Type 3c

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Duane Charles

Duane Charles

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
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As some of you are aware, and have also pointed out to me, I may have T3c and not T2. Part of my plan for this year (hopefully) is to find out for definite if I am T3c or not. Carb counting isn’t always a good way for me to know if I’m eating correctly. I’ve dusted down my scales so I can try and portion things better too.

However, it would appear that possibly my main stumbling block in my diagnosis is possibly at my GP surgery. I think I’ve mentioned that they’re T3c aware but seem to not want to carry out any tests to prove or disprove. I have looked through the main symptoms of T3c and can say that most of them are me at some point. The only thing that doesn’t seem to apply is weight loss. These are what I’ve found online:
  • Losing weight without trying to
  • Stomach pain
  • Feeling more tired than usual
  • Frequently passing wind
  • Diarrhoea or fatty or oily stools
The latter has been controlled by medication for many years and I’m sure if I stopped taking that medication it would return (I’m not going to try either). Plus I would add that they may be other symptoms too.

I’m sure that some of you that have been diagnosed as T3c have struggled to get the correct diagnosis and treatment. What and how do I convince my medical team to look at this for me? I’m sure that the bouts of acute pancreatitis all those years ago have had an effect on me and is now showing its face.

Thanks for reading and as always I’m greatly appreciative of all your replies. Happy New Year
 
Duane Charles said:
As some of you are aware, and have also pointed out to me, I may have T3c and not T2. Part of my plan for this year (hopefully) is to find out for definite if I am T3c or not. Carb counting isn’t always a good way for me to know if I’m eating correctly. I’ve dusted down my scales so I can try and portion things better too.

However, it would appear that possibly my main stumbling block in my diagnosis is possibly at my GP surgery. I think I’ve mentioned that they’re T3c aware but seem to not want to carry out any tests to prove or disprove. I have looked through the main symptoms of T3c and can say that most of them are me at some point. The only thing that doesn’t seem to apply is weight loss. These are what I’ve found online:
  • Losing weight without trying to
  • Stomach pain
  • Feeling more tired than usual
  • Frequently passing wind
  • Diarrhoea or fatty or oily stools
The latter has been controlled by medication for many years and I’m sure if I stopped taking that medication it would return (I’m not going to try either). Plus I would add that they may be other symptoms too.

I’m sure that some of you that have been diagnosed as T3c have struggled to get the correct diagnosis and treatment. What and how do I convince my medical team to look at this for me? I’m sure that the bouts of acute pancreatitis all those years ago have had an effect on me and is now showing its face.

Thanks for reading and as always I’m greatly appreciative of all your replies. Happy New Year
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I hope you find the answer somehow.
I have always been puzzled by the fact that my other half's mother had acute pancreatitis and had to have surgery about 50 years ago when she lived in Rhodesia but being of a generation and being in an era where nobody ever asked medical questions of the doctors, we never really know what was done only that she nearly died, but she never became diabetic, needed any medication, was fit as a fiddle until the last couple of years, and she lived until she was 98. She donated her body to Oxford University medical school so that will be a good teaching aid for their students.
 
Our bodies are extremely complex things and as can be seen from the example of your mother-in-law, differing diseases and infections affect everyone differently. I think from a generational point of view, we’re not afraid to ask questions anymore and a little knowledge can be useful rather than dangerous.

When I saw the DN just before Christmas, now that I’ve had time to think, I did feel intimidated when asking the questions I had. I have another appointment later this month with the same nurse for my HbA1c, I want to ask more questions but don’t know if I can. Would it be possible to ask for a referral to see a diabetes specialist at the hospital?

There’s something else I am conscious and it’s sort of subject related. If at any time you feel I’m going on and on, please tell me, I won’t be offended.
 
Hi Duane and HNY,
Many people get acute pancreatic attacks and make a complete recovery so no necrosis of cells and are fine.
Those that have a severe attack or repeated attacks symptomatic of chronic pancreatitis that seems clear you had a long time ago are often likely to have damaged their pancreas and/ or some other condition such as cancer that may have involved the full or partial removal of the pancreas are likely to initially lose majority/all the exocrine function and hence require PERT such as Creon.
It is not clear from your profile if you take this in order to keep you symptom free.
It is then that diabetes so damage to the endocrine so Beta cells can occur (Type 3c) but this can happen a very long time after your initial pancreatic damage so is possible in your case.
However a couple of things need clarifying.You were diagnosed as pre diabetic in Nov 21 and what was your Hba1c before your stated 72 in Oct 23 as if you had 3c I would have expected a sudden and dramatic change from one quarter to another so I went from normal to 120 within 3 months.
Also it is a very long time since your original AP episodes so a long gap where no diabetes symptoms were observed.
Essentially you should be able to diagnose whether you are Type 1 or 2 based on medication/ response/ clinical history etc and if you come out as T1 then you are likely to be 3c given your pancreatic history but I do think your case seems more symptomatic of T2 given your relatively gradual change in Hba1c based in the available info I can glean from your profile.
 
