Understanding spikes

[KatMoo]

Hi, I’m officially prediabetic have been for almost 18 months but didn’t know as I wasn’t told at my MOT appointment with the nurse until recently. I didn’t even know there was such a thing.
Type 2 is quite prevalent in my large family. My brother died at New Year from complications of his Diabetes. I swore I would never get T2, yet I’m on the cusp it seems.
I am testing before and 2 hours after meals. I’m trying to understand the spikes and what triggers them. They have been in the lower numbers 5.6-7.6 fasting, but I’d never checked after food before and see that I’m between 9.9-11 at 30 mins after breakfast. Then at 2 hours between 5.6-7.2
I have been told by a friend with T2 not to worry about it, the doc/nurse won’t do anything until I am at 15+
I don’t want to get to that level, I don’t want anything to be ‘done’ - I assume that is diagnosis and mediation?
I would like to know the best way to test myself at this stage.
I am eating very little carbs now, 2 small new potatoes with my main meal - that’s it.
I’m also Gluten Free so avoiding breads, pasta etc is usually for me. Potatoes will be the most difficult.
Is red lentil pasta ok - or is that a carb?
Thank you I’m anticipation of your replies and help, it’s a relief to be here!

 

[Inka]

Welcome @KatMoo 🙂 I’m sorry to hear about your brother.

Everyone’s blood sugar goes up after a meal (and at other times too). So movement of blood sugar is ok as long as it’s not extreme and as long as it comes down in a timely manner.

These are the Type 2 targets:

If you have Type 2 diabetes​

• before meals: 4 to 7mmol/l
• two hours after meals: less than 8.5mmol/l

.

 

[leonS]

It is much better to test before and three hours after each meal for a few days and then not test for several days or even weeks, rather than testing once or twice each day.

A single random test will tell yot very little, a test before and three hours after will tell you much more. Never waste time with a single test.

You are looking for how the BG goes up after a meal. As well a what the actual value is.

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi @KatMoo Being prediabetic should make it relatively easy to get back into the normal Blood Glucose range, though the chances are that you will always need to be careful about carbohydrates. But I get the impression that you don't yet have a good understanding about which foods have carbs. Take a look at www.dietdoctor or just google a food name = Carbohydrate and you will see there are some in almost all processed food, even in so called healthy breakfast cereals like oats.

I would offer a slight alternative BG meter reading target range to that provided by @Inka
I have been advised and used :

1). Initially keep a food diary in order to find foods which both suit your body and which you enjoy eating. This is a marathon and while it doesn't need to be a progressive disease, you need to find a way of eating which you are happy to adopt for the rest of your life. Generally the safest foods for a T2 diabetic are proteins and fats. Fats don't affect Blood Glucose at all and proteins only do so with a small and slow response.

2).Test before and after each meal (2hrs after first bite). Only bother testing at other times if you suspect you will get an abnormally early or abnormally late BG peak e.g. When eating almost pure starch or sugar (fast response) or eating high carbs but with lots of fat or alcohol (a delayed response).For a fast response test 1hrs after first bite then at 1 1/2 hrs and at 2hrs to see if it drops nicely or builds up. A temporary spike is quite normal since it takes time for the body to produce more insulin in response to the glucose from a meal.

3). For normal meals (or delayed response) try to keep the highest BG Reading below 8.0 (where Inka is saying 8.5 is OK).

4). Try to keep the 2hr reading to no more than 2.0 mmol higher than the pre-meal reading - anything higher and you should look to see what the cause is and either reduce the portion or cut that food out by finding a substitute.

I think the 4.0 to 7 mmol/l before meals is a bit too simplistic, indeed for many with Dawn Phenomenon, myself included even though I'm back down into the normal BG range, it is almost impossible to avoid going over 7.0mmol before breakfast. This is because with Dawn Phenomenon the liver 'helps you out' so you can hunt/gather breakfast like our cave dwelling ancestors by dumping glucose into the bloodstream. So I can often see a fasting BG of over 7.0 mmol. I'm not concerned about it unless it is higher than 8.0.

I don't subscribe to all the talk about using calorie reduction to treat T2 diabetes, cutting back on the carbohydrates reduces Blood Glucose either directly or via loss of visceral fat around the organs. When I went Low Carb I actually increased my Calorie intake because I started eating more fat as I replace carbs with proteins and fats!

 

[KatMoo]

Welcome @KatMoo 🙂 I’m sorry to hear about your brother.

Everyone’s blood sugar goes up after a meal (and at other times too). So movement of blood sugar is ok as long as it’s not extreme and as long as it comes down in a timely manner.

These are the Type 2 targets:

If you have Type 2 diabetes​

• before meals: 4 to 7mmol/l
• two hours after meals: less than 8.5mmol/l

.

