UK COVID-19 undercount due to *** Excel size limit ***

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Eddy Edson

Eddy Edson

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You certainly get the impression the thing is run by amateurs.
 
Docb said:
You certainly get the impression the thing is run by amateurs.
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Highly paid amateurs, assuming this is Serco?
 
Well NHS has never been known for it is it up to date software, and programmes that are able to communicate with each other.
 
Eddy Edson said:
Highly paid amateurs, assuming this is Serco?
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No, it’s Public Health England itself using an outdated form of Excel.
This from the BBC.
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Just like they use the outdated Eatwell guide for people with diabetes.
 
i have experienced something like this where my file on a system had reached its limits and then caused endless problems. can't say what it is but they did put the blame on old systems!
 
Robin said:
No, it’s Public Health England itself using an outdated form of Excel.
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I've seen comments on Twitter suggesting it was columns (limited to 16,384 (or maybe 1 less) rather then 65,536 (or 1 less, which I presume is the row limit)). However, doesn't matter much.

Someone on Ch4 News said that PHE had been advised that their method of accumulating the numbers was potentially problematic and that they should get advice from an expert on how to do it better.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
I've seen comments on Twitter suggesting it was columns (limited to 16,384 (or maybe 1 less) rather then 65,536 (or 1 less, which I presume is the row limit)). However, doesn't matter much.

Someone on Ch4 News said that PHE had been advised that their method of accumulating the numbers was potentially problematic and that they should get advice from an expert on how to do it better.
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Hancock told the House of Commons that PHE system was out dated and they realized in July, and are in the process of of getting it upgraded.
 
grovesy said:
Hancock told the House of Commons that PHE system was out dated and they realized in July, and are in the process of of getting it upgraded.
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How hard is it to upgrade Excel, it is so amateurish it is unbelievable
 
Jon-Manchester said:
How hard is it to upgrade Excel, it is so amateurish it is unbelievable
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In a big, really risk (and so change) averse organisation, with little money and not enough IT support? Can be unimaginably difficult. They should still have improved the situation, obviously, but I can entirely understand the challenges: while it seems to be working, nobody at the right level to authorise fixing it is likely to do so.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
In a big, really risk (and so change) averse organisation, with little money and not enough IT support? Can be unimaginably difficult. They should still have improved the situation, obviously, but I can entirely understand the challenges: while it seems to be working, nobody at the right level to authorise fixing it is likely to do so.
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You are probably right, but to me it sounds like if they had put someone on the task who had even the basic knowledge of what they were doing this would never have happened. The fact that they built it using Excel in it is self pretty evident of someone who lacks experience of something like this rather than using a database.
 
Behind my comment of amateurish was not the use of Excel as such, but not knowing the limitations of it and then acting to make sure those limitations do not compromise the output. PHE no doubt will have an IT department but, but I wonder if this was OKed by them.
 
Docb said:
Behind my comment of amateurish was not the use of Excel as such, but not knowing the limitations of it and then acting to make sure those limitations do not compromise the output. PHE no doubt will have an IT department but, but I wonder if this was OKed by them.
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No @Docb, it would be right to say the use of Excel was amateurish :( Whilst it is useful in many scenarios, it has always been notoriously prone to errors and problems. Given the billions being spent on Test and Trace it would have taken no time or money to set up a secure, limitless (for practical purposes) database and transfer program. It's a nothing job. Excel should never have been considered as the primary repository for such important data :(
 
Northerner said:
No @Docb, it would be right to say the use of Excel was amateurish :( Whilst it is useful in many scenarios, it has always been notoriously prone to errors and problems. Given the billions being spent on Test and Trace it would have taken no time or money to set up a secure, limitless (for practical purposes) database and transfer program. It's a nothing job. Excel should never have been considered as the primary repository for such important data :(
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Absolutely.

The commentary I've seen suggests the plan isn't to do the standard thing and use a database, but rather to divide into a number of Excel sheets to get around the size limit ... ** Boggle **
 
Eddy Edson said:
Absolutely.

The commentary I've seen suggests the plan isn't to do the standard thing and use a database, but rather to divide into a number of Excel sheets to get around the size limit ... ** Boggle **
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Preposterous beyond words 😱 :(
 
Absolutely agree with you @Northerner. The whole thing looks amateur, no IT pro I have come across would have tolerated it. I was just trying to point out that taking an amateur approach and then being surprised when it fell over was ridiculously amateur and points to fundamental problems with the PHE methods for system development. If they cocked that one up, what faith can you have in anything else put out?
 
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