What type?

[rossi_mac]

Hi,

Not a regular at serious posts so here goes...

Right this has been on my mind for a very long time, I admit I am not the most educated diabetic (regarding the condition/disease diabetes that is!) and I've only had the honour of walking with you all so to speak for 5 years but I do get so wound up with the press and general assumptions people make about type 1 or type 2, to be honest if you knew me you'd soon realise I get wound up by a lot of the press and people who make assumptions, the only assumption I think you can make is that if someone has big shoes they must have big feet.

So my thought is why the hell do we have to have a number before, or after the word diabetic, I seriously cannot see the point, some people for example have been told they are no longer type x but now they are type y, and I have met 3 people who have after nearly 10 years been told this. Surely it is about treatment? Now as I understand it those who don't start out on insulin (trying not to say type 2!) 50% end up on insulin, if you find another drug or lifestyle change that works and you don't need insulin great. If we all get pigeoned holed for a type then I suppose it is easy for the medics to follow a route to see what is going on and try and get the best control, but also that is negative in people who aren't a typical type, and holds back on them getting what is right for them, as many rants on this forum are proof of.

I'd rather say I am diabetic and not feel afterwards I have to say type x, am I alone in that?

Sorry if this rant makes little sense it does in my head just wondered if I was the only one who thought this, maybe I am?

Hope you are all well fellow Diabetics.

Rossi.

 

[Redkite]

Actually I'd be in favour of calling type 1 something entirely different, e.g. Autoimmune pancreatic failure, to disassociate it from the negative public connotations of "diabetes". The various types all have the same effect, ie higher than normal glycaemia and all the complications that can ensue. But the causes are very different and so is the management of the condition.

I hasten to add that I hate to see the media blaming people with type 2 for bringing it on themselves, and there are plenty of T2's who were fit and not overweight (good examples being Steve Redgrave and Ranulph Fiennes!). Hardly a day goes by without an article somewhere talking about obesity, diabetes and the financial burden on the NHS - not the sort of publicity that makes people want to donate to diabetes charities unfortunately. And caught up in this negativity are all the type 1 kids who get picked on at school because their peers think they were fat and ate too many cakes and sweets. So I prefer to make it very clear that type 1 is completely different and can't possibly have been caused by an unhealthy lifestyle.

 

[Aoife]

Hi,
So my thought is why the hell do we have to have a number before, or after the word diabetic, I seriously cannot see the point, some people for example have been told they are no longer type x but now they are type y, and I have met 3 people who have after nearly 10 years been told this. Surely it is about treatment? Now as I understand it those who don't start out on insulin (trying not to say type 2!) 50% end up on insulin, if you find another drug or lifestyle change that works and you don't need insulin great. If we all get pigeoned holed for a type then I suppose it is easy for the medics to follow a route to see what is going on and try and get the best control, but also that is negative in people who aren't a typical type, and holds back on them getting what is right for them, as many rants on this forum are proof of.

I'd rather say I am diabetic and not feel afterwards I have to say type x, am I alone in that?
Rossi.

All diabetics have an issue with insulin,
Type 1 = No insulin being produced
Type 2 = Insulin being produced but the body has built up a resistance to it therefore supplementary insulin may be required.

Although they are both diabetes they are both managed in different ways and pretty much 2 different disease processes.

For example, type 1, if you don't take insulin at some point you WILL end up in DKA, not so for Type 2, it CAN happen but much more unlikely.

Type 1, you WILL need insulin. Type 2, you will probably need medication to make your body less resistant to the insulin you naturally produce.

If I was ever to be admitted to hospital I would feel it was really important to stress which type I was as the condition and the treatment could vary significantly.

Generally changing types appears (and I have no 1st hand experience of this) to be from mis-diagnosis rather than a change in disease process

 

[rossi_mac]

Fair points...

I'll just add that I agree it is obvious if attending hospital to explain more surely saying insulin dependent on mdi using this and that insulin would cover the need for saying T1? If not fair enough I'll forget about this idea!!

Cheers

Rossi.

 

[Northerner]

Fair points...

I'll just add that I agree it is obvious if attending hospital to explain more surely saying insulin dependent on mdi using this and that insulin would cover the need for saying T1? If not fair enough I'll forget about this idea!!

Cheers

Rossi.

Actually, that's how they used to be called Rossi - IDDM and NIDDM - Insulin Dependent Diabetes Mellitus/Non Insulin Dependent Diabetes Mellitus. Can't remember when it was changed, but it wasn't that long ago. There are so many names for the various types - what about 'Juvenile Diabetes' (now Type 1) and 'Mature Onset Diabetes' (now Type 2). They have different origins, but the consequences can be the same.

