Weight increase with insulin

[SB2015]

Can anyone direct me to any papers on why larger doses of insulin can cause increased insulin resistance?

I have always thought that it was just that larger doses of insulin would be needed when eating more carbs and it would be the higher carbs that would cause the weight gain. I was surprised when it was suggested that higher doses of insulin can lead to insulin resistance.

I am interested in reading any research into this

 

[AndBreathe]

Can anyone direct me to any papers on why larger doses of insulin can cause increased insulin resistance?

I have always thought that it was just that larger doses of insulin would be needed when eating more carbs and it would be the higher carbs that would cause the weight gain. I was surprised when it was suggested that higher doses of insulin can lead to insulin resistance.

I am interested in reading any research into this

Hi SB2015 - I watched a very interesting video recently which covered just that. Typically for this time of year, there was a lot going on and I'm not 100% certain the link below was it. I'd go 90% certain, but forgive me if I'm wrong. There is certainly a lot about insulin resistance in it though

(And a Happy New Year to you and yours.)

 

[DaveB]

Can anyone direct me to any papers on why larger doses of insulin can cause increased insulin resistance?

I have always thought that it was just that larger doses of insulin would be needed when eating more carbs and it would be the higher carbs that would cause the weight gain. I was surprised when it was suggested that higher doses of insulin can lead to insulin resistance.

I am interested in reading any research into this

Hi. You understanding is the same as mine i.e. logically it's the carbs that cause any weight gain. I will be interested if anyone can show any links to papers on insulin resistance

 

[harbottle]

Insulin: too much of a good thing is bad - BMC Medicine

Background Insulin shares a limited physiological concentration range with other endocrine hormones. Not only too low, but also too high systemic insulin levels are detrimental for body functions. Main body The physiological function and clinical relevance of insulin are usually seen in...

bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com

This article says that high insulin levels blunt the movement of glucose into cells, but don’t affect processing of fat and protein, which is also something insulin does.

 

[Sarahp]

I haven’t any evidence but it’s something my DN has mentioned previously re when I was gaining weight and on insulin for my type 2, I need to do more research in case I am put back on insulin in the future but weight gain was pretty rapid.

 

[helli]

Can anyone direct me to any papers on why larger doses of insulin can cause increased insulin resistance?

I wonder, is it the large doses of insulin cause insulin resistance or that insulin resistance requires large doses of insulin?
I have read some saying that “excess insulin” causes weight gain as an explanation of why it is common for people with insulin resistance carry excess weight - the insulin resistance requires extra insulin which causes weight gain.
However, I have not done any research in this area ; it is just what I have read on fora.

 

[SB2015]

Insulin: too much of a good thing is bad - BMC Medicine

Background Insulin shares a limited physiological concentration range with other endocrine hormones. Not only too low, but also too high systemic insulin levels are detrimental for body functions. Main body The physiological function and clinical relevance of insulin are usually seen in...

bmcmedicine.biomedcentral.com

This article says that high insulin levels blunt the movement of glucose into cells, but don’t affect processing of fat and protein, which is also something insulin does.

An interesting study. I am unsure how we can have ‘too much insulin’ for very long as we would then go hypo and rebalance with some glucose to match it. The study was done with people using a TDD of 40 units or less. I known that I am in that range, (unless it’s Christmas!!!). I was aware that for big meals (>60g) I found I needed higher bolus. Perhaps this is linked. More reading and research to do.

 

[Robin]

I was aware that for big meals (>60g) I found I needed higher bolus. Perhaps this is linked. More reading and research to do

I need more insulin for the extra carbs if I have a carby meal, and my theory is this:-
I have a little bit of residual insulin production, like most Type 1s (there was a study done in the US, but I can’t find the reference). So if I eat, say, 30 carbs, some of those carbs may be mopped up by my own pancreas putting out a little bit (not a lot, obviously), so I will need a little bit less injected insulin. If I eat a further 30 carbs on top of that, my own pancreas has already done what it can, and I need injected insulin for the whole of the additional 30 carbs.

