Wearing masks make approximately zero difference

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Amity Island

Amity Island

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Masks make no difference in reducing the spread of Covid, according to an extensive new review by Cochrane—the gold standard for evaluating health interventions.


www.city-journal.org

Approximately Zero

Masks make no difference in reducing the spread of Covid, according to an extensive new review.
www.city-journal.org www.city-journal.org
 
Amity Island said:
Masks make no difference in reducing the spread of Covid, according to an extensive new review by Cochrane—the gold standard for evaluating health interventions.


www.city-journal.org

Approximately Zero

Masks make no difference in reducing the spread of Covid, according to an extensive new review.
www.city-journal.org www.city-journal.org
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Mostly it's saying the evidence is rather weak. Most of the studies predate the pandemic (so were involving different viruses at lower prevalence), hence the comment "Hand hygiene programmes may help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses." which is true but not thought to be true for SARS-CoV-2.

We are uncertain whether wearing masks or N95/P2 respirators helps to slow the spread of respiratory viruses based on the studies we assessed.​
 
Bruce Stephens said:
"Hand hygiene programmes may help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses." which is true but not thought to be true for SARS-CoV-2.
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WOW! so that's both masks and handwashing which there is little evidence of them being effective.
 
Amity Island said:
WOW! so that's both masks and handwashing which there is little evidence of them being effective.
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Handwashing is effective for other viruses (and bacteria and other things), but not so relevant for this particular one. (And apparently the alcohol sanitisers don't work well for norovirus.)

Masks obviously can work. What seems not to work so well is the public health intervention of advising people to wear masks. https://gidmk.medium.com/do-masks-work-for-covid-19-36ccfca4e107

(I seem to remember an article saying that we don't really have a good idea about the relative effectiveness of any of the NPIs used, though I can't seem to find it now. Knowing those details may not help for the next pandemic anyway, I guess.)
 
My personal experience was that during the (2year?) period when the majority of people were wearing masks in enclosed spaces, and keeping around 2m apart from others in all locations I had absolutely NO colds. Neither did most of my friends, nor the majority of people in my house.

There also wasn’t much of a ‘flu season for those years (such that official bodies were worried about a bumper season this winter).

But… Almost everyone I know has had one, or a series of horrendous coughs and colds this year. I’ve had several, and still have the remnants of the one that I picked up in January.

So I may not be Cochrane, and I confess I'm not really interested in reading the statistical acrobatics in the link, because I’ve satisfied myself as to the significant reduction in transmission of coughs, colds and other respiratory infections that happened when masks were being worn and social distancing was being practiced by my own observations.

It made sense that it would work. And I saw it working. And then mask-wearing stopped. So people with coughs/colds breathed out more material. And I started getting respiratory infections again.

That was my experience.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
I wonder if the significant reduction in international travel was significant in reduction in flu. (Also the unusually good hand hygiene.)
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I’m pretty sure it all contributed personally.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
My personal experience was that during the (2year?) period when the majority of people were wearing masks in enclosed spaces, and keeping around 2m apart from others in all locations I had absolutely NO colds. Neither did most of my friends, nor the majority of people in my house.

There also wasn’t much of a ‘flu season for those years (such that official bodies were worried about a bumper season this winter).

But… Almost everyone I know has had one, or a series of horrendous coughs and colds this year. I’ve had several, and still have the remnants of the one that I picked up in January.

So I may not be Cochrane, and I confess I'm not really interested in reading the statistical acrobatics in the link, because I’ve satisfied myself as to the significant reduction in transmission of coughs, colds and other respiratory infections that happened when masks were being worn and social distancing was being practiced by my own observations.

It made sense that it would work. And I saw it working. And then mask-wearing stopped. So people with coughs/colds breathed out more material. And I started getting respiratory infections again.

That was my experience.
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Not forgetting hand washing & hand sanitizers that were used everywhere when entering buildings, plus tighter cleaning schedules in same establishments. All great measures in reducing viruses & infections
 
I'm wondering what will they be recommending next time regarding masks? Given they were already advised by w.h.o before the covid pandemic began that there was no evidence masks worked for respiratory viruses.