What I'd be much more in favour of would be a change of attitude and fr the media and other organisations to stop vilefying people with diabetes, whatever its origins. If you say to someone 'I've got cancer' then there is almost always immediate sympathy and encouragement - yet cancer is as broad a spectrum as diabetes can be in its causes. Many cancers are unavoidable and 'no-one's fault', but many may be related to lifestyle choices, obesity, getting older etc. Even smokers don't get given the guilt-trip that people with diabetes have to endure. If diabetes was treated more sympathetically then there would be no real need to talk about types. Sometimes I think the need to explain in little sidebars how the two main types differ only really serves to twist the knife a bit more into people with Type 2 that they have no-one to blame but themselves and they could easily cure themselves if only they'd make some effort.

The public need to be much better educated about the causes of diabetes, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen whilst there are lazy journalists who like dramatic and simplistic headlines, and to use words like 'time-bomb' and 'burden'.

 

[Lauras87]

I find that there is a need to clarify the type you are as would you want someone thinking your a T2 & not helping you when you need it?

Only until recently I only thought there was 3 types of diabetics, T1, T2 & diabetes during pregnancy but there is LADA & MODY.

I always if I tell someone I'm diabetic that I'm type 1 insulin dependent, even my meditag states it.
When I was diagnosed all my letters from my consultant to my GP called me IDDM (I'm too lazy to type it out) but now my letters just call me type 1

I do have a bee in my bonnet when you say your diabetic & people automatically assume your T2.
it annoys me how T2's have an automatic label as being overweight & too lazy to change their life style (I wonder if that was ever said to Sir Steve Redgrave??)

The media needs to remember there are differences in diabetics with different medication needs & how the disease comes about.

 

[Caroline]

People are lazy and even when show the facts don't want to know unless it affects them directly.

The office I work in for example says it is inclusive, but it is not. Betrween us we have a vriety of medical conditions, some of which require special diets, and w ehave a vegan. For birthdays cakes come in, however the vegan is excluded, the chap with gluten intolerance (his GPs diagnosis) and the dieters are always excluded because it is easier to buy a box of cakes than an assortment of fresh fruit...

 

[DebbyC]

I have recently been diagnosed with type 2, my grandmother was type 1 and both my parents are type 2. Therefore the nurse has told me that its in my family. Although you are right people have automatically thought its because I'm overweight. I have put some weight one and although was trying for five months to loose weight and always exercising I couldn't loose any weight. The nurse sent me for blood tests and hey presto thats when she told me I was diabetic. She also said that this was hampering my weight loss. I feel have have been labeled as causing the diabetes because I gained weight, you are so right people do form an opinion of you right away.

 

[Lauras87]

I have recently been diagnosed with type 2, my grandmother was type 1 and both my parents are type 2. Therefore the nurse has told me that its in my family. Although you are right people have automatically thought its because I'm overweight. I have put some weight one and although was trying for five months to loose weight and always exercising I couldn't loose any weight. The nurse sent me for blood tests and hey presto thats when she told me I was diabetic. She also said that this was hampering my weight loss. I feel have have been labeled as causing the diabetes because I gained weight, you are so right people do form an opinion of you right away.

Debby, I've just sent you a message about a meter

 

[DebbyC]

Debby, I've just sent you a message about a meter

Thanks Laura, Just sent you a reply 🙂

 

[Andy HB]

There was a similar thread on this subject quite a while ago when I was young and innocent in such matters!

I believed then (and still believe) that type 1, type 2 etc are all different forms of the same affliction. They just represent differing levels of insulin production and insulin resistance and also come about because of different reasons (type 1 being auto-immune and type 2 being mostly lifestyle coupled with underlying genetic pre-disposition).

I do agree that the press rather over-simplify things when it comes to type 2, but on the other hand, I also believe that the majority of people with type 2 could have delayed or even prevented their symptoms if their lifestyle choices had been different (and I most definitely include myself in that bracket!).

It is no coincidence that once I modified my lifestyle my diabetic symptoms were 'reversed'. But that's not to say that if I revert to my previous sedentary & over-indulgent living that the symptoms won't re-assert themselves (which they may do even if I remain a good chap!).

