What level of insulin should you try to keep below?

[Jon-Manchester]

Hello
i hope everyone are well

Whilst on holiday and indulging in more than usual carb rich food, I started to think about insulin resistance etc
As a T1 it feels like we have an advantage as we know exactly how much insulin we inject every day, so we can manage our diets and associated insulin doses

So does anyone know at what levels of insulin per day is starting to be too high (I.e could lead to T2 etc) and what is considered a good range , if there is such a thing?

Jon

 

[Pumper_Sue]

Everyone is different, there is no set amount of insulin for anyone. You need what you need..
Lifestyle, age, health and medication are all factors which are totally different for everyone.
Type 1 is autoimmune type2 is not, so again no comparison what so ever.

 

[mikeyB]

Insulin resistance doesn’t depend on how much insulin you inject per meal. I used to use more insulin when I was physically active and eating more, now I use half as much being unable to be active, but I am of course eating less.

And there isn’t such a thing as good range, it depends on what you eat. As you have already adjusted your diet, you won’t need as much insulin as when on holiday. Just like a normal human body.

 

[Inka]

So does anyone know at what levels of insulin per day is starting to be too high (I.e could lead to T2 etc) and what is considered a good range , if there is such a thing?

There isn’t such a thing. You need the insulin you need. If our own islet cells hadn’t been destroyed, our pancreas would release the insulin we need to keep our blood sugar in range. Our pancreas can no longer do that so we take over the job by injecting the insulin we need.

Type 1 and Type 2 are different conditions.

 

[Inka]

If you’re asking if Type 1s can develop insulin resistance, yes they can, but that’s related to becoming overweight not the amount of insulin you inject.

 

[Lucyr]

Even as a type 2 when worried my breakfast ratio was becoming too much when I got to 1u for 6g carbs, I was told “you just need whatever insulin doses you need, there’s not a cap on doses”.

 

[helli]

Too much insulin is the amount that causes you to hypo.
Too little insulin is the amount that causes your levels to run too high.

Apart from that, there is no correct amount. We are all different weights, eat different food, do different levels of exercise, deal with different amounts of stress, have different insulin sensitivity, ...

 

[Ljc]

T2s are often producing lots if insulin due to either insulin resistance or for some reason there insulin just doesn’t work as well as it should.

Folks with T1 have an autoimmune condition, their immune system for some reason as yet not fully understood , takes a dislike to the Beta cells (insulin producing cells) in the pancreas and destroys them,so T1 does not produce enough insulin .
It is impossible for T1 to morph into T2 .

Insulin resistance can happen with all types of diabetes . It is not related to the amount of insulin we inject , it can be due to being overweight or hidden fat around the organs .

Those on insulin no matter what type of diabetes they have , need the insulin they need .
Be it 30 units or 300 units a day.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

I absolutely agree that there are no fixed amounts, and that insulin sensitivity can vary significantly from person-to-person - as indeed can the amount of carbohydrate a person chooses to eat.

However, just like there are generally ‘default’ suggestions for insulin:carb ratios, and insulin sensitivity - there are also general rules of thumb for Total Daily Dose.

It’s likely that the split between basal and bolus will be somewhere between 40:60 and 60:40.

It’s also quite common for your TDD to be roughly your weight in kilos x 0.55

Of course there’s no reason to worry if your stats don’t fit those expectations, but it might help put your mind at rest?

The same is true of things like the 500 rule and 100 rule. Rhey aren’t set in stone, they are just averages and starting points. Plus there are alternatives for all of them!

 

[Jon-Manchester]

Those on insulin no matter what type of diabetes they have , need the insulin they need .
Be it 30 units or 300 units a day.

OK sounds like I did a rubbish job in explaining my question, my question didnt really stem from that I dont know what T1 or T2 diabetes is, though admittingly I know far more about T1 than i do about T2, or any of the other type of diabetes.
I do understand that if you eat x g of carbs that you need to bolus against that amount as diabetic. If I didnt I would be dead by now.

I am trying to live my life as healthy as I can, which is where my question comes from. Perhaps I should have explained that.

