Worried about a friend who I think is in denial

Status
Not open for further replies.

JamesT

New Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Other Type
Hi, thanks for having me here!

At the moment, I am worried about a good friend of mine. He's a bit older than me (in his mid-50's), highly overweight, and has what I think is type 2 diabetes that has progressed to needing insulin injections.

The thing is, he always says that his blood sugars are "fine" and that he has been told he doesn't have to measure his blood levels. He also tends to eat and drink what he wants, including chocolate sometimes. He complains that big meals leave him feeling very woozy for a while afterwards but doesn't see it as a problem.

He has recently been in hospital. The day before I had lunch with him. He didn't eat excessively or anything particularly bad that I saw, but afterwards he had to pee twice in five minutes. Next morning he was throwing up, I asked if he should see a doctor and he said he'd just work it through. When his wife came home that evening, he was in a terrible state and she called an ambulance. They measured his blood sugars as being very high (i heard the figure "25" mentioned, I have no idea of scales or units) despite not having eaten all day. He was admitted to the high dependency unit for pneumonia. There had been no trace of a cough the day before, I would hazard a guess that it doesn't progress that quickly unless your system is badly weakened by something else.

He's now back home after ten days in hospital. He hasn't covered himself in glory, I overheard him asking his wife to bring him in sweets while he was in. I'd been hoping this might be something of a wake-up call.

I gave him a lift back, bit the bullet and tried to talk to him about looking after his health. He wasn't angry or unpleasant in a way, but it seemed like water off a duck's back. He maintained that he had acutally been told to stop measuring his blood sugars. It also came out that he believed insulin is simply excreted by the body if you have too much, and he had no idea what a "Hypo" was. At that point, I shut up because I couldn't deal with it.

Had a video chat with him today. He says there is no follow-up planned of any form, that he is on same medication as before and his doctor will be getting a letter. Given my experience of the overstretched NHS these days I don't find that too hard to believe, but then I also find it hard to believe nobody has told him to arrange a diabetes review or manage it better, or that it wasn't a big factor in him nearly dying.

Things are a little more complicated in that he has manic depression. It's well controlled these days but when his mood is high he has said he feels invulnerable and infallible, and I think this has stuck as a sort of defence mechanism in some ways. I have autism, and I find it very difficult to challenge people, or to deal with uncertainty. In this case, I of course can't see his medical records and haven't been a fly on the wall at meetings, so I have no idea whether he's telling the truth or not (I have to remind myself that he might not by lying as such, more likely anything difficult goes in one ear and straight out the other).

It's probably worse for his wife, but she's not very talkative and their relationship seems a bit pathological to me at times. I strongly suspect she has undiagnosed autism as well (what a rum bunch we are!)

Anyhow, I'm dead worried. I don't want to lose a friend, either because he dies or because I can't deal with him being likely to bring about his death. After this chat, for example, I am stewing because I am wondering if I should have challenged him again about the diabetes.

Any advice would be appreciated please!
James
 
Being Asperger's myself, I can relate to what you ar saying. Because it gave me greater control of social interactions. over thirty years ago I chose to live of-grid and outside society. Living on the streets in the South of France, I came across many alcoholics, junkies and people with severe manic depression. My ex-wife [common law], being a case in point.

There is not a lot you can do about his denial except be there when he is ready to accept the truth. The only other alternative is for a close family member to petition his Doctor or the courts to have him committed.

I am not sure what the law is in the UK, but, in France, it is a serious crime not to give aid to someone in distress. This law [in France] can be used by concerned non-family members to petition a court for an order of protection. (Don't ask how I know this, it is a long and very shocking story involving extremely large sums of money and scheming close family members.)

As I say, I do not know if there is a similar law in the UK. But, even if there was, it is a very drastic step to take and would most likely destroy your friendship.

Apart from that, I think you are correct to be concerned about his denial. If he really wants to commit suicide, there are easier, cleaner ways of doing it. Up until about six weeks ago, I myself was in denial about my suspected diabetes. It was only when some of my symptoms, among others, started to resemble what you describe for your friend that I sought out medical help. Since then, I have learned how truly stupid my denial was: Take a look at some of the complication I am at risk of which I list in my signature.

