentioned to me that I need to lower my carb intake? Why do you need to reduce your carb intake?
If you're carb counting for bolus injections, you don't need to reduce your carbs just inject appropriately.

I'm trying to reduce mine on na evening to stop me from going to bed with high sugars.
 
If you're carb counting for bolus injections, you don't need to reduce your carbs just inject appropriately.

I'm trying to reduce mine on na evening to stop me from going to bed with high sugars.
Aaah Yes of course, I should have guessed that. Sorry!
 
Aaah Yes of course, I should have guessed that. Sorry!
Hi @jsw, sorry I'm late to this dialogue - been distracted recently!

I'm a T3c, since Feb 2020 when I had a total pancreatectomy to arrest pancreatic cancer. After recovery from surgery I had some chemo and so didn't really start to grapple with my diabetes until late Oct. So my T3c is, I think, a bit different from others who've replied to you. You will read that we are all different and this applies just as much to the tiny group of T3cs as it does to the much larger groups of T1s and T2s.

No pancreas means no latent pancreatic interferences or surprises; but no pancreas means I have to manage all my missing pancreatic functions: I'm not only missing insulin, but 3 other hormones, of which (perhaps) glucagon is the next most important. Without Glucagon, at age 70+, I have negligible growth hormone and so really have only got adrenaline to stimulate my liver to release glucose into my system when I have low BG. Consequently my DM is extremely brittle (erratic); I have crashed from BG9.9 to 4.1 in less than 15mins. At that speed arresting the fall is effectively impossible. Before I had Libre 2, finger pricking simply didn't adequately inform me and I previously had some awkward lows! So, while in some ways as a T3c I have similarities with T1, eg certain insulin dependency; my problem has been that very few medically qualified people understand that T3c (or at least my T3c) is extremely difficult to manage and is NOT the same as most T1s. If you are not yet under a very competent Endocrinologist and a Diabetes Spec Nurse (DSN) you will find managing even more challenging. It would be rare for a GP's Surgery to have a DSN rather than a nurse designated within the Practice to be the focal point for diabetes; of all diabetics in UK c.90% are T2, 10 % T1 and T3cs are a miniscule percentage; practice nurses mainly deal with T2, since many T1s are under DSNs or have managed their condition for so long they know as almost as much as specialists. Without knowing where exactly you are in Surrey, you might consider asking Frimley if they would refer you to the Royal Surrey for the T3c specialists. You certainly need to have an Endocrinologist who understands T3c; your GP should have referred you already - but chances are your GP simply doesn't understand the significance of T3c. Mine didn't and I've since realised most don't; a recently retired GP friend freely admitted he was unaware of T3c differences until I told him my diagnosis; then he did some research. I have been extremely lucky that my Oxford surgical team from Feb '20 kept me on their books and after a recent surgical review in Oxford I now come under the Oxford Centre for Diabetes, Endocrinology and Metabolism. I live in Bucks.

All that said it is not all doom and gloom; but 20 months on I'm still finding that managing my DM is pretty full time. I'll return to that theme shortly.

I take Creon (on an industrial scale according to my gastroenterologist) to provide the necessary digestive enzymes that I can'tvget from my pancreas. I agree taking Creon is straightforward, albeit something else to remember at meal times. Several specialists have reassured me that there is no danger from taking too much Creon. The surgery has altered my internal plumbing, a bit, and it seems I "malabsorb" some of my food. So while I do weigh food and diligently carb count, if not all food is fully digested, the carb insulin ratios are more of an art rather than a science; this adds to my brittle diabetes. I did the BERTIE course on-line, no waiting list, which was fine; but I really appreciated the book "Think Like a Pancreas" by Gary Scheiner. He is a longstanding T1 and his book is unashamedly for insulin dependent diabetics; whilst he is American he conscientiously and most helpfully translates the US numbers into our UK/ European equivalents. He has a substantial segment on carb counting.

Libre 2 was a significant improvement on finger pricking and my DM became more manageable; but I came across the Diabox app which, on my android phone, now provides me with Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM) reading directly from Libre 2 and using Bluetooth Low Emission (BLE) and that is the real game changer. I eat all meals and snacks with one eye on my CGM; if the carb intake is too far behind the arrival of the bolus insulin, (timing is important) then I'll eat the high GI parts of my meal first and that often works. If the carbs have arrived before the insulin then I can either slow down or add more oil/ butter/cream and let the extra fats slow down the digestion. I'm not trying to keep my BG constant as I eat, just in range between 4 and 10. This is still not perfect, but far better than trying to flash scan my Libre 2 every couple of minutes! Diabox also has better alarms, provides a numerical value to any rise or fall and can be recalibrated to match actual BG - but of course only when there is little or no BG change; so I lean heavily on Diabox day and night. You will definitely need at least a DSN, if not a Consultant, to set up the review for you to have Libre 2; the good news is that I have seen only this week an announcement that NICE have confirmed that from now on all those entitled to Continous or Flash Glucose Monitoring will get it on the NHS - so that should end the post code lottery. I'll look for that reference on Friday (busy tomorrow).

