Type 2 tiredness

[Katetype2]

Hello,

Newly diagnosed and waiting for my first telephone appointment with a diabetes nurse next week.

My weight loss mission has started in earnest and I have lost 5lb since 18th November. It’s that lovely fluid weight at the start of the diet before the hard slog of losing a pound a week begins. I’m very much hoping that they will let me have mounjaro - although I suspect they will try and push the shakes and soups on me. I don’t want to do meal replacement. I want to eat real, nourishing foods.

I’m relatively symptom-free that I can tell. But one thing I do struggle with is lethargy and concentration. I feel like I need a lot more sleep and I really do struggle to concentrate on pretty much anything these days. I’ve put this down to peri-menopause and undiagnosed inattentive ADHD. I do suffer with depression and am medicated for is - so I know that links in. But ultimately I think it must have been diabetes and poor diet all along.
I’m really hoping that weight loss and getting my blood sugars down will help me feel less tired and more focused when I need to be. Fingers crossed.

I’m aware that they don’t particularly recommend blood sugar monitoring for type 2 anymore. But I do see that a lot of people seem to do it anyway. I’m wondering if it’s worth doing - especially if I’m put on medication.
I love to be informed - but will the information be of value in the long run?

 

[goodybags]

Hi @Katetype2 its great you found the forum early on after your diagnosis,
can you remember at the point you were recently diagnosed asT2D did they tell you what your Hba1c was ? also regarding your weight loss, you say you know you will need to achieve some, hence you were wondering if Mounjaro might help if they offer it, firstly do you know what your current BMI is ?
also regarding high BS it can make you tired and feeling rotten but it will get better as many on here will tell you (because most of us on here have been there)

 

[Drummer]

@Katetype2 I found that if I used a meter, kept my intake of carbs down so I was under 8mmol/l at the 2 hours after starting to eat point, and ate at around 12 hour intervals my HbA1c went right down, my weight went down without any effort, my energy levels went up and I felt a lot better about everything.
After some years in remission I just tried using shakes, and it didn't work for me, not in the expected ways.
Since returning to my normal way of eating I feel brighter and am getting more done, and I am sure my weight is now dropping faster than when using shakes. It seems crazy that a diet which conforms to all the dieting rules just doesn't seem to work for some people, but on a low calorie diet I just slowed down. When I discovered that my HbA1cwas up I started to change back, breaking the habits of the last 2 months, and I had so much washing and sorting out of clothes to do, there as nothing in the fridge or freezer, the bed needed changing, the bathroom was a mess. I've done so much housework this month!!
I used a Spirit Healthcare Tee2+ meter. Signed up on the website, waited for an email asking me to confirm I was diagnosed as diabetic and then I could order VAT free.

 

[Alan44]

Hi @Katetype2 I have just read many of your posts and all I can see is pure determination, so well done you.
A HbA1c of 60 is by no means off the scale (I've seen a lot higher) so with the right weight, diet and exercise management you should be able to reduce that.

When I was first diagnosed I got a BG monitor just to give me an idea if what I was doing was indeed working, I only used it every other day and first thing in the morning. Over a 3 month period I saw my figures go down from 7.5 to the mid to low 5's.

My first HbA1c blood test was 51 and 3 months later it was 46 (no medication).

You do need determination, which you have in abundance, so just keep going and well done on what you have achieved so far.
Alan 😉

 

[Leadinglights]

The one of the reasons GP surgeries don't want to prescribe monitors is that if you are on medication for diabetes there would be a cost to the NHS as you would not pay for prescriptions however if you are not then you may be paying for your prescriptions anyway depending on your age and where you live.
Many do self fund because otherwise you are driving blind when it comes to trying to manage the condition. It would be a bit like driving your car without a speedometer, you do not know if you are exceeding the speed limit which is a bit like not knowing if the carbs you are eating are too much for your body to tolerate.
Inexpensive monitors can be bought on line GlucoNavii, TEE2 and Contour Blue are ones with the cheaper strips.

 

[silver minion]

If you want to use a BG monitor to monitor how your diet and activity levels affect your blood glucose levels it's important to try and keep to a regular routine. Maybe test first thing in the morning then before and 2 hours after a meal. Start with breakfast and tweak the carb content if the reading is more than 2-3 mmols higher than before the meal testing. Then try lunch meals after breakfast readings are fairly stable. Keep a note of what you eat so you know which carbs you need to cut back on. This should also help you lose weight as you are doing great so far.

