Why not introduce more NHS charges?

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Northerner

Northerner

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In the early 1950s, the NHS was going through a tough period. Money was tight and demand was rising. So ministers came up with a radical plan - they introduced charges for dentistry, prescriptions and spectacles.

The move in 1952 was controversial, but did enough to get the NHS out of a tricky hole. With the finances tight again, should extending charges be under consideration now?

It is a question that has been asked several times in recent years. Research in 2013 by Reform, a centre-right think-tank, found a £10 charge for GP consultations could raise £1.2bn a year even with exemptions for age and income.

The issue was also discussed at British Medical Association and Royal College of Nursing conferences last year, although at both the motions drawn up calling on more charging to be introduced were not passed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31797770

I think the graph in the report says it all 🙂
 
Well if I had to pay £10 for every GP apt, I'd want my money's worth so I'd want to cover ALL my health issues at one sitting !

I was actually looking at NICE Guidelines for stopping smoking this very morning and it struck me - since the prime reason I want to give up is not actually monetary - wouldn't it be sensible let's say if I do this and am prescribed something to give assistance be it NRT or Champix, counselling, whatever - why should I NOT pay for it? cos I'll save the baccy money won't I ?

Even if I were nearer the breadline than I am it still makes sense - carry on costing me ££whatever for a few weeks, but thereafter no money for either the help or the baccy?

OTOH if I had to pay for all my drugs; then I would be a LOT nearer the breadline. I curse when I have to fork out to pay the dentist and the optician. At least the consultation for the latter is free but it's of absolutely no consequence in comparison to the price of the ruddy specs which follows the consultation every ruddy year.
 
I think those who suggest £10 for an appointment don't really live in the real world. When I was earning reasonably good money then, yes, do-able, but it would certainly put me off on my current income - and I'm by no means on the poverty line. Means testing people would just introduce expensive bureaucracy. I wonder also if the £450m they get from English prescriptions includes the cost of administration? How come all the other countries of the Union can make them free?

[socialist rant]I think what is bugging me about current politics is that increasing taxes seems to be entirely toxic and no party will do it, except for little tweaks at the edges. A little more according to ability to pay is a small price to pay in order to keep and fund the public services that make our society a better one[/socialist rant]
 
I don't think the suggested £10 charge is aimed at just raising money, the real reason is to stop people going to the GP for trivial reasons. The way we interact with healthcare in general is going to change soon.

Don't be surprised that in the near future that to book a non scheduled appointment with your GP you have to call 111 first, or find A&E services closed to walk ins without a referral from either 111 or a medical professional.
 
Northerner said:
I think those who suggest £10 for an appointment don't really live in the real world. When I was earning reasonably good money then, yes, do-able, but it would certainly put me off on my current income - and I'm by no means on the poverty line. Means testing people would just introduce expensive bureaucracy. I wonder also if the £450m they get from English prescriptions includes the cost of administration? How come all the other countries of the Union can make them free?

[socialist rant]I think what is bugging me about current politics is that increasing taxes seems to be entirely toxic and no party will do it, except for little tweaks at the edges. A little more according to ability to pay is a small price to pay in order to keep and fund the public services that make our society a better one[/socialist rant]
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That does seem slightly contradictory as the suggested charge is based on what people can afford to pay, why is tax OK but a charge not OK as long as it is based on peoples ability to pay.


Every year we hear the same nonsense usually started by NHS managers that just want bigger budgets leaking stories to the media.

Year £ bn Effect
1997 63 NHS in crisis
1998 65 NHS in crisis
1999 70 NHS in crisis
2001 76 NHS in crisis
2002 83 NHS in crisis
2003 94 NHS in crisis
2004 101 NHS in crisis
2005 107 NHS in crisis
2006 116 NHS in crisis
2007 119 NHS in crisis
2008 128 NHS in crisis
2009 130 NHS in crisis
2010 137 NHS in crisis
2011 138 NHS in crisis
2012 142 NHS in crisis
2013 148 NHS in crisis
2014 153 NHS in crisis

When does the crisis end?
 
Well you know as well as I do that it never will Paul, since there are MORE life-saving drugs and procedures discovered every year, and 'we' expect the NHS to provide that treatment when we have whatever wrong with us. Trouble is, the innovators need to get a return on their investment in the drug or technology, so the NHS has to pay for it.

Furthermore, we aren't allowed to die now are we? Not without the NHS throwing more and more resources at keeping us breathing and pumping blood, even when we are brain dead. Then the Liverpool Procedure kicks in - whereas Drs used to administer basically an overdose of morphine. They used to say to the next of kin - He/she's in a lot of pain - now I can administer this tanker load of morphine but I have to warn you - it may accelerate The End. And you went Oh dear. Well, I'd much rather he/she wasn't in pain. So yes - administer it please.