This ramble brings me round to my latest view of DM: I liken it to managing 3 strands of a rope, which needs all 3 strands for best performance.
Firstly there is the basic mechanics of taking carbs (counting etc) and insulin (dosing/injecting/timings). Secondly there is medical knowledge: knowing more about one's metabolism helps with the basic mechanics; understanding which carbs have higher or lower GI allows some refinement; understanding how the weather, activity, stress etc affects DM helps explain (even if retrospectively) why a day went badly or better - helps pre-empt bad days!
Thirdly technology: just viewing Libre 2 continuously through Diabox opened my eyes to the wider potential of even more technology. I feel I'm ready to explore asking for a pump; I'm happy that I know how to manage old school (finger pricking and Multiple Daily Injections (MDI)) but the speed at which our mobiles have advanced in the last 10 years means there is every chance the DM technology will step up, even if not so quickly. My immediate next step is to get my Diabox app displayed on a Smart Watch - so I'm not walking around with my phone permanently in my hand!

So there is a huge amount to get your mind around. But it is possible that some (arguably much) of what I've learnt since Nov '20 is now becoming reasonably well ingrained in my daily life. I also believe that "Knowledge helps Dispel Fear". Despite lots of knowledge sometimes seeming confusing, I find I can often think back and explain to myself why I had a bad day. I certainly find my diagnosis less frightening, but still at times intimidating. I now just need to remember the lessons learnt and apply them !!

I hope some of this helps.
 
I have asked for the Libre but I think i have a fight for that but im not going to give up. I have now a meeting with a consultant in FEB so im hoping he will be able to help me with connecting with more spefiic help/courses/etc.
Ive never heard of PERT before, so unsure what that is, When i was diagnosed in April this year, i had lost 12 kilos in 8 weeks from 85kilos to 72kilos, but since ive started my insulins/tablets etc i have now got my weight back which im very pleased about.
what are your main struggles?
It seems to me that waiting until Feb to see a Consultant is a long time to be managing without specialist help. There will be a diabetes team at Frimley Park. I suggest you phone or email them and ask for more immediate help; some dept's don't give email addresses, but leaving a phone message will get a response. I suspect that you need more immediate DSN support, rather than the higher level overview of a Consultant.

When I was discharged from hospital, after my pancreatectomy, I was given by the hospital initial bolus dosing amounts for breakfast, lunch and dinner - regardless of what I was actually eating. I'd met my DSN the day after discharge and I kept a logbook; I photographed my logbook pages every fortnight and sent these to her by email. She responded immediately and tweaked my prescriptive dosing regime, fortnightly. She also adjusted my slow, basal, dosing a couple of times. This is actually very important; if your basal is wrong, your bolus is always going to be trying to correct your slow release basal as well as balancing your food intake.

My DSN was able to do this using her experience, even though I wasn't carb counting. I recognised that, if I was consistent with my meals, her efforts in regulating me would be even better. So I adopted a largish, high carb breakfast (cereal, fruit, seeds and nuts), a repeatable lunch, (ie 2 slices of bread or toast with a protein filler such as cheese, meat or tinned fish; a latte and usually a small packet of crisps), then a simple supper/dinner (meat or fish, potatoes and peas). From this I was getting a balanced diet but broadly similar day by day, yet a varied diet. It didn't matter what the diet was, nor the variation in meal sizes - just being a bit consistent and thus allowing the bolus dosing to approximately match my daily routine - yet NOT carb counting at this stage.

If you have a DSN assisting you at this early stage, he or she will not only give you confidence in what you are doing, but can raise a report on you just before you meet your Consultant in Feb - who should then be better informed about your unique circumstances. The DSN can recommend to the Consultant that you should try Libre 2; with that recommendation the Consultant is already "positioned" to agree, rather than waiting a few more months ....... BUT be aware that although Libre 2 is a huge help it can and does fail sometimes; there is no substitute for knowing how to do the basics on your own: ie finger-pricking and adjusting accordingly. My DSN gave me guidance on bolus corrections, not just for daily highs and lows, but also when I was having sick days. One consequence of DM is that when you are going down with something, eg a cold (or worse) your BG misbehaves and runs high as your body tries to fight the future illness; I know 24-48 hrs in advance that I'm about to be ill! That knowledge makes the otherwise inexplicable high BG less frightening.