It's not easy to exercise when you feel lethargic but if you can manage 2 lots of 10 minutes of activity a day it will improve. Walking, swimming, anything you enjoy. Even gardening and housework (although that's not at the top of my list). Being tired after exercise is not the same as lack of energy. You will continue to burn extra calories and hopefully feel more refreshed. As many folks on the forum have said, it's a Marathon not a sprint to get your blood glucose levels down .
Your determination will get you there. Keep us posted and celebrate your little victories along the way.

 

[trophywench]

I never considered putting the Hoover round etc as 'exercise' per se - but it IS ! 😉 Same as walking round a supermarket pushing a trolley - my body still doesn't initially know all that much about it other than indicating it needs a sit down right NOW (this and that are protesting, aching etc) - but my Libre and my BG meter tell the real story.

Yes I am 30 years older than you and No I didn't notice it so much when I was 44 it's true - but just BUT. It honestly does count.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Can you remember your HbA1c result @Katetype2 ?

Lethargy and tiredness can be associated with higher BG levels, so it may be that as you continue to work on your diabetes management and your weight and BG levels reduce you’ll hopefully feel a little more energised?

We have some members who use a ‘real food’ approach, rather than soup or shake meal replacements. Often opting for a lower carb meal BG management plan rather than a very low calorie weight loss approach.

There’s a suggestion of a low carb meal plan here:

Low-carb diet and meal plan

Eating a low-carb diet means cutting down on the amount of carbohydrates (carbs) you eat to less than 130g a day. But low-carb eating shouldn’t be no-carb eating. Some carbohydrate foods contain essential vitamins, minerals and fibre, which form an important part of a healthy diet.

www.diabetes.org.uk

 

[Katetype2]

Hi @Katetype2 its great you found the forum early on after your diagnosis,
can you remember at the point you were recently diagnosed asT2D did they tell you what your Hba1c was ? also regarding your weight loss, you say you know you will need to achieve some, hence you were wondering if Mounjaro might help if they offer it, firstly do you know what your current BMI is ?
also regarding high BS it can make you tired and feeling rotten but it will get better as many on here will tell you (because most of us on here have been there)

Thank you for the reply.
My Hba1c is 60 - which I know could be worse, but I’m definitely keen on making sure it doesn’t get worse! The BMI is… let’s just say very high. Got my call with the nurse tomorrow but have already started my weight loss mission. 6lbs off according to this morning’s weight in.

 

[Katetype2]

@Katetype2 I found that if I used a meter, kept my intake of carbs down so I was under 8mmol/l at the 2 hours after starting to eat point, and ate at around 12 hour intervals my HbA1c went right down, my weight went down without any effort, my energy levels went up and I felt a lot better about everything.
After some years in remission I just tried using shakes, and it didn't work for me, not in the expected ways.
Since returning to my normal way of eating I feel brighter and am getting more done, and I am sure my weight is now dropping faster than when using shakes. It seems crazy that a diet which conforms to all the dieting rules just doesn't seem to work for some people, but on a low calorie diet I just slowed down. When I discovered that my HbA1cwas up I started to change back, breaking the habits of the last 2 months, and I had so much washing and sorting out of clothes to do, there as nothing in the fridge or freezer, the bed needed changing, the bathroom was a mess. I've done so much housework this month!!
I used a Spirit Healthcare Tee2+ meter. Signed up on the website, waited for an email asking me to confirm I was diagnosed as diabetic and then I could order VAT free.

Thank you for the reply.
Really interesting about the shakes etc. I think I would lose weight on them for sure, but I’d be miserable doing it. But I guess I will have to see what they want me to do.
Really interesting how the blood sugar info helped you - I have seen the NHS say a number of times that it doesn’t really help type 2 people, and yet so many like yourself seem to have got a lot out of testing.

 

[Katetype2]

Hi @Katetype2 I have just read many of your posts and all I can see is pure determination, so well done you.
A HbA1c of 60 is by no means off the scale (I've seen a lot higher) so with the right weight, diet and exercise management you should be able to reduce that.