And that was that - quietly in their sleep.
 
Paul. Don't believe everything you read in newspapers just because it suits your party loyalty 🙄 I have just been reading a medical journal that states the health secretary Jeremy Hunt is stopping a report from being published that was completed last December by a Tory peer because it slams the government over the changes it made which he says caused all the problems. We can all troll and find bits of information to blame each other but that does not solve the problems. 🙂
 
ukjohn said:
Paul. Don't believe everything you read in newspapers just because it suits your party loyalty 🙄 I have just been reading a medical journal that states the health secretary Jeremy Hunt is stopping a report from being published that was completed last December by a Tory peer because it slams the government over the changes it made which he says caused all the problems. We can all troll and find bits of information to blame each other but that does not solve the problems. 🙂
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I do believe that Northy linked that report at the time and I am just catching up. The point to me is not necessarily a party one but while they are having a go at each other they are not trying to fix the funding problem. But really asking me not to believe what I have read in the papers by asking me to believe what you have read in the papers is not going to get us anywhere

And I remember Labour making a massive noise at the time about report blocking yet they go and do the same.


I was really talking of funding and showed a chart of how it just grows disproportionately to all the other Government departments and surely that can not continue not matter who is in number 10.

Oh and of course VOTE CONSERVATIVE LOL :D
 
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ypauly said:
That does seem slightly contradictory as the suggested charge is based on what people can afford to pay, why is tax OK but a charge not OK as long as it is based on peoples ability to pay.
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The mechanism for collecting taxes already exists, means-testing for fees does not, so a new bureaucracy would need devising and would also take more physical resources and time from overworked surgeries.

As TW says, of course the costs of the NHS increase year on year - just as one example, the pump you wear would not have been available to you a few years ago, but it costs a lot more to buy and service than a couple of pens. During the course of this parliament the NHS has not received the increase in funding it needs to meet its obligations - let's face it, they wouldn't even pay nurses a below inflation pay rise :(
 
Northerner said:
The mechanism for collecting taxes already exists, means-testing for fees does not, so a new bureaucracy would need devising and would also take more physical resources and time from overworked surgeries.

As TW says, of course the costs of the NHS increase year on year - just as one example, the pump you wear would not have been available to you a few years ago, but it costs a lot more to buy and service than a couple of pens. During the course of this parliament the NHS has not received the increase in funding it needs to meet its obligations - let's face it, they wouldn't even pay nurses a below inflation pay rise :(
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Fair point about the tax but they are going to put some sort of system in place for overseas nationals to contribute to care. on the pay awards I am lead to believe that the grading system on nurses pay means they can still get an above inflation rise and as much as 5%.

I'm sure somebody will correct me if that was wrong but it was Cameron at PMQ's where I heard that.
 
ypauly said:
Fair point about the tax but they are going to put some sort of system in place for overseas nationals to contribute to care. on the pay awards I am lead to believe that the grading system on nurses pay means they can still get an above inflation rise and as much as 5%.

I'm sure somebody will correct me if that was wrong but it was Cameron at PMQ's where I heard that.
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That grading system was one which was agreed a long time ago, and the rises automatic as part of career progression, not as annual pay increases to maintain income levels at at least inflation levels.

Hope you had a good holiday BTW 🙂
 
ypauly said:
why is tax OK but a charge not OK as long as it is based on peoples ability to pay.

Year £ bn Effect

2014 153 NHS in crisis

When does the crisis end?
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That's quite simple, as soon a the tax payers realise that it would actually be cheaper as an individual to buy annual medical insurance than contribute such a high percentage of their wages to the NHS.

Quick maths based on a population of 65m then the average person should be paying £2354 per annum towards the NHS. Take out the non tax payers 35m then that raises to £4371 per taxpayer.

Yes I know that doesn't include companies or VAT, but it's food for thought.
 
Northerner said:
That grading system was one which was agreed a long time ago, and the rises automatic as part of career progression, not as annual pay increases to maintain income levels at at least inflation levels.

Hope you had a good holiday BTW 🙂
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I kind of had that understanding well assumed that any how but to say they will not get a rise is still quite wrong.

Holiday was great:D:D:D


On NHS matters they need a cross party NHS management team with a commitment that no party politics will be played, then and only then will we actually get a proper understanding of what we can realistically achieve for the resources we can spend/will spend.


I was just looking into the report John mentioned and the similarities between the two are astonishing not in content but in the political sense.

Hunt said his report was commissioned by him and not for public view it was just to assist him in running the system.

Labour say the report was not for the public and assumed the meetings were private.


they really do need to stop playing silly buggers with the NHS the lot of them.
 
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