Personally, I think if you are not coughing and sneezing then you won't be infectious. If you are ill stay at home.
 
nonethewiser said:
Not forgetting hand washing & hand sanitizers that were used everywhere when entering buildings, plus tighter cleaning schedules in same establishments. All great measures in reducing viruses & infections
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Yes indeed. I think it was a combination of many measures which all played a part.

And if the evidence gathered from the implementation of public health measures during the Covid 19 pandemic leads to recommendations that masks should be worn for future potential infections / pandemics I’d be more than happy to wear one again. 🙂
 
Amity Island said:
I'm wondering what will they be recommending next time regarding masks? Given they were already advised by w.h.o before the covid pandemic began that there was no evidence masks worked for respiratory viruses.
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I hope it would depend on the nature of the virus causing the pandemic, but I imagine masks will be part of what's recommended if it's a respiratory illness.
 
Amity Island said:
Given they were already advised by w.h.o before the covid pandemic began that there was no evidence masks worked for respiratory viruses.
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That isn’t WHO’s current position though as I understand it?

From 2023

“WHO has updated its guidelines on mask wearing in community settings, COVID-19 treatments, and clinical management. This is part of a continuous process of reviewing such materials, working with guideline development groups composed of independent, international experts who consider the latest available evidence and the changing epidemiology.

Masks continue to be a key tool against COVID-19​

”

www.who.int

WHO updates COVID-19 guidelines on masks, treatments and patient care

The update is part of a continuous process of reviewing such materials, working with guideline development groups composed of independent, international experts.
www.who.int www.who.int
 
bulkbiker said:
When it states clearly on the box they come in that they are ineffective against respiratory viruses why would you do that?
Cloth masks are even less effective than that.. seems an odd position to take.
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Well I won't have to will I?

If the balance of all the evidence now clearly and unequivocally points to zero effect, they won't ever form part of a public health effort to reduce the impact of a pandemic in the future.

I experienced a personal, noticeable benefit of reduction in cough/cold/flu type illnesses to zero during the period of lockdowns, mask wearing, handwashing, and social distancing (some of which I was happy to attribute to the wearing of masks by people who are infected/infectious with coughs/colds etc). But if this analysis of 15 trials is now adopted as proof that masks made no difference I won't need to wear one. Which I'd be glad about because they were quite unpleasant and a bit of a faff tbh.

So I'm happy either way 🙂
 
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bulkbiker said:
Interesting positions...
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I don't think it's an uncommon position? I was never wearing a mask for me. My uderstanding was that I was wearing a mask to help reduce the spread of infection, eg if I happened to be carrying Sars cov 2 without showing any symptoms, or if I had some mild / inconclusive symptoms, but was testing negative via LFT.

I don't know anyone who wasn't delighted when the guidance changed and mask-wearing was no longer required.

But I wore them because I believed it helped other people, and helped generally to reduce the impact of the pandemic. The unpleasantness was a small price to pay. Especially when the potential impact of infection on some vulnerable people was so huge.

I wouldn't have wanted to be the person with a vaguely tickly throat in Asda on Tuesday that coughed next to Doris while browsing for apples, only for me to test positive on Friday, and for Doris to have picked up sars cov 2 from me, and end up on death's door in hospital with C19 two weeks later.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
That isn’t WHO’s current position though as I understand it?

From 2023

“WHO has updated its guidelines on mask wearing in community settings, COVID-19 treatments, and clinical management. This is part of a continuous process of reviewing such materials, working with guideline development groups composed of independent, international experts who consider the latest available evidence and the changing epidemiology.

Masks continue to be a key tool against COVID-19​

”

www.who.int

WHO updates COVID-19 guidelines on masks, treatments and patient care

The update is part of a continuous process of reviewing such materials, working with guideline development groups composed of independent, international experts.
www.who.int www.who.int
Click to expand...

In light of the cochrane review (masks are zero effective in the pandemic), what evidence is W.H.Os current "recommendation" based on?

Their advice (to wear them) before 2020 was always contrary (no evidence they were effective) to the evidence they had for face masks, hand hygeine, respiratory etiquette. Yet; they still recommended them.
 
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