When I was first diagnosed I got a BG monitor just to give me an idea if what I was doing was indeed working, I only used it every other day and first thing in the morning. Over a 3 month period I saw my figures go down from 7.5 to the mid to low 5's.

My first HbA1c blood test was 51 and 3 months later it was 46 (no medication).

You do need determination, which you have in abundance, so just keep going and well done on what you have achieved so far.
Alan 😉

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I’m certainly determined - the consequences of letting things get worse are too scary.
Interesting to see how the testing helps people despite the official advice. It’s definitely helping me weigh up my options.

 

[Katetype2]

The one of the reasons GP surgeries don't want to prescribe monitors is that if you are on medication for diabetes there would be a cost to the NHS as you would not pay for prescriptions however if you are not then you may be paying for your prescriptions anyway depending on your age and where you live.
Many do self fund because otherwise you are driving blind when it comes to trying to manage the condition. It would be a bit like driving your car without a speedometer, you do not know if you are exceeding the speed limit which is a bit like not knowing if the carbs you are eating are too much for your body to tolerate.
Inexpensive monitors can be bought on line GlucoNavii, TEE2 and Contour Blue are ones with the cheaper strips.

Thank you for the reply.
Yes - driving blind is how I feel. I like an abundance of information and feel it could possibly be useful for me. I’m going to see what I am advised/prescribed and weigh up my options.

 

[Katetype2]

If you want to use a BG monitor to monitor how your diet and activity levels affect your blood glucose levels it's important to try and keep to a regular routine. Maybe test first thing in the morning then before and 2 hours after a meal. Start with breakfast and tweak the carb content if the reading is more than 2-3 mmols higher than before the meal testing. Then try lunch meals after breakfast readings are fairly stable. Keep a note of what you eat so you know which carbs you need to cut back on. This should also help you lose weight as you are doing great so far.

It's not easy to exercise when you feel lethargic but if you can manage 2 lots of 10 minutes of activity a day it will improve. Walking, swimming, anything you enjoy. Even gardening and housework (although that's not at the top of my list). Being tired after exercise is not the same as lack of energy. You will continue to burn extra calories and hopefully feel more refreshed. As many folks on the forum have said, it's a Marathon not a sprint to get your blood glucose levels down .
Your determination will get you there. Keep us posted and celebrate your little victories along the way.

Thank you for the reply. Yes, I will certainly look at a regular routine if I decide to test - makes sense.
I will definitely keep posting. 6lbs off as of this morning - so pleased with that for a start.

 

[Katetype2]

I never considered putting the Hoover round etc as 'exercise' per se - but it IS ! 😉 Same as walking round a supermarket pushing a trolley - my body still doesn't initially know all that much about it other than indicating it needs a sit down right NOW (this and that are protesting, aching etc) - but my Libre and my BG meter tell the real story.

Yes I am 30 years older than you and No I didn't notice it so much when I was 44 it's true - but just BUT. It honestly does count.

Thank you for the reply. I’m definitely trying to move more - some days are easier than others, but I shall persevere 🙂

 

[Katetype2]

Can you remember your HbA1c result @Katetype2 ?

Lethargy and tiredness can be associated with higher BG levels, so it may be that as you continue to work on your diabetes management and your weight and BG levels reduce you’ll hopefully feel a little more energised?

We have some members who use a ‘real food’ approach, rather than soup or shake meal replacements. Often opting for a lower carb meal BG management plan rather than a very low calorie weight loss approach.

There’s a suggestion of a low carb meal plan here:

Low-carb diet and meal plan

Eating a low-carb diet means cutting down on the amount of carbohydrates (carbs) you eat to less than 130g a day. But low-carb eating shouldn’t be no-carb eating. Some carbohydrate foods contain essential vitamins, minerals and fibre, which form an important part of a healthy diet.

www.diabetes.org.uk

Thank you for the reply.
My Hba1c is 60 - So although not great, I know it could be worse and I can definitely do something about it. Thank you for the useful link.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

Thank you for the reply.
My Hba1c is 60 - So although not great, I know it could be worse and I can definitely do something about it. Thank you for the useful link.

Hope it’s helpful 🙂

Lots of members here really value the Freshwell Project too, which is an initiative from a large GP surgery.

