Checking level when driving

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Exactly as you said, you can drive below 5.0, it’s only below 4.0 that you need to stop and wait 45 minutes.
“Your finger prick glucose level must be at least 5.0 mmol/L before returning to driving”

However, rather than concerning myself with the letter of the law I prefer to concentrate on avoiding hypos in the first place, as @Amity Island so rightly says

Isn’t it better to know that you are at 5.0 and therefore in a position to be able to find a safe place to stop and snack, than to risk having to stop in a unsafe spot because you have hypo symptoms?
 
We also have to bear in mind what affect driving has on our levels.
As I usually walk most places, I don't drive very often. As a result, I only drive long distances to places I don't know which can be stressful and lead to my levels rising.
Whilst the law does not mention having atop limit to blood sugars. I am conscious that I get lethargic/sleepy over 10.
I do not watch my levels whilst driving - I am hypo aware and do not want any distractions. But I do stop and check my levels every 2 hours with the potential rise in mind.
 
From DVLA guide to insulin-treated diabetes and driving:

Advice on managing hypoglycaemia or developing hypoglycaemia at times relevant to driving
• In each case if your glucose is 5.0mmol/L or less, eat a snack. If it is less than 4.0mmol/L or you feel hypoglycaemic do not drive.
• If hypoglycaemia develops while driving stop the vehicle safely as soon as possible.
• You should switch off the engine, remove the keys from the ignition and move from the driver’s seat.
• You should not start driving again until 45 minutes after finger prick glucose has returned to normal (at least 5.0mmol/L). It takes up to 45 minutes for the brain to recover fully.
• If you use a real time (RT-CGM) or flash glucose monitoring (FGM) system to check your glucose levels and the reading is 4.0mmol/L or below, you must stop driving and confirm your finger prick glucose test reading.
• Your finger prick glucose level must be at least 5.0mmol/L before returning to driving.

Screenshot of my xDrip4iOS display:
View attachment 22296

Visible at all times and actually larger figures than my speedo! (shocking graph - pizza & wine)
Expanding on a point I made earlier in this thread, here is a link to information on another iPhone app which can link to Libre and make blood sugar information available on an Apple Watch. https://oddhogg.com/connecting-the-libre-2-to-a-smart-watch/

As the above link explains, it makes this available on the Apple Watch by adding an event to your calendar at timed intervals - I think the default is every 15 minutes but it can be changed. You then pick a watch face which shows the calendar as a complication (Apple's term, not mine).

So, theoretically, if your vehicle supports Apple CarPlay, as many modern vehicles do, then you could periodically check your blood sugar by just pressing the calendar button in Apple CarPlay. Since you're not interacting directly with your phone, then you would still be within the spirit and letter of the legislation, I think?

This will not work for me, personally, because I stick to using a standalone Android phone running XDrip+ to monitor my levels. Plus, I think I would find it distracting. Right now, I can easily check my Android watch when I am stopped at a light or at the shops, or whatever. If anything seems off, I do a finger-prick test for verification, since my faith in Libre is limited.

As ever, I hope this information is helpful.
 
“Your finger prick glucose level must be at least 5.0 mmol/L before returning to driving”

However, rather than concerning myself with the letter of the law I prefer to concentrate on avoiding hypos in the first place, as @Amity Island so rightly says

Isn’t it better to know that you are at 5.0 and therefore in a position to be able to find a safe place to stop and snack, than to risk having to stop in a unsafe spot because you have hypo symptoms?
This is only following a hypo. If you have gone below 4.0 you can’t drive until you’re 5.0+. If you haven’t gone under 4.0 then you can drive in the 4s so long as you snacked before setting off.
 
This is only following a hypo. If you have gone below 4.0 you can’t drive until you’re 5.0+. If you haven’t gone under 4.0 then you can drive in the 4s so long as you snacked before setting off.
"In each case if your glucose is 5.0mmol/L or less, eat a snack. If it is less than 4.0mmol/L or you feel hypoglycaemic do not drive"

Personally I would not dream of setting off to drive at 5.0 without that snack. You do what you want, but if you think "This means we are not talking very low bgs where you might suddenly pass out here, we’re talking noticing when you’re in the low 4s or high 3s" then you are a) disregarding the guidance which you undertook to abide by when you applied for your licence; and b) putting yourself and others at risk. I cannot for the life of me see what your objection is to keeping an eye on your levels in order to prevent this.
 
Good morning all. In order to satisfy my own curiosity, earlier this morning I tested the process of showing blood sugar on my car's dashboard using Apple CarPlay. The process worked as I expected. I documented it in the attached PDF, in case any of you happen to be interested.
 