Do try to get a DSN tied in to you as soon as you can; I found that invaluable.
 
Dear Proud to be erratic

Firstly thank you so much for your in depth story and knowledge of the condition. I see that your journey so far has been in depth and challenging however I sense a clear determination to overcome and meet the multiple challenges thrown at you daily.
I too firmly believe in Technology being the way to manage this disease and take control back.

I have taken many notes from your messages and will raise these with the consultant in Feb, I do feel that the Libre 2 will be available to me, once I have completed the DAFNE course (I'm currently on the waiting list with Frimley Park for this since October so hopefully will get this early 2022).

I will most defiantly enquire about the 3c specialist team in Guildford, as I must say the DN team in Camberley are whilst friendly have zero knowledge of 3C, in fact that also goes for the GP's. Talking to a DSN would be wonderful. (I was told by my local DN in October that she doesn't need to see me again and that I just need to remember to book my HbA1c blood tests every 3 months! I was and still am mortified that Im just left to cope on my own).

However coping on my own I am, I carb count and figure out my insulin dose and 80-90% of the time I'm staying on track, having the 'how did that happen' results every day or two. The DAFNE course I think will be of huge benefit when it comes.

Ive not heard of the DIABOX App before so thank you for that info, I'll look into that once/if I get my Libre 2.

Yes, already got the 'Think Like a Pancreas' Book, and intend to get through that over the Christmas Holidays.

I would point out that joining this forum has been of great benefit to me as this is the only connection I have with other diabetics albeit T1's T2's or 3C's which has helped me since joining to get the feeling of not being alone.

I do hope to hear from you again from time to time and wish you all the luck and positive energy for the fight ahead.

Thank You
 
Dear Proud to be erratic

Firstly thank you so much for your in depth story and knowledge of the condition.
You are most welcome; I was slightly worried that I'd overcooked the info! But I read it again and decided that after 2+ weeks you might be OK with the "indepth" approach.
I was and still am mortified that Im just left to cope on my own).

However coping on my own I am, I carb count and figure out my insulin dose and 80-90% of the time I'm staying on track, having the 'how did that happen' results every day or two.
Thank You
Yes, I was mortified for you about being left on your own. That's why I suggested you prod the Frimley Park diabetes team.
But we'll done for coping; take an extra pat on the back! It's not easy at first and I still have days when I think *!# as well as why???

A big problem for me is that I can go well below 4 quickly, while driving. The CGM warns me, and I always have jelly babies in an easy to reach place. I'm deducing that stress from driving in busy conditions is probably the cause.

One thing I didn't say, was about my weight. I am 73kg, which is ideal for me. A bit less and I look like my late father (in his coffin) and a bit more then nothing fits! I've been very stable at that weight more-or-less since the surgery. This means I can eat anything and everything without needing to worry about putting on weight. My malabsorption is being treated by a Gastroenterologist and I'm part way through a 2 week course of unusual antibiotics; he had to get approval from somewhere before he could prescribe them. They are helping now and if that continues, then I might find my weight changes (or I have to be more prudent about what I eat). Before I was referred for the Gastro consult, I had access to a Macmillan dietician after my chemo, then a dietician from the Bucks diabetes team, then a dietician from the HPB Surgical team in Oxford. This gave me lots of extra knowledge about diet and general metabolism, but no resolution - hence the Gastro consult.

My point in mentioning this is that I find some people are wrestling with weight control and so are not only carb counting for their DM, but carb restraining for their weight control. Your body (your brain in particular) needs glucose, which it normally gets from carbs. But if the carb intake is very small then your body will convert proteins and fats into glucose; this might seem OK but it introduces a couple of distractions: the conversion rate is roughly 2 proteins for 1 carb, but that can differ for different people; and it introduces the ketone problem, a by- product of the conversion. So I avoid those distractions by always having at least 30 gm CHO with any main meal (frequently more, but it seems that 30 is sufficient to stop the protein or fat conversion) and some CHO with any snack. I know that I'm fortunate to not need to constrain my carb intake. I also love extra butter, oil or cream with any food; all 3 dieticians have said fine - my blood tests show my cholesterol is well under control.

As a matter of curiosity how frequently do you finger prick?
 
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