Worried about surgery, general anaesthetic and hospital stay

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DancingStar

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 3c
I am due to have surgery under GA.

I currently inject 18u Levemir basal when I get up with Novorapid before meals. There are a couple of things I'm concerned about:

* The day before surgery I cannot eat or drink after midnight. I assume that on the day of surgery I don't inject my basal insulin?

* Hopefully after surgery when I come round from the GA I will be taken to a ward. How will the hospital manage my insulin? I'm worried that I may not be able to eat solid food (intestinal surgery) for a couple of days.

*There is the possibility though I may be in critical care and I'm worried that I may be on very strong pain medication that makes me too "out of it" to ask questions, double check that I'm being given correct insulin doses etc.

* In the past (before I became diabetic) when i had surgery I was fed by nasogastric tube - How do I manage my insulin in that circumstance?

I'd appreciate any advice or experience from others. Many thanks.
 
I am due to have surgery under GA.

I currently inject 18u Levemir basal when I get up with Novorapid before meals. There are a couple of things I'm concerned about:

* The day before surgery I cannot eat or drink after midnight. I assume that on the day of surgery I don't inject my basal insulin?

* Hopefully after surgery when I come round from the GA I will be taken to a ward. How will the hospital manage my insulin? I'm worried that I may not be able to eat solid food (intestinal surgery) for a couple of days.

*There is the possibility though I may be in critical care and I'm worried that I may be on very strong pain medication that makes me too "out of it" to ask questions, double check that I'm being given correct insulin doses etc.

* In the past (before I became diabetic) when i had surgery I was fed by nasogastric tube - How do I manage my insulin in that circumstance?

I'd appreciate any advice or experience from others. Many thanks.
I’m not. 3c, nor do I use insulin, so I’ll swerve your specifics on your basal query.

In general though, if you haven’t had your pre-op appointment, that would be an ideal time to ask these questions, other wise, maybe give your clinic a call? At he very least they could confirm your pre-op basal query.

good luck with your surgery and hopefully a speedy and uneventful recovery.
 
I would expect you to need your basal on the day of the op because your liver is still going to be trickling out glucose and probably pumping it out by the gallon due to stress and anxiety before the surgery and likely your body's response to the surgery itself during and after. That said, I have not yet (and hopefully never will) be in this position, so I can't speak from experience. I believe some people have been put on a sliding scale IV particularly if they are not on a pump and the surgery is going to be prolonged or complicated.
Definitely check with your diabetes clinic staff as well as asking about it at your pre-op appointment and make sure you get the same answer from both. You want everyone on the same page with these situations.

I have to confess, the thought of handing over my diabetes management to some stranger fills me with dread, especially as @Proud to be erratic had a rather dodgy situation in hospital where they were going to give him insulin instead of glucose when he was hypo because that was written in the protocol for him and the nurse who was dealing with it knew no better and was just following the protocol. Thankfully he had regained sufficient mental function from the anaesthetic to challenge her about it and stop her, but you can see how easily someone could get it wrong, especially when nursing staff are stretched.
I would certainly want to know all the ins and outs of who was looking after me and what knowledge they had and check over their written protocols for me to make sure there were no glaring mistakes.

Wishing you a successful surgery and a speedy recovery and please let us know how it goes.
 
I believe some people have been put on a sliding scale IV particularly if they are not on a pump and the surgery is going to be prolonged or complicated.
I think that's usual, isn't it? Obviously make sure that the team have a sensible plan, but we're not that unusual so they ought to be able to cope (consulting with diabetes specialists as necessary).
I have to confess, the thought of handing over my diabetes management to some stranger fills me with dread
I don't think it's something any of us look forward to, but when you need the surgery that's one of the necessary risks.
 
I am due to have surgery under GA.
During 2022 I found myself in hospital 4 times, 3 planned and one an emergency needing rapid surgery. My experience has been that there is a pre-op assessment a few days before final admission and that pre-op assessment provided detailed instructions about insulin preparations.
I currently inject 18u Levemir basal when I get up with Novorapid before meals. There are a couple of things I'm concerned about:

* The day before surgery I cannot eat or drink after midnight. I assume that on the day of surgery I don't inject my basal insulin?
In principle you should still always need your basal. It's the background insulin that helps you manage the glucose releases that your liver does as part of daily living.

The hormones cortisol and adrenaline trigger the liver to release the stored glycogen (= glucose); these are instinctive responses by the body. Other people, who don't have damage to their pancreas, also get glucagon released by their pancreas which is a messenger hormone activated by our brain when the brain has detected our glucose is low; that glucagon travels to the liver and tells the liver (on behalf of the brain, which can't talk directly to the liver) to open the glycogen store. All these glycogen (glucose) releases are outside of glucose coming from carbs that you've eaten, which need bolus insulin.