So my question really stemmed from the understanding that prolonged highlevels of insulin in the body isnt good, just like it wouldnt be good to have highlevels of any growth hormone for prolonged periods. As it isnt a natural state.
Of course, you need some and if you eat carbs then you need to bolus for it. I am coming more from the perspective of healthy living.

It is impossible for T1 to morph into T2 .

Now wouldnt that be nice 🙂
What I meant was that there is nothing stopping you from having both T1 and T2 (though how would you spot it I guess, which is where my thinking of insulin numbers came from)

 

[Jon-Manchester]

I absolutely agree that there are no fixed amounts, and that insulin sensitivity can vary significantly from person-to-person - as indeed can the amount of carbohydrate a person chooses to eat.

However, just like there are generally ‘default’ suggestions for insulin:carb ratios, and insulin sensitivity - there are also general rules of thumb for Total Daily Dose.

It’s likely that the split between basal and bolus will be somewhere between 40:60 and 60:40.

It’s also quite common for your TDD to be roughly your weight in kilos x 0.55

Of course there’s no reason to worry if your stats don’t fit those expectations, but it might help put your mind at rest?

The same is true of things like the 500 rule and 100 rule. Rhey aren’t set in stone, they are just averages and starting points. Plus there are alternatives for all of them!

Thanks Mike, yes it does, I was just really thinking about it from a health perspective.

 

[Inka]

If you’re asking how to retain your insulin sensitivity @Jon-Manchester then as far as I understand the answer is to maintain a healthy weight and a healthy level of fat in your body (ie it’s no good being a healthy weight if you’re mainly fat rather than muscle).

Eating low fat can help too, as can exercise.

 

[Jon-Manchester]

If you’re asking how to retain your insulin sensitivity @Jon-Manchester then as far as I understand the answer is to maintain a healthy weight and a healthy level of fat in your body (ie it’s no good being a healthy weight if you’re mainly fat rather than muscle).

Eating low fat can help too, as can exercise.

Thanks Inka. I guess I am kind of asking that. I suspect that my question doesnt really have an answer

 

[Inka]

Thanks Inka. I guess I am kind of asking that. I suspect that my question doesnt really have an answer

There is ‘an answer’ but I don’t know if it’s the only answer @Jon-Manchester Eating a low fat plant-based diet can improve insulin sensitivity. There’s lots of info online. Here’s one site:

https://www.forksoverknives.com/wellness/plant-based-diet-benefits-for-type-1-diabetes/

Personally, I found it does reduce my need for insulin when I eat low fat vegan. I’m not vegan, but I do eat a lot of plant-based food, and when I feel my sensitivity needs a boost, I eat low fat WFPB for a while. If you choose to try it, watch out for hypos. It can really reduce your insulin needs and quite suddenly too so be cautious.

 

[Jon-Manchester]

There is ‘an answer’ but I don’t know if it’s the only answer @Jon-Manchester Eating a low fat plant-based diet can improve insulin sensitivity. There’s lots of info online. Here’s one site:

https://www.forksoverknives.com/wellness/plant-based-diet-benefits-for-type-1-diabetes/

Personally, I found it does reduce my need for insulin when I eat low fat vegan. I’m not vegan, but I do eat a lot of plant-based food, and when I feel my sensitivity needs a boost, I eat low fat WFPB for a while. If you choose to try it, watch out for hypos. It can really reduce your insulin needs and quite suddenly too so be cautious.

Interesting! Thank you for sharing

 

[helli]

So my question really stemmed from the understanding that prolonged highlevels of insulin in the body isnt good, just like it wouldnt be good to have highlevels of any growth hormone for prolonged periods. As it isnt a natural state.

Injected insulin lasts for limited time.
The problems are prolonged high levels of insulin comes with insulin resistance. In other words, it is with type 2, not Type 1, that you can experience high levels of insulin that are not good for your body.
If you match your insulin doses to the food you eat, you will not have prolonged high levels of insulin.

 

[nonethewiser]

Never worried about insulin usage, need what you need.

Maybe weird but I need to take into consideration protein & fat in larger quantities, so not just carbs alone that increases insulin usage.