Attachments

"In each case if your glucose is 5.0mmol/L or less, eat a snack. If it is less than 4.0mmol/L or you feel hypoglycaemic do not drive"

Personally I would not dream of setting off to drive at 5.0 without that snack. You do what you want, but if you think "This means we are not talking very low bgs where you might suddenly pass out here, we’re talking noticing when you’re in the low 4s or high 3s" then you are a) disregarding the guidance which you undertook to abide by when you applied for your licence; and b) putting yourself and others at risk. I cannot for the life of me see what your objection is to keeping an eye on your levels in order to prevent this.
I’m not disregarding the rules. There’s a difference between the level you set off at to have a safe journey (4+, with a snack if 4-5), and the level at which you must be able to notice symptoms (low 4s or high 3s), without relying on a sensor, and pull over to increase your blood glucose. You aren’t expected to feel hypo symptoms at 5 and stop, because that isn’t a low bg, most people feel fine at 5
 
At the moment legislation leaves driving open to a hypo. The sticking point is not been able to scan whilst driving. The libre 3 or 4 may overcome this.

Fortune favours the prepared.
The part no one seems to understand is that if you’re relying on the libre to know you’re going hypo then you shouldn’t be driving at all. Yes the libre is useful for making sure your bg is safe before you set off, but you should be doing the preparation before driving and then be confident in relying on your own hypo awareness during the journey. Sensors aren’t completely accurate, relying on them, needing to look at them during the journey, and trusting the sensor over your own hypo awareness is the inappropriate part of this.
 
The part no one seems to understand is that if you’re relying on the libre to know you’re going hypo then you shouldn’t be driving at all. Yes the libre is useful for making sure your bg is safe before you set off, but you should be doing the preparation before driving and then be confident in relying on your own hypo awareness during the journey. Sensors aren’t completely accurate, relying on them, needing to look at them during the journey, and trusting the sensor over your own hypo awareness is the inappropriate part of this.
No one is saying that. The whole point of Libre alarms is to warn you BEFORE you go hypo - you don’t set them at the same level you get symptoms, but higher to allow time to take action to avoid a hypo altogether. This is the part you don’t seem to understand.

Of course hypo awareness is important - but having fewer hypos is a damn sight better!
 
No one is saying that. The whole point of Libre alarms is to warn you BEFORE you go hypo - you don’t set them at the same level you get symptoms, but higher to allow time to take action to avoid a hypo altogether. This is the part you don’t seem to understand.

Of course hypo awareness is important - but having fewer hypos is a damn sight better!
As i've explained you cant rely on alarms whilst driving as you can't look at the libre whilst driving. You need to act before you set off, and pull over to check if you feel bg dropping.
 
As i've explained you cant rely on alarms whilst driving as you can't look at the libre whilst driving. You need to act before you set off, and pull over to check if you feel bg dropping.
And as I've explained, I do have my Libre readings visible at all times via a 3rd party app. I can see immediately if I have dropped below 5 and that gives me the time and opportunity to pull up safely and have a snack before I'm anywhere near hypo territory. Incidentally, the point of an alarm is that it makes a noise as well, so that makes two kinds of alert!
 
And as I've explained, I do have my Libre readings visible at all times via a 3rd party app. I can see immediately if I have dropped below 5 and that gives me the time and opportunity to pull up safely and have a snack before I'm anywhere near hypo territory. Incidentally, the point of an alarm is that it makes a noise as well, so that makes two kinds of alert!
This is irrelevant though, as the OP asking the question isn't able to differentiate what all the different pump and sensor alarm sounds mean. None of your arguments change the fact that it’s illegal for them to scan their sensor or interact with their pump whilst driving, so they need to rely on hypo awareness and pull over to check their blood sugar.
 
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This is irrelevant though, as the OP asking the question isn't able to differentiate what all the different pump and sensor alarm sounds mean
The OP - to whom I apologise for my part in taking this thread in directions he probably never anticipated - was enquiring about ways of viewing his readings while driving. I explained my solution. It works with or without alarms, but any alarm would prompt you to check the screen: you don’t have to distinguish between sounds. Alerts on your car dashboard work in much the same way - I had one for low tyre pressure the other day.
 
Tyre pressure is exactly the same. You don’t rely on a warning light coming on to tell you that there’s a problem, you check them before long journeys and top up at appropriate intervals.
 
What a hoot! :rofl:

The way I use the libre, whether driving, sleeping, walking etc is i set the alarm to go off if it drops down to 5.5. At 5.5 this alarm prompts me that blood sugars may or may not be dropping further. This then buys me a little bit of time to react and perhaps avoid a potential hypo if it appears to still be going lower. Unlike a hypo, the libre gives users a bit of breathing space should they need it.

If I was driving and the 5.5 alarm goes off, I can calmly pull over, without relying on hypo symptoms and avoid all the rigmarole of dealing with one and putting others at risk. This is the bit the dvla are missing with the new technology. The dvla could suggest drivers to use the libre in this way should they wish and if people choose not to use this advice and have a hypo at the wheel then it is a risk that could have been avoided.
The OP cannot do this as they cannot differentiate the different alarm sounds
 
Good morning all. In order to satisfy my own curiosity, earlier this morning I tested the process of showing blood sugar on my car's dashboard using Apple CarPlay. The process worked as I expected. I documented it in the attached PDF, in case any of you happen to be interested.
Thank you, this is really useful
 
Tyre pressure is exactly the same. You don’t rely on a warning light coming on to tell you that there’s a problem, you check them before long journeys and top up at appropriate intervals.
Of course. But this happened on the return from a 5 minute drive to Tesco on a Saturday night to get a bottle of milk when we’d just returned from holiday. Slap my wrist.
 