Freshwell Low Carb Project - Home

lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk

 

[goodybags]

Thank you for the reply.
My Hba1c is 60 - which I know could be worse, but I’m definitely keen on making sure it doesn’t get worse! The BMI is… let’s just say very high. Got my call with the nurse tomorrow but have already started my weight loss mission. 6lbs off according to this morning’s weight in.

Hi again @Katetype2 it looks like you’ve been given some really great advice by quite a few different people
most of us have probably been through what your going through, I’m sure you will soon get things under control,

one more suggestion if you can (before your phone call with your DSN) think it’s tomorrow jot down the questions you have for him/her, and things you want to talk about

 

[Drummer]

Thank you for the reply.
Really interesting about the shakes etc. I think I would lose weight on them for sure, but I’d be miserable doing it. But I guess I will have to see what they want me to do.
Really interesting how the blood sugar info helped you - I have seen the NHS say a number of times that it doesn’t really help type 2 people, and yet so many like yourself seem to have got a lot out of testing.

Oh I certainly lost some weight, but it elevated my HbA1c - I did the shakes in the months before my test just to see what the test would show. It was just coincidental that I needed to go back to see the nurse and she asked me to step on the scales whilst I was there, and then we were both surprised.
I did not find it difficult to be on a low calories diet - I think because I went into it from ketosis on low carb, it just was not all that beneficial in the ways expected.
I suspect that milk and carbs in powder form are not the best way for me to consume carbs - normally I don't have sugars at all. on a regular basis - when I make a berry jelly it might last a few days, but it would be well over a week before I have more.
I think that the 'trial' the NHS use to deny us testing equipment and supplies was a situation where the information from the testing could not be acted upon, so the situation is entirely different from the way type 2's are using testing for their benefit.

 

[Katetype2]

Oh I certainly lost some weight, but it elevated my HbA1c - I did the shakes in the months before my test just to see what the test would show. It was just coincidental that I needed to go back to see the nurse and she asked me to step on the scales whilst I was there, and then we were both surprised.
I did not find it difficult to be on a low calories diet - I think because I went into it from ketosis on low carb, it just was not all that beneficial in the ways expected.
I suspect that milk and carbs in powder form are not the best way for me to consume carbs - normally I don't have sugars at all. on a regular basis - when I make a berry jelly it might last a few days, but it would be well over a week before I have more.
I think that the 'trial' the NHS use to deny us testing equipment and supplies was a situation where the information from the testing could not be acted upon, so the situation is entirely different from the way type 2's are using testing for their benefit.

Thank you for this - really appreciate you sharing. It’s pretty much as I thought - a very artificial way to get your nutrition in. I looked the occasional low sugar protein shake - they can be handy if you don’t feel like breakfast or if you need to get a bit more protein in. But to rely on that for 3 months - just seems too harsh for me. I’m a classic over-eater. Big, big appetite. I’d rather adjust my palate and reduce my portions with real food.
Thankfully, the nurse this morning was happy to give me the choice - which I’m delighted about.

 

[Drummer]

Thank you for this - really appreciate you sharing. It’s pretty much as I thought - a very artificial way to get your nutrition in. I looked the occasional low sugar protein shake - they can be handy if you don’t feel like breakfast or if you need to get a bit more protein in. But to rely on that for 3 months - just seems too harsh for me. I’m a classic over-eater. Big, big appetite. I’d rather adjust my palate and reduce my portions with real food.
Thankfully, the nurse this morning was happy to give me the choice - which I’m delighted about.

Oh good - we do hear about some HCPs who really should be invading Russia rather than handing out health advice.
My nurses were happy enough with my HbA1c level, but having got so close to normal numbers to flip back into actual diabetic range is not going to do at all.
If you chose low carb options then portions are not that significant.
I get the frozen stir fries from Lidl, and the mixed veges without sweetcorn, and was having 1/4 of a bag when on the low calorie diet - I had one small meal a day, but now I am trying to get back to 'normal' and had to work up to 1/3rd - but even half a bag is still really low carb paired with some meat. The stir fries are bags of 750gm. I get the two lower carb content versions, not the mexican, but even that is because of the taste rather than just it being a tad higher in carbs.