Andy 🙂

 

[Northerner]

...I do agree that the press rather over-simplify things when it comes to type 2, but on the other hand, I also believe that the majority of people with type 2 could have delayed or even prevented their symptoms if their lifestyle choices had been different (and I most definitely include myself in that bracket!).
Andy 🙂

See, I don't actually agree with this notion of 'lifestyle choice'. People are influenced by the type of society they live in. The types of food available -much of the worst is heavily marketed and based on what is currently becoming very discredited science: that the food that is good for you is low fat, that fat, fat, fat is the big problem, but hey- eat as much sugar and carbs as you want because that won't affect your metabolism at all! Most people below the age of 50 haven't received any education about food, cooking and nutrition, and it seems that many below 35 were fed on cafeteria-style food at school where the effects of what they were eating was not considered until Jamie came along and challenged it.

Despite things like the running boom of the 1980s and the growth of gyms and the notion of personal fitness, the vast majority of people never do any real, regular physical exercise after leaving school, nor are they really encouraged to do so. People have less time than they used to, so a lot will go for the processed meals filled with excessive fat, salt and sugar which even the 'healthiest' ready meals contain. People don't walk anywhere near how they used to - not even to a bus stop, they just get in their cars, largely because so many have to commute long distances to work.

I could go on, but the point is that, yes people should take personal responsibility for their health, but unless some real action is taken to change things generally then things are just going to continue to get worse. There should be stricter rules about processed food and drink, supermarkets shouldn't be allowed to discount alcohol and offer only sweets and cakes and soft drinks at big discounts. Fresh fruit and vegetables should not come at a premium. Public transport should be a viable alternative to car use by making it cheaper, more efficient and reliable. And so on.

The problem is that governments complain about the rising number of people with health problems relating to how people live their lives but do virtually nothing to change the underlying causes.

 

[LeeLee]

Any journalist writing the 'self-inflicted' message should go through the Secret Eaters process, and see how they fare! I bet they are just as bad as the people they vilify in their poisonous articles.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I have recently been diagnosed with type 2, my grandmother was type 1 and both my parents are type 2. Therefore the nurse has told me that its in my family. Although you are right people have automatically thought its because I'm overweight. I have put some weight one and although was trying for five months to loose weight and always exercising I couldn't loose any weight. The nurse sent me for blood tests and hey presto thats when she told me I was diabetic. She also said that this was hampering my weight loss. I feel have have been labeled as causing the diabetes because I gained weight, you are so right people do form an opinion of you right away.

And yet you were gaining weight BECAUSE of the diabetes, not the other way around!

I do have a lot of sympathy with parents of CWD whose children are bullied by ignorant eeeejits, and also with anyone who is diagnosed with T2 who then automatically gets the full brunt of the media/government mis-information/bullying/beating with the guilt stick.

For myself though I'm not sure any of the name changing that is often suggested will do any good though unfortunately.

Diabetes literally means 'Passing excessive urine' from the Greek diabainein "to pass through" or "to stand/walk with legs apart"

Medically, it is used to collect conditions which involve an inability to metabolise glucose normally - so whatever names are suggested the D word is likely to remain.

I agree with Northie. The real problem is the constant, relentless association with 'lifestyle' in media soundbites. When what seems to be the case is that people diagnosed with D are living exactly the same lifestyle as everyone else - it's just that their bodies can't cope with the carb-saturated modern diet and/or have a twitchy immune system that eats their own pancreas.

The people who read those articles about diabetes and 'lifestyle choice' will not believe for a second that the 'lifestyle choice' that leads to diabetes are the very same ones they make themselves. Those articles don't challenge people about their own behavoiurs/choices, but cast the blame so regularly and so insidiously that any diagnosis (of any type!) is immediately felt to be entirely self inflicted.

 

[AlisonM]

I was initially diagnosed Type 2, did my own research and discovered that might not be true and agitated for more tests to confirm it. I had a number of reasons for my conviction that I wasn't T2, total lack of family history of any kind of diabetes, the development path my diabetes followed (very fast for a T2) and the fact that the meds weren't working. I think Dr Idiot gave in and ordered the necessary tests just to get me out of her office. Imagine her surprise when they came back LADA, mine too if it comes to that. Didn't make much difference as far as the treatment is concerned though, up here 1.5/LADA is treated as fast T2 rather than slow T1.

I only explain which flavour I am if someone gives me grief. Their preconceptions are their problem, not mine and I can't be bothered with them until they give me a hard time over it, thankfully a pretty rare occurrence.

 

[Andy HB]

See, I don't actually agree with this notion of 'lifestyle choice'.