Sorry, I take offence at this remark. I have been driving with Type 1 for 41 years and would have been well aware of a hypo. Hypo awareness has been checked at the clinic, where the specialist approved licence renewal in July. I have also read the DVLA regulations. I like to be able to see the level when driving in the same way that I like to see the speed I am going and the amount of fuel available, though I have very good awareness of both.
I regret posting this thread as it has been interpreted as some kind of concern about blood sugar and given rise to needless remarks that I have found upsetting. Thinking further, I had considered placing the pump in a dashboard holder, where I could acknowledge something like this morning's "Replace battery soon" without taking eyes off the road if I were more than half an hour from the next exit or unable to find a parking place. I gather this would also be illegal. My current strategy of avoiding alarms seems the best and safest.
The OP has not returned after the offensive posts. Can somebody please close this thread?
 
This post has caused its share of divisive posts etc, which is both fun and a bit of a shame at the same time. Also sad that @JohnWhi has preferred to abandon this post rather than read any more contradictory and entrenched disparate views.

My brother-in-law is a retired police inspector, who spent many years on traffic duties, including motorway patrols. He saw some ridiculously amusing things, as well as some horrendous sights. But I recall him explaining that he was glad to retire because increasingly legislation was removing any discretion from him as a policeman. Once he came across a breach of the law he was obliged to document and process it, with a consequent award of a fine and points on someone's licence - when frequently his instinct would have been to caution the transgressor, explain why it was wrong and send them on their way. Common sense and his judgement was no longer applicable. I understand his angst about the policing world he'd found himself in. This wasn't just traffic duties either. As an Inspector, running a medium sized Police Station was no longer fulfilling and rewarding, just a daily struggle to comply with externally directed administrative procedures - lacking in common sense or understanding of people's actual needs.

Sadly, I think the DVLA rules can't cope with the rapid development of technology in our diabetic worlds, nor allow any discretion in interpretation by either a driver or traffic officer. Looking at anything other than the road while driving, such as checking a sweet wrapper before you unwrap the sticky sweet can be interpreted as driving without due care and attention. Eating an apple while driving is illegal, but lighting and smoking a cigarette is not. There is no logic or common sense and the traffic officer has no discretion. Well before this thread started I had already worried myself about what was permissible and legal in connection with CGM and my D.

I routinely keep my Libre low alarm at 5.6 and use the alert as just that - an alert that I am at that threshold. For me this presents 2 different problems: it is a rare day when my actual BG is within even 2 pts of my Libre and this varies day by day, so the trend is more important than the reading. But that brings the 2nd problem that legally I can't look at any device to see the trend; I'm not sure that having this data displayed on my windscreen (even if my car was modern enough and that I had the technology to achieve this) is legal. Its distracting from my driving and one step from reading my text messages and 2 steps from reading an e-book on my screen! So, in theory, I have to wait for hypo symptoms before taking action. Incidentally having hypo response food close to hand while driving does not mean it is legal to eat or drink; that is easily construed as driving without due care and attention.

Pulling over onto the motorway hard shoulder is illegal except in an emergency, is an alert at 5.6 an emergency? My neighbour, an elderly gentleman with a prostate problem, was fined for stopping to relieve himself; negligible traffic around, done behind the barrier; and the policeman told him he should have gone earlier or wet himself as he drove! How distracting would that be and far from compliant with driving with due care and attention once soiled; the traffic officer had no discretion, the motorway camera and police car technology recorded the incident and prosecution became inevitable. In UK we have service stations at irregular intervals, at least in France the frequent rest stations allow one to exit the autoroute quite quickly, if necessary.

It's all a conundrum. The DVLA vocabulary is a bit ambiguous; common sense and judgement can't be applied (surely it's safer to take a small response of either looking or eating something at 5.6 rather than when with hypo symptoms); the diabetes technology is potentially never going to meet the letter of the DVLA law; the pharmaceutical companies have no incentive to improve their sensors, readers and apps to provide better display or audible information about the actual reading - and anyway I suspect its an impossible task to make that possible on every reader, phone in any car! If you take a phone call while driving is that really hands free even with a very modern car? Buttons to press and concentration distracted? If you make a call, even more distraction getting the number selected. Surely breaching due care and attention?

Anyway, rant over. I see the problem, have no idea how it can be resolved and feel sorry for insulin dependent diabetics who depend on driving for their living. Will my MP pay any attention, even if I can describe the predicament sufficiently well to get her attention?
 
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