Believe me, from what I have learned on this site about the realities of living with these complications, if they fully develop, which, touch wood, I hope they don't, I will give serious consideration to a clean exit.

Sorry I cannot be of more help
Irvine

Edited for bad grammar
 
Last edited:
I don'[t want to worry you further, but if someone is using insulin then they should be checking their blood glucose levels daily - and if driving, not checking negates insurance and is probably illegal.
Insulin is not anything to be flippant about, as it can kill, and excess is certainly not excreted - though having high blood glucose levels would seem to indicate too little rather than too much being taken.
Your friend needs some proper advice about using insulin and perhaps diet as well - we can only outline or confirm possible problems from our own experience or family history, not give medical advice or diagnosis.
 
It is not quite clear from what you have said as to whether he has been officially diagnosed as diabetic or is supposed to be taking insulin or is on any other diabetic medication.
If he had pneumonia then it is highly likely that having an infection would increase blood glucose levels but non the less it seems negligent that the hospital discharged him without any support for the high blood glucose unless of course he his not telling you.
I'm not sure there is a lot you can do other than support him and urge him to be proactive in contacting the GP to at the very least get a blood test and some medication to help.
I suspect he will not be too receptive to making some serious dietary changes but if you could see if his wife would take on board making some changes that would help.
 
Thanks for the replies.
His mental health is nowhere near sectionable levels, I think it would take repeated hospital visits within days of each other for that to even be considered!

To clarify, he says he has diabetes which used to be tablet controlled, but which has progressed to requiring he inject himself daily in his stomach with a pen-like device, with what he says is insulin. Pretty sure this makes it type 2 which has become more severe because of his increasing weight. He seems pretty good about doing these injections at least.

I don't think there can be much help from his wife; I think she's either beaten down by him, at least on that matter, or just can't get through. Likewise, I'm pretty sure the medical services will know that he hasn't ordered any new insulin tests for several years (this is according to what he says, and the main thrust of what he says is to downplay severity and importance).

Does anyone know of any circumstances at all where someone on insulin injections (even if it is type 2/insulin resistant) would be recommended to NOT check their blood sugar regularly? It would help if I could at least tell him that much, but there I would probably have to stop. If he tells me that he is unlike every other person with diabetes in the world, I can't prove otherwise.

Knowing the above would help, beyond that, I think Irvine is probably right, and the only thing I can do is be there when he is ready.

James
 
@JamesT - It's good that you are looking out for your friend, but the absolutely harsh reality is that provided your friend has capacity (meaning they have the capacity to make decisions - even if they are bad ones) then how they deal with any predicament is up to them.

If you feel he doesn't have capacity then it can be challenged and potentially he can be sectioned, but that would almost certainly fracture the relationship you have beyond repair.

I believe the hard thing is that you have to allow him to do his own thing, but be there should he ask for help.

It's a horrible situation to find yourself in, but there's little you can do if your friend doesn't want to change anything about his life.
 
Hi @JamesT As said above, you can’t make him do anything, but you can a) tell him how you’d feel to lose him; and b) not entertain his lies - if that’s what they are. That is, if he tells you something you know to be untrue, don’t let it pass, but don’t do anymore than state facts.

“Does anyone know of any circumstances at all where someone on insulin injections (even if it is type 2/insulin resistant) would be recommended to NOT check their blood sugar regularly? It would help if I could at least tell him that much, but there I would probably have to stop. If he tells me that he is unlike every other person with diabetes in the world, I can't prove otherwise”

If someone was on insulin and capable of doing so, they’d always be asked to check their blood sugar. This is partly so their insulin dose can be adjusted, but also because insulin can cause dangerous hypos.

There’s a fine line between caring and nagging, and people with chronic health conditions like diabetes can be very sensitive to ‘nagging’. So, by all means state facts, but do so in a neutral, calm way. I’d also bear in mind that defensiveness from your friend could also be due to ignorance about diabetes as well as denial.

The bottom line is there’s not much you can do. Offer your help but if it’s rejected, then just say the offer remains on the table and move on to another topic.
 
It could be that the injection is not insulin, there are other medications that are injected which you may be advised not to check your blood sugars with. Do you know if he injects it every day, multiple times a day, or once a week?