Thank you yes, I realise that - my concern was the spikes at 9/10 directly following foods that don’t contain carbs or sugar - just bananas and blueberries or oats and banana.

 

[KatMoo]

Hi @KatMoo Being prediabetic should make it relatively easy to get back into the normal Blood Glucose range, though the chances are that you will always need to be careful about carbohydrates. But I get the impression that you don't yet have a good understanding about which foods have carbs. Take a look at www.dietdoctor or just google a food name = Carbohydrate and you will see there are some in almost all processed food, even in so called healthy breakfast cereals like oats.

I would offer a slight alternative BG meter reading target range to that provided by @Inka
I have been advised and used :

1). Initially keep a food diary in order to find foods which both suit your body and which you enjoy eating. This is a marathon and while it doesn't need to be a progressive disease, you need to find a way of eating which you are happy to adopt for the rest of your life. Generally the safest foods for a T2 diabetic are proteins and fats. Fats don't affect Blood Glucose at all and proteins only do so with a small and slow response.

2).Test before and after each meal (2hrs after first bite). Only bother testing at other times if you suspect you will get an abnormally early or abnormally late BG peak e.g. When eating almost pure starch or sugar (fast response) or eating high carbs but with lots of fat or alcohol (a delayed response).For a fast response test 1hrs after first bite then at 1 1/2 hrs and at 2hrs to see if it drops nicely or builds up. A temporary spike is quite normal since it takes time for the body to produce more insulin in response to the glucose from a meal.

3). For normal meals (or delayed response) try to keep the highest BG Reading below 8.0 (where Inka is saying 8.5 is OK).

4). Try to keep the 2hr reading to no more than 2.0 mmol higher than the pre-meal reading - anything higher and you should look to see what the cause is and either reduce the portion or cut that food out by finding a substitute.

I think the 4.0 to 7 mmol/l before meals is a bit too simplistic, indeed for many with Dawn Phenomenon, myself included even though I'm back down into the normal BG range, it is almost impossible to avoid going over 7.0mmol before breakfast. This is because with Dawn Phenomenon the liver 'helps you out' so you can hunt/gather breakfast like our cave dwelling ancestors by dumping glucose into the bloodstream. So I can often see a fasting BG of over 7.0 mmol. I'm not concerned about it unless it is higher than 8.0.

I don't subscribe to all the talk about using calorie reduction to treat T2 diabetes, cutting back on the carbohydrates reduces Blood Glucose either directly or via loss of visceral fat around the organs. When I went Low Carb I actually increased my Calorie intake because I started eating more fat as I replace carbs with proteins and fats!

Thank you, the Dawn phenomenon is really interesting and makes perfect sense. I think the highest I have had at that time is around 7, so far!
I’m keeping a detailed food diary to try to pin point what particular foods cause my sugar to rise. It’s a slow process of elimination at the moment. I don’t drink alcohol so that’s one less issue to concern myself with.
The GF alternatives that I am used to using instead of usual Pasta is something I need to work out. I will follow the links you provided - thank you again.

 

[Leadinglights]

Hi, I’m officially prediabetic have been for almost 18 months but didn’t know as I wasn’t told at my MOT appointment with the nurse until recently. I didn’t even know there was such a thing.
Type 2 is quite prevalent in my large family. My brother died at New Year from complications of his Diabetes. I swore I would never get T2, yet I’m on the cusp it seems.
I am testing before and 2 hours after meals. I’m trying to understand the spikes and what triggers them. They have been in the lower numbers 5.6-7.6 fasting, but I’d never checked after food before and see that I’m between 9.9-11 at 30 mins after breakfast. Then at 2 hours between 5.6-7.2
I have been told by a friend with T2 not to worry about it, the doc/nurse won’t do anything until I am at 15+
I don’t want to get to that level, I don’t want anything to be ‘done’ - I assume that is diagnosis and mediation?
I would like to know the best way to test myself at this stage.
I am eating very little carbs now, 2 small new potatoes with my main meal - that’s it.
I’m also Gluten Free so avoiding breads, pasta etc is usually for me. Potatoes will be the most difficult.
Is red lentil pasta ok - or is that a carb?
Thank you I’m anticipation of your replies and help, it’s a relief to be here!

Edamame bean or black bean pasta is I believe gluten free and also only 15g ish per 100g pasta, I find a 25g dry weight when cooked is plenty

 

[Christy]

Thank you yes, I realise that - my concern was the spikes at 9/10 directly following foods that don’t contain carbs or sugar - just bananas and blueberries or oats and banana.

All 3 contain carbs which may or may not affect you as everyone reacts differently. You can Google carb levels per 100g or use the Carbs & Cals book which may help you.