Now, I know that I may not be like every other member of 'Joe Public' (thank goodness some may say!), but I most definitely had a lifestyle choice and changing that choice made a difference to my health once I had the kick up the pants to do something about it.

Good food is available (often more cheaply than the 'unhealthy options') and exercise is free, so I don't see why most people can't make that choice for themselves without government intervention. It's not as if the message isn't out there!

I actually spent a lot less for food after diagnosis because what I was buying went a lot further (I'd almost go as far as saying that my food bill halved!).

Andy 🙂

p.s. By the way, I don't believe that for most people type 2 diabetes caused their weight gain (that is a personal opinion and I'll hold my hands up if proved wrong). Indeed, for me, I LOST weight when the insulin resistance really kicked in.

 

[Redkite]

The thing is: in all the industrialised nations there are increasing rates of heart disease, type 2 diabetes and cancers, and at the same time rising levels of obesity. So as a society we are all leading a less healthy lifestyle than in the past, and more members of society will be diagnosed with these conditions. That doesn't mean that the unlucky individuals are any more culpable than those of us who don't get heart disease, T2 or cancer. Instead of pointing the finger of blame, the media should be bringing pressure to bear on the government to introduce preventative measures that will benefit us all. Such as heavy taxes on processed foods and ready meals, and discounts on fresh meat, fruit and grains.

And I would like to see an end to junk-food children's menus in restaurants! So many places offer "nippers' nosh" which consists of really low quality nugget-and-chips type food, rather than offering smaller portions of "real" food on the menu. Many of my son's friends have a diet limited to pizza, sausage, nuggets and chips, with nary a veg crossing their lips! They learn about "healthy eating" in school, but they don't have proper family meals so are learning bad dietary habits - just a bugbear of mine 😉

 

[Northerner]

Now, I know that I may not be like every other member of 'Joe Public' (thank goodness some may say!), but I most definitely had a lifestyle choice and changing that choice made a difference to my health once I had the kick up the pants to do something about it.

...p.s. By the way, I don't believe that for most people type 2 diabetes caused their weight gain (that is a personal opinion and I'll hold my hands up if proved wrong). Indeed, for me, I LOST weight when the insulin resistance really kicked in.

Your first point - in this respect you are just like the many people who wake up one day with a diagnosis of diabetes surely? Were you actively making choices that would lead to you succumbing to a chronic disease, or was it only when you were diagnosed that you realised you needed to make changes? Would those changes have come without the diagnosis, or would you have continued making the same choices and thinking that it only happened to other people?

On the second point, a diet rich in high glycaemic foods will stimulate excessive insulin production leading to weight gain - weight gain increases insulin resistance, so more insulin required to try and keep blood glucose levels under control, so more weight gain. With many people what may then happen is that blood sugar levels are continuously so high that glucose is shed through urine and fat is metabolised for energy, so you start to lose weight. At this point you feel so bad that you go to the doctor's and get diagnosed...

As Mike said earlier, "people diagnosed with D are living exactly the same lifestyle as everyone else - it's just that their bodies can't cope with the carb-saturated modern diet and/or have a twitchy immune system that eats their own pancreas."

 

[Caroline]

Any journalist writing the 'self-inflicted' message should go through the Secret Eaters process, and see how they fare! I bet they are just as bad as the people they vilify in their poisonous articles.

I agree, when I challenegd hubby to keep a food diary for a few days and write EVRYTHING down, in some respects he was really bad.

 

[bev]

And I would like to see an end to junk-food children's menus in restaurants! So many places offer "nippers' nosh" which consists of really low quality nugget-and-chips type food, rather than offering smaller portions of "real" food on the menu. Many of my son's friends have a diet limited to pizza, sausage, nuggets and chips, with nary a veg crossing their lips! They learn about "healthy eating" in school, but they don't have proper family meals so are learning bad dietary habits - just a bugbear of mine 😉

Hi Redkite,

I couldnt agree more!😉There are very few places that offer the healthier options for children and when I used to ask if they did the adults menu for children I got a few odd looks! My middle daughter is at Uni and was horrified to find that 20 year olds 'dont eat veg' - she wasnt having any of that with her housemates (all boys) and now makes a sunday roast but they arent 'allowed' to eat any meat or potato's until they have eaten their veg first - and for some reason they do what she asks! Seriously though I just dont understand adults who 'dont do veg' I mean grow up is what I think - fair enough as a child the texture is odd but by the time your an adult you should be able to tolerate it.🙂Bev