 

[SB2015]

I need more insulin for the extra carbs if I have a carby meal, and my theory is this:-
I have a little bit of residual insulin production, like most Type 1s (there was a study done in the US, but I can’t find the reference). So if I eat, say, 30 carbs, some of those carbs may be mopped up by my own pancreas putting out a little bit (not a lot, obviously), so I will need a little bit less injected insulin. If I eat a further 30 carbs on top of that, my own pancreas has already done what it can, and I need injected insulin for the whole of the additional 30 carbs.

That makes sense, although for me my c-peptide showed that I now had virtually no insulin production left, however every little helps.

 

[Robin]

That makes sense, although for me my c-peptide showed that I now had virtually no insulin production left, however every little helps.

I’ve just started reading the paper, and there’s an article on obesity. It’s in the Daily Telegraph, so will be behind a paywall, I suspect. But basically, it’s an interview with a bariatric surgeon, talking about the role of Leptin in telling your body you’ve had enough to eat. He talks about Leptin resistance, and states that
'The culprit is the hormone Insulin. Leptin and insulin have a common signalling pathway within the hypothalamus. If insulin levels are high, then the insulin will block the receptor that leptin is supposed to activate. [the patient] has a typical Western diet that includes lots of sugar and refined carbohydrate. In addition he will be much more likely to snack between meals. This leads to lots of insulin being produced and that blocks the leptin signal from getting through'

 

[harbottle]

Leptin is heavily involved in insulin resistance and regulation of glucose. I believe researchers are looking at it to generate new treatments for T2.

 

[Inka]

An interesting study. I am unsure how we can have ‘too much insulin’ for very long as we would then go hypo and rebalance with some glucose to match it. The study was done with people using a TDD of 40 units or less. I known that I am in that range, (unless it’s Christmas!!!). I was aware that for big meals (>60g) I found I needed higher bolus. Perhaps this is linked. More reading and research to do.

It’s because our insulin is exogenous. Some insulin is ‘wasted’ (not used to deal with carbs) or poorly targeted. Most people lose weight when they go on a pump - I did and I was slim to start with. That’s because in order to get control, we use blunt tools (MDI) whereas a pump is a slightly sharper tool. Therefore we can cut down our doses slightly and focus them better (eg in basal rates).

It’s hard to find studies because they all go on about Type 2, which is a different matter, but, for example, I know a number of people who did DAFNE and had their doses reduced. This wasn’t because they were going hypo all the time, it was because they’d built up to more than they needed.

 

[Inka]

I haven’t any evidence but it’s something my DN has mentioned previously re when I was gaining weight and on insulin for my type 2, I need to do more research in case I am put back on insulin in the future but weight gain was pretty rapid.

It’s different for Type 2s as most have insulin resistance and metabolic unbalance. Adding more insulin to someone who’s already insulin resistant can cause further weight gain.

 

[RichardsUsername]

Insulin-associated weight gain in diabetes--causes, effects and coping strategies

Found the above. Don't know if it is relevant.

 

[nonethewiser]

Hi. You understanding is the same as mine i.e. logically it's the carbs that cause any weight gain.

That's rubbish otherwise all people with type 1 would be overweight.

On pump course many years ago chatted with others who consumed around 300g of carbs daily & were on slim side & far from overweight, so figure that out if your theory is true.

Don't think I've ever experienced insulin resistance in 42 years, diet isn't restrictive but if I have periods of over indulgence weight increases, that isn't insulin resistance that's just bolus doses going up due to said overindulgence.

Once tried a very low carb diet & it didn't lead to a reduction in TDD, at same time insulin needs didn't increase all it just led to was more injections due to amount of corrections needed to suit diet, do know that this isn't just my own experience having been member here for a very long time now.

 

[Tdm]

I would second that...eating low carb just made me insulin resistant so i ended up on the same sort of insulin dose.
I still do an occasional low carb meal when i want a break from diabetes related peaks/drama

 

[Sarahp]

It’s different for Type 2s as most have insulin resistance and metabolic unbalance. Adding more insulin to someone who’s already insulin resistant can cause further weight gain.

Thank you @Inka much appreciated, seem to be avoiding it at the moment and back losing weight but still interested to learn more and will read the links as will help me with my volunteer work.