You might get advice to reduce your basal by a modest %; but be prepared to challenge any pre-op assessment that tells you to stop all basal. It happened to me and I had to advise the pre-op nurse her guidance was incorrect! She checked and agreed.
* Hopefully after surgery when I come round from the GA I will be taken to a ward. How will the hospital manage my insulin? I'm worried that I may not be able to eat solid food (intestinal surgery) for a couple of days.
This is difficult. In theory the Hospital will know what they are doing and entrust your insulin care to the anaesthetist for the duration of the surgery and he / she will probably encourage you to agree to be put onto a "sliding scale" protocol. This is a defined procedure, which should be specific for you personally and put as a written record on your ward charts, defining the circumstances when you should receive extra glucose from an intravenous drip at defined rates or extra insulin from a drip at defined rates. This is fine during the surgery - the anaesthetist will be monitoring all your vital signs minute by minute and will be ready to tweak as necessary. I wore my CGM sensor throughout and as well as getting readings onto my phone, I had a Reader which I had with me during the Surgery and was lent to the Anaesthetist for the duration while in Theatre. That worked well.
*There is the possibility though I may be in critical care and I'm worried that I may be on very strong pain medication that makes me too "out of it" to ask questions, double check that I'm being given correct insulin doses etc.
*While in critical care you should receive the same diligence and care as you receive while in Theatre.
* In the past (before I became diabetic) when i had surgery I was fed by nasogastric tube - How do I manage my insulin in that circumstance?
The challenge starts when you are back on the ward and returned to the monitoring of a nurse who does not always have the right skills. As soon as you are sufficiently alert to resume your own insulin care I strongly suggest you get yourself taken off the sliding scale insulin drip.

*I was not on a nasogastric tube after my emergency surgery, only after my Whipples procedure while in ICU (and well out of things). I would interrogate your Surgeon and your Anaesthetist about how this is done, including precisely what the nutritional content of that feed will be. Almost certainly it will be a medicine from Pharmacy, rather than part of the Hospital catering contract and nutrition details can be found, but it probably won't be easy. I guess you will need to stay on the insulin drip.

Before signing your agreement to go on the sliding scale read the detail carefully. My "written protocol" that I signed without reading and properly understanding it, had a a blatant mistake stating that when my BG was very low I was to be given insulin (not glucose). Most luckily my CGM low alarm was doing its fair share of screaming at me after I was back in the ward; I had just come round and pressed my buzzer; a nurse saw I was low BG, read the protocol and said I needed more insulin (as written down!). I was woozy but awake enough to say no - she said yes, it was in black and white. I had to very robustly say no and insist I was immediately taken off the sliding scale apparatus. There was an argument, I ate some hypo glucose response from my bedside stock and went back to sleep. But if I'd not been alert, the Nurse was following the written protocol with no understanding of what the instructions were wrongly telling her to do. And I had signed my agreement to the Hospital error put on my chart by the Hospital Endocrinology Dep't.

Once you are moving from nasogastric feeding back to solids the carb content of the hospital meals are atrociously poorly documented. I did find out that Hospitals do have very detailed contract agreements for precise nutritional content of all meals being provided by the Catering Contractor. The problem is that this sort of contract detail is "a Secret", that no one wants to share with ward staff or patients!! Once I found it existed I gradually got others to understand that it was available - even though they had never seen it - and eventually show it to me. This was a challenge, but I had the time and "bloody mindedness" to acquire the information.
I'd appreciate any advice or experience from others. Many thanks.
Good luck.
 
They should discuss all this with you at your pre-op - or, on admission. Your blood sugar is likely to soar after any operation because of the huge trauma to you body - so when you are either still under anaesthetic or whilst still dopey for at least 24 hrs thereafter - no way can your brain be relied on to make decisions or actions to keep you alive and kicking - whether you like that or not ! Hence they'll probably want to hook you up to what's known as a sliding scale - which is basically the large 'industrial' version of an insulin pump which drips the needed insulin into your body drop by drop until you're well enough to DIY with pen injections as previously.
 
Thank you to everyone who has replied. I feel more stressed about the diabetes management side than anything else about the surgery - as if that's not stressful enough
 
When I have had general anaesthetic, I was advised to take my basal as usual.
Then, when I came to, I was in charge of my insulin. I was not put in a sliding scale. I thought the sliding scale was now a last resort old fashioned concept which most hospitals try to avoid.
This was after major surgery where i was given enough painkillers not to be in pain but they did not make me feel groggy. I was alert enough to manage my diabetes. My brain was perfectly able to make decisions required to keep me alive.


Before the surgery, I discussed this all with the consultant and anaesthetist. They understood it was important for me to know how to manage my diabetes through the procedure.
I also spoke with my DSN. She said, if the procedure was at the same hospital as the diabetes clinic (it wasn't) she was happy to be included in these discussions.
 
Hi. First I would avoid the staff using sliding scale insulin/glucose as it relies on staff monitoring it or understanding diabetes and many don't. I've been in a hospital a few times and using insulin. The Pre-op is the place & time to discuss insulin actions. Some have advised reducing doses by a 1/3rd but it's largely guesswork. Insist that you retain your insulin and do your own injections as needed; I've always been allowed to do that. Allow the staff to test your bloods as often as they like. If your BS goes too high before the op you can use the Bolus if needed. If it goes too low the staff can provide some glucose thru your canula if they know what they're doing
 
I am T2 and had surgery and they took great care of me. They tested regularly to see if my BG was doing ok . Good luck with your operation and I hope it goes well for you
 
When I had last had a GA I was wearing a sensor. The anaesthetist had access to this and we agreed before the op when, if at all they would transfer me to sliding scale. I stayed on my basal insulin throughout, and the sliding scale was not necessary, and I picked up managing my insulin as soon as possible once back on the ward.

With a much longer op I was put on sliding scale, and my concern was that they reconnected this once I was back on the ward. I set my husband to check that this was done on my return, but he had gone for a coffee. However it was all done as planned.

I informed my DSN as it was a planned op and she came to check on me both before and after the op, persuading them that as I was vomiting afterwards I should stay in overnight. I was by this time back to managing my insulin but good to have access to support.

Like you I was very nervous, but the pre op assessment put me at ease, and the support from DSN was great.
 
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