Triglycerides

Daxsmith9

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
My cholesterol is great HDL at 1.1 and LDL at 1.0 TC is OK
BUT my triglycerides are too high 3.0 (Fasting should be below 2.3).
How do i lower them? Keto is impossible due to another condition. IF have done in the past but only achieved goal on 7 occasions.
Stopped meat (dec 2023 if not b4), smoking (over 2.5yrs ago) and a dangerous medication 1.5yrs ago).
Have over 20 medical conditions.
Psoriasis needs steroid. Venlafaxine & Risperidone.
On Rosuvastatin cut to 5mg due to other med causing issues.
My main and 1st medical condition causes ALL the others (incl T2D) and often causes CVD (as does T2D & Psoriasis).
 
My cholesterol is great HDL at 1.1 and LDL at 1.0 TC is OK
BUT my triglycerides are too high 3.0 (Fasting should be below 2.3).
How do i lower them? Keto is impossible due to another condition. IF have done in the past but only achieved goal on 7 occasions.
Stopped meat (dec 2023 if not b4), smoking (over 2.5yrs ago) and a dangerous medication 1.5yrs ago).
Have over 20 medical conditions.
Psoriasis needs steroid. Venlafaxine & Risperidone.
On Rosuvastatin cut to 5mg due to other med causing issues.
My main and 1st medical condition causes ALL the others (incl T2D) and often causes CVD (as does T2D & Psoriasis).
There's really nobody here who can give you good advice on this, unfortunately - really need to speak with yr doc or preferrably a specialist, particularly as you're obviously a "complicated" case.

So completely FWIW:

First thing IMO is to get good advice on how much of a risk trigs at 3.0 represent, for you (not for random people giving their personal anecdotes here or elsewhere). Page 2 of the NHS lipid guidance talks specifically about trigs:

The first trig-specific worry-level in the UK guidance is 4.5 mmol/l. Whether that is an appropriate worry-level for you, only yr medical providers can say.

But since you're below that, probably the most important lipid risk metric is non-HDL-C which I guess for you would be 2.5 mmol/l (LDL=C + 0.5 x trigs, or TC - HDL-C; ignore people talking about "ratios"). This is about the target in UK terms for secondary CVD prevention (same ref link). Personally as somebody in a secondary situation I think that is way high but I doubt any practitioner is going to be too worried about it if you don't have existing CVD, and assuming there isn't some special consideration.

If trigs are something you do need to worry about, the first idea might be to look at yr existing meds and the steroids would be an easy target, I guess. Then lifestyle factors, then possibly new medication. I guess you would not be eager to increase your medication load, but fwiw the NHS guidance talks about icosapent ethyl. Fenofibrate is also a comon option. However I doubt that your trigs levels are high enough for anybody to rush for their prescription pads, but as always, it depends on your circumstances and your providers' higher-than-random-Internet-schmo medical knowledge.
 
There's really nobody here who can give you good advice on this, unfortunately - really need to speak with yr doc or preferrably a specialist, particularly as you're obviously a "complicated" case.

So completely FWIW:

First thing IMO is to get good advice on how much of a risk trigs at 3.0 represent, for you (not for random people giving their personal anecdotes here or elsewhere). Page 2 of the NHS lipid guidance talks specifically about trigs:

The first trig-specific worry-level in the UK guidance is 4.5 mmol/l. Whether that is an appropriate worry-level for you, only yr medical providers can say.

But since you're below that, probably the most important lipid risk metric is non-HDL-C which from the same link I guess for you would be 2.5 mmol/l (LDL=C + 0.5 x trigs, or TC - HDL-C; ignore people talking about "ratios"). This is about the target in UK terms for secondary CVD prevention (same ref link). Personally as somebody in a secondary situation I think that is way high but I doubt any practitioner is going to be too worried about it if you don't have existing CVD, and assuming there isn't some special consideration.

If trigs are something you do need to worry about, the first idea might be to look at yr existing meds and the steroids would be an easy target, I guess. Then lifestyle factors, then possibly new medication. I guess you would not be eager to increase your medication load, but fwiw the NHS guidance talks about icosapent ethyl. Fenofibrate is also a comon option. However I doubt that your trigs levels are high enough for anybody to rush for their prescription pads, but as always, it depends on your circumstances and your providers' higher-than-random-Internet-schmo medical knowledge.
The NHS target level is stated as 2.3 for non fasting and 1.7 for fasting. Not sure where you got those figures.
 