Wendal said:
Essentially you should be able to diagnose whether you are Type 1 or 2 based on medication/ response/ clinical history etc and if you come out as T1 then you are likely to be 3c given your pancreatic history but I do think your case seems more symptomatic of T2 given your relatively gradual change in Hba1c based in the available info I can glean from your profile
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Unfortunately I don’t have access to any information about my HbA1c readings prior to the beginning of October this year. I need to contact my surgery in the morning about access to the NHS app, which may have more information. I seem to think the jump between August and October may have been in the region of 20 (which doesn’t seem a lot).
 
Wendal said:
as if you had 3c I would have expected a sudden and dramatic change from one quarter to another so I went from normal to 120 within 3 months.
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I don't think this is the case for all Type 3c s. I believe I have read on the forum of some who have been misdiagnosed Type 2 diabetic for many years and can manage (albeit often not well managed) on oral Type 2 meds for years before they are started on insulin, so a bit like Type 1, some people come into it more gradually but for others it is a sudden deterioration.
 
rebrascora said:
I don't think this is the case for all Type 3c s. I believe I have read on the forum of some who have been misdiagnosed Type 2 diabetic for many years and can manage (albeit often not well managed) on oral Type 2 meds for years before they are started on insulin, so a bit like Type 1, some people come into it more gradually but for others it is a sudden deterioration.
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Thank you for the reply @rebrascora, I have been looking at various YouTube videos at T3c treatment rather than diagnosis. My main plan as mentioned in the main part of the thread is to find out which I have and to move forward.
 
Wendal said:
Creon.
It is not clear from your profile if you take this in order to keep you symptom free
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I did try Creon for about 6 months to try and alleviate the faecal issues I had after having my gall bladder out. Unfortunately, it didn’t help
 
Hi Barbara.Appreciate that some 3cs may do quite well on Metaformin but think that is only T2 treatment ( insulin apart) that may work due to how they work.So Duane been prescribed Alogliptin on its own ( unless he was given it in combined form with Metaformin is unlikely imo to have offered good enough control of 3c.
Anyway only sure way is to get a formal diagnosis but fact he has not been on Creon so his exocrine cells seem undamaged which again normally precedes diabetes is another consideration that may be in play.
But wish Duane well in getting a formal diagnosis as this will impact on his best way to manage the condition.
 
Wendal said:
Hi Barbara.Appreciate that some 3cs may do quite well on Metaformin but think that is only T2 treatment ( insulin apart) that may work due to how they work.So Duane been prescribed Alogliptin on its own ( unless he was given it in combined form with Metaformin is unlikely imo to have offered good enough control of 3c.
Anyway only sure way is to get a formal diagnosis but fact he has not been on Creon so his exocrine cells seem undamaged which again normally precedes diabetes is another consideration that may be in play.
But wish Duane well in getting a formal diagnosis as this will impact on his best way to manage the condition.
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The OP said he was also taking metformin.
 
Leadinglights said:
The OP said he was also taking metformin.
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I’ve been put on Metformin because I’m being treated as a T2. The Alogliptin was prescribed at the time of being told I was pre-diabetic and was also told continue the Alogliptin.
 
Leadinglights said:
The OP said he was also taking metformin.
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Yep but only from October 23.It is the medication from Nov 21 until Oct 23 that I was referring to as this is the period of control that is important in trying to assess the diagnosis.
I presume that there was relative control of the BG during that period hence my leaning towards a T2 diagnosis rather than 3c-it is possible that the Beta cells were still producing enough endogenous insulin and along with the medication was giving reasonable control but I am just trying to look at balance of probabilities.
 
I wasn’t regularly checking my BG between prescribed the Alogliptin and Metformin. In fact, once I was put on Metformin I was told there wasn’t a need to do FPS as it wouldn’t cause a hypo. I started the regular testing because of wanting to work out what was good and wasn’t good for me. I’m looking at T3c because of information given to me when I have asked questions here.

I’m sorry if this sounds rude and ungrateful but I’m just going to go with the flow from now on. No further questions from me. Thank you everyone that has helped by answering my questions and I wish you all the very best for the future.
 
I'm sorry you feel like that but I can see you are perhaps feeling overwhelmed by the various posts form people trying to understand the complexity of your situation.
Taking stock and trying to formulate some questions for your diabetic nurse of GP form the information you now have to try to persuade them to give you a better treatment plan to try to get your still high levels down would be a good idea.
Please keep in touch and let us know how you get on when you feel able.
Whatever your diagnosis, I'm sure there will be some experience here that will help you.
 
I hope you’ll keep us updated and stay around.

I think ‘going with the flow’ is a good idea. Try the medication and lifestyle change, see what happens to hba1c, and see what the medical people do to get it lower or if they decide to re-evaluate your ‘classification’.
 
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