If he drives, you could show him the law which says he must be testing his blood glucose levels whilst taking insulin, as that concrete evidence may help, sometimes it’s good if the advice is something you can blame on someone else like that. He also has to advise the DVLA if he does take insulin. If he’s been admitted to hospital then a diabetes nurse will have seen him and maybe they will help with advice on discharge.
 
Thanks for the replies. He doesn't drive, so no issues or opportunities there.

Knowing there's no exception to the "on insulin, must test" rule is useful, thank you.

You're right. The bottom line is that I can offer help, perhaps I can challenge him if he says something that is manifestly wrong, but I can't force him and trying to nag might be counter-productive.

On the other hand, it's putting a dent in the friendship. Another good friend died a few years ago, and part of me is telling me to distance myself so it will hurt less when this one goes.

Perhaps I will get more philosophical about this in a few more days or weeks
 
You're right. The bottom line is that I can offer help, perhaps I can challenge him if he says something that is manifestly wrong,
Being armed with correct information is never going to hurt.

Here are some edited highlights from this post by someone who suffers from just one of the many possible complications I mentioned:
My symptoms are as follows:- My feet have no blisters but i cannot feel them and there always cold and it feels as if i'm walking on shingle or broken glass everyday. I have loss of muscle mass in both calves and thighs and being an ex Rugby player i was proud of my legs now its just like having a pair of twigs as legs. I now have incontinence which is a shocker in itself and i'm glad i'm single as the Diabetic Neuropathy has caused Erectile Disfunction too. Sleeping at night is hit n miss because of the pain and discomfort in my legs it keeps me awake and i just drop off during the day maybe once or twice for an hour or so. Also waking in the morning sometimes there's light headedness and the feeling of sickness it's like the feeling after the night before on the drink. It has also moved up into my hands and arms where it feels like pins n needles and cramp all the time.............

........i have had to give up work as i was told by employer i'm a health and safety risk which i understand totally but going to job centre to claim was totally well very very disheartening. It's been sorted now although they still expect me to attend the job centre every 3 weeks when i can hardly walk. I have to have a health assessment every year but i keep telling them what i have is not curable but they do not understand all there interested in is NUMBERS getting back to work......

It is not a clean way to go.

Another good friend died a few years ago, and part of me is telling me to distance myself so it will hurt less when this one goes.
It won't hurt any less.

Generally, when people ask me for advice about dealing with friends and relatives who are struggling with addiction or alcoholism, I, along with professional addiction counsellors, always advise a little bit of distance until their friend or family member is ready to seek help. But, this is mainly to protect themselves from theft of property and money. In the case of a manic depressive engaged on a suicidal course of action, this is not usually the case.

Believe me, I really understand how exhausting this can be, and, at times, for your own sanity, you really need to take a break. But, there is not a one size fits all solution as to whether or not to distance yourself from your friend. You being their for him, painful and exhausting as it may be for you, could be the only thing that is helping him hold it together. Also, if you are not there, you will not be able to call in professional help if things get truly out of hand.

Basically, what I am saying is that you have to try and find a balance between your desire to help your friend and your own personal health and well being. Where exactly that balance point lies is never an easy decision.

Perhaps I will get more philosophical about this in a few more days or weeks
There is a lot to be said for this kind of gallic, laissez-faire, attitude. The English tourists are often shocked when they see this in practice, but it is born out of respect for the rights of an individual. What they [the English tourists] don't see is that the system is actually their for them [the subject of concern] when they are either ready to seek help, or spiral so badly that they can longer make rational judgement. Essentially, while different to what we know and expect, the system does in fact work.

Edited for clarity
 
Last edited:
I was diagnosed type 2 and 6 years later put on a long lasting once a day dose of insulin. Then 2 years later or so got changed to type one lada and now on 5 shots of insulin a day. It is possible just to be on I dose of long lasting a day but even then I still had to take my blood sugar levels before I took it at least.
 
Thank you for all the helpful replies.

As a slight coda to this, it turned out that the injection he has in his stomach is in fact Victoza/liraglutide. Things aren't as bad as I thought, although I still think he isn't helping himself and is resistent to some things.

On the other hand, something has stuck: he has reduced his usual portion sizes, and is losing some weight. I think his wife might have got through to him a bit in a subtle way.

He's more or less recovered from the hospital trip, we went camping the other weekend. Fingers crossed...!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top