What level of ketones is normal for, like, a non-diabetic?

[Austin_98]

What ketone level would we need to be to be the same as a non-diabetic? An average person, average day kinda thing. Like, would it have to be literally 0.0, or, for example, anything up to 0.3, or 1.4 "normal" etc?

 

[Inka]

@Austin_98 I can only go by my non-diabetic friends. None of them had ketones on the Ketostix when pregnant and having their urine dipped. Sometimes people without diabetes can have ketones for other reasons, eg starvation, a keto diet, etc.

Why do you ask? Are you worried about someone?

 

[Austin_98]

@Austin_98 I can only go by my non-diabetic friends. None of them had ketones on the Ketostix when pregnant and having their urine dipped. Sometimes people without diabetes can have ketones for other reasons, eg starvation, a keto diet, etc.

Why do you ask? Are you worried about someone?

No, not worried about anyone at all. I was just curious, like the question has been floating around in my head. I felt like c**p today and not sure why (blood sugars been a little high, 10-14 range mostly, but not enough to make me feel unwell) so I tested my ketones (the finger-prick tests) and it came back 0.5 (also not enough to make me feel ill, I don't think?) and I wondered if 0.5 was just "normal" or if it was caused by either slightly elevated BG or if I was unwell and it was causing the ketones*

Sorry, just while we're talking ketones, what reading is dangerous or a medical emergency? I've been told to go to A&E if I get a reading of 3.0 or above, but when I was hospitalized my ketones were initially 6.8 and I wasn't considered critically ill or anything (although I felt HORRIBLE).

Sorry for all the questions, I'm still new to all of this and when I have any kind of health problem, I like to learn as much about it as possible and when it comes to Diabetes, I figure you guys are the best source of information (apart from the diabetics team or my endocrinologist, but I can hardly call them every time I have a question).

*I've only experienced DKA once, last December, and it was triggered by infection (a dental abscess).

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

This is from the NHS website @Austin_98

If you do a blood ketone test:

• lower than 0.6mmol/L is a normal reading
• 0.6 to 1.5mmol/L means you're at a slightly increased risk of DKA and should test again in 2 hours
• 1.6 to 2.9mmol/L means you're at an increased risk of DKA and should contact your diabetes team or GP as soon as possible
• 3mmol/L or over means you have a very high risk of DKA and should get medical help immediately

If you do a urine ketone test, a result of more than 2+ means there's a high chance you have DKA and you should get medical help immediately.

Diabetic ketoacidosis

Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is a dangerous complication of diabetes caused by a lack of insulin in the body.

111.wales.nhs.uk

So it sounds like your readings count as ‘normal’.

 

[SimonP]

I think the NHS guidance is rather conservative, ketones may be present post-exercise, if you're not eating (which may well be the case when you're ill and running a bit high and don't want to go higher) and if you're on a keto-diet amongst other things.

I had 2.3mmol/l of ketones after getting back from a long ride, then 0.4 mmol/l a day later, I plan to do more testing after other long rides. Thread here with a graph (they, other graphs showing how the levels are classified, are generally fairly similar to this one): https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/normal-ketone-values.110801/

 

[Austin_98]

This is from the NHS website @Austin_98

If you do a blood ketone test:

• lower than 0.6mmol/L is a normal reading
• 0.6 to 1.5mmol/L means you're at a slightly increased risk of DKA and should test again in 2 hours
• 1.6 to 2.9mmol/L means you're at an increased risk of DKA and should contact your diabetes team or GP as soon as possible
• 3mmol/L or over means you have a very high risk of DKA and should get medical help immediately

If you do a urine ketone test, a result of more than 2+ means there's a high chance you have DKA and you should get medical help immediately.

Diabetic ketoacidosis

Diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is a dangerous complication of diabetes caused by a lack of insulin in the body.

111.wales.nhs.uk

So it sounds like your readings count as ‘normal’.

So does <6 mean that I'm not burning fat? I thought that's what any ketones meant, like even if I'm not at risk for DKA?

 

[SimonP]

Anything above 0 means you're burning fat

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

So does <6 mean that I'm not burning fat? I thought that's what any ketones meant, like even if I'm not at risk for DKA?

I was looking in the context of being at risk of DKA.

Like @SimonP, my understanding is that any ketones suggest you are burning fat. Many people get ‘starvation ketones’ in the morning, or after skipping a meal

I thought you were trying not to lose weight @Austin_98

 

[SimonP]

I also think (from a quick glance rather than in-depth study) that people also almost always have some ketones as they continue to burn fat as well as glucose - this may be down to gaps between meals and residual ketones.

Presumably if one drinks a couple of pints of full-fat coke (and, importantly, takes insulin) the ketones might go away completely while that is being processed. No idea, probably in the literature though.

 

[Austin_98]

I was looking in the context of being at risk of DKA.

Like @SimonP, my understanding is that any ketones suggest you are burning fat. Many people get ‘starvation ketones’ in the morning, or after skipping a meal

I thought you were trying not to lose weight @Austin_98

This is correct! My BMI is up from 16.6 to 17.9 🙂
I wasn't deliberately TRYING to have ketones, more I just wondered if their presence meant fat-burning. I still have a lot of thoughts and urges around "needing" to lose weight, I'm just fighting against them.

 

[Inka]

Well done @Austin_98 Keep fighting 🙂 I hope you’re feeling better for it.

I only test for ketones if my blood sugar is high or if I feel ill. I have no idea what they’re doing the rest of the time!

 

[Austin_98]

Well done @Austin_98 Keep fighting 🙂 I hope you’re feeling better for it.

I only test for ketones if my blood sugar is high or if I feel ill. I have no idea what they’re doing the rest of the time!

Thanks! 🙂
I have more energy for sure. Been managing a little better to do basic daily stuff (pain is as much/more of a problem than weakness/exhaustion though) like just small stuff like I unloaded and reloaded the dishwasher for my mum which made me feel good 'cause I really want to do more stuff to help her out and I'm able to do more now 🙂

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I have more energy for sure. Been managing a little better to do basic daily stuff

Ah that’s great to hear @Austin_98

Keep focussing on your plan that is working, and resist those urges that you know aren’t helpful for you.