The NHS target level is stated as 2.3 for non fasting and 1.7 for fasting. Not sure where you got those figures.
I see that stated in public-facing documentation but when I go to the professional guidance (as in the link I gave) I don't see anything which calls out trigs specifically as distinct from their non-HDL-C or TC contributiton, when levels are less than 4.5 mmol/l.

Similarly for the NICE lipid guidance, incporporated in the updated NHS guidance I linked: https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng...easurement-and-referral-for-specialist-review

But like I say, the issue of whether 3.0 mmol/l is too high & needs work is a question for somebody with actual qualifications.
 
According to experts tigs are worse than LDL but I have to ask for the test specifically. Unsure why!!
Trigs are the main cause as they apparently alter the size of the LDL (unsure how they do that).
 
My chlorestorol is fine but my triglycerides are high 28, this due to a low carb but higher fat food regime. Cant have it both ways
Apprently green tea supposed to help
 
My chlorestorol is fine but my triglycerides are high 28, this due to a low carb but higher fat food regime. Cant have it both ways
Apprently green tea supposed to help
Looking at all those medications you are taking to try to manage your blood glucose levels and it still remains high and you are getting many complications you may be better on insulin. What have you got against it.
 
I have certain views and not here to upset anyone, but if don't take my medicine for a few days then my blood sugars will rise, ifdon't take my insulin, well not good at all.

My sugars are at last now being controlled and if anything I am now suffering hypos.

Triglycerides are high but it is expected due to my diet, not blood sugars.
 
I have certain views and not here to upset anyone, but if don't take my medicine for a few days then my blood sugars will rise, ifdon't take my insulin, well not good at all.

My sugars are at last now being controlled and if anything I am now suffering hypos.

Triglycerides are high but it is expected due to my diet, not blood sugars.
Many of the Indian spices can reduce triglycerides.
 
I use butter fir my bread and scrambled eggs. My wife used ghee or claified butter for the curries, cauliflower etc.
I eat a lot of nuts as snacks so Walnuts almonds cashews and peanuts too.

I eat full fat cheddar cheese, full fat cream cheese and full fat Greek yogurt, try to keep off processed foods so always looking for something organic or less stuff added.
 
My Triglycerides plummeted when I went low carb and high fat. One reason the can be high is due to overeating. But with diabetics it’s part of the broken metabolism.
 
Oh no and yes that makes sense. I think for me it will going to the gym that will make the difference and of course cutting back on too mnay fats.

Also I am on 80mg atorvastatin, love to get this down to 40mg, Cholesterol is not what they tell you and is not all as harmful as stated.
 
According to experts tigs are worse than LDL but I have to ask for the test specifically. Unsure why!!
Trigs are the main cause as they apparently alter the size of the LDL (unsure how they do that).
A standard lipid panel (blood test for cholesterol) measures three things - the amounts of triglycerides (fat), cholesterol, and the HDL cholesterol particles in the blood. The LDL figure is calculated by the machine in the lab based on these three measurements. LDL is not measured directly by the standard lipid panel blood test.

In the hours after eating the triglyceride in the blood can either be fat coming from the intestine while digestion is underway, or fat that has come from the liver. In the fasted state the triglyceride figure is largely representative of the portion that comes from the liver.

The liver pumps out fat into the blood in the form of VLDL particles, which are little blobs of triglyceride wrapped in cholesterol and proteins. These travel around the body delivering fat to fuel the body or for storage elsewhere and get smaller and smaller as they do so. There are various names for the sizes of these shrinking VLDL particles but the last and smallest stage is an LDL particle - LDL cholesterol. At this stage most of the triglyceride has been depleted and the particle had more cholesterol on it than triglyceride inside it. The triglyceride result on the blood test measures all the triglyceride in the blood and does not directly measure the different sizes of particle or how many of those particles there are. A small number of large particles will look identical on that test to a large number of small ones. Small is bad - more particles banging around in arteries crashing into the artery walls.

If you want the gold standard test you'd need an Apolipoprotein B (Apo B) test which basically counts the 'bad' particles rather than measuring the amount of triglyceride and cholesterol in the blood. Unfortunately that test is difficult to access at this time - the only way I could get one here in Ireland is to get it privately through a heart health screening service which includes a package of blood tests, and which costs €495. I won't be doing that. If you want to dig deep on how it all works this page has links to three video interviews with lipidologist Dr Thomas Dayspring, in which he explains how all the particles and tests work along with a load of other stuff like how a statin works - Link. It's six and a half hours of interviews - not everyone's cup of tea but you will learn a lot if you're interested.

I know hardly anything about the causes of high triglycerides except for one circumstance - how I came to have high trigs myself. When I was diagnosed this time last year my triglyceride result was 9.11