 

[KatMoo]

It is much better to test before and three hours after each meal for a few days and then not test for several days or even weeks, rather than testing once or twice each day.

A single random test will tell yot very little, a test before and three hours after will tell you much more. Never waste time with a single test.

You are looking for how the BG goes up after a meal. As well a what the actual value is.

 

[Inka]

Thank you yes, I realise that - my concern was the spikes at 9/10 directly following foods that don’t contain carbs or sugar - just bananas and blueberries or oats and banana.

All those foods do contain carbs - bananas are reasonably high in carbs as are oats, so maybe it was that?

 

[KatMoo]

Thank you, yes I’m testing directly before and 2 hours after meals - at each mealtime. I hadn’t seen the 3 hour advice previously.

 

[KatMoo]

All those foods do contain carbs - bananas are reasonably high in carbs as are oats, so maybe it was that?

Thank you - my terminology isn’t correct, sorry I meant foods that were advised ok - rather than high carbs like cereals / breads etc.

 

[Inka]

I would offer a slight alternative BG meter reading target range to that provided by @Inka

To be clear, the advice I posted was advice from Diabetes U.K. itself 🙂

 

[KatMoo]

Edamame bean or black bean pasta is I believe gluten free and also only 15g ish per 100g pasta, I find a 25g dry weight when cooked is plenty

That’s great, I have used Edamame bean pasta before - I’ll get that and try the black bean pasta too. Thanks.

 

[Inka]

Thank you - my terminology isn’t correct, sorry I meant foods that were advised ok - rather than high carbs like cereals / breads etc.

Ah, no problem 🙂 Personally, I’d avoid bananas. Oats are ok for some Type 2s but it’s important to get proper oats - ie jumbo oats, steel cut whole oats or similar- and keep the portion moderate if you eat them.

Foods that ‘work’ can be very individual.

 

[Cherrelle DUK]

Hi KatMoo, welcome to the forum.

It's great that you're being so proactive as you have improved your chance of nipping this in the bud. Do you know what your HbA1c number was? It can help to have an idea of your goal in relation to where you're starting from

As you can see, there are many ways to manage diabetes as people do what works best for them. Keeping a food diary is fab as is testing 2/3 hours after your meal, most people do 2 hours.

As mentioned, all foods will cause a spike immediately after, even those with no carbs and sugars which is why we leave a it of time before we test as you're looking for what your numbers are once your food has begun digestion. You're going to find certain foods impact you that don't impact others. That's totally fine and one of the benefits of testing, so you can personalise your plan.

It sounds like you're on the right track so along with some exercise, you should hopefully see an improvement in your numbers when you next go for a blood test.

Do have a poke around this forum and main site as we've got load of info that may be helpful and as always, let us know if we can help in any way.

 

[Leadinglights]

Thank you yes, I realise that - my concern was the spikes at 9/10 directly following foods that don’t contain carbs or sugar - just bananas and blueberries or oats and banana.

Not sure what you mean here, are you thinking blueberries, bananas and oats don't have carbs or is it after eating those you get the 9/10 reading after 2 hours. All those foods are quite high carb, blueberries are probably the highest of the 'berries'

 

[ianf0ster]

Thank you yes, I realise that - my concern was the spikes at 9/10 directly following foods that don’t contain carbs or sugar - just bananas and blueberries or oats and banana.

You are getting confused between added Sugar and natural sugar. Carbs are all starches and sugars, natural sugars are still sugars!
All fruit contains sugars - tropical fruits contain the most and so is avoided by many t2 diabetics. Berries tend to contain the least though Blueberries are borderline for some of us (Straw, Rasp and Black berries are all good).

The worst way to consume fruit is fruit juice followed by smoothies. No matter what they may claim. fruit smoothies are never innocent! At least with whole fruit you get the fibre, it helps slow down the spike compared with juice which is more like consuming teaspoons of refined sugar with a few micro nutrients thrown in.

 

[Inka]

@KatMoo has explained they inadvertently used the wrong terms and that they know those foods have carbs in. See their post above and my reply to it.

 

[Drummer]

Thank you - my terminology isn’t correct, sorry I meant foods that were advised ok - rather than high carbs like cereals / breads etc.

I was a full blown diabetic with a diet full of 'healthy' carbohydrates.
By changing all the high starch and high sugar foods to much lower ones - salads and low carb veges - I was back in the normal ranges very quickly.
Rather than a small serving of things as high carb as potato, I can have a stir fry, a curry using cauliflower rather than rice, a fry up with mashed swede to make the bubble and squeak - so my meals are far more delicious and varied now.
You might not need to cut back as drastically as I did, but if you have the genetic makeup for type 2 diabetes it might be reassuring to know that it is all about the carbs, and that the usual options for our daily diet can be left out without it causing problems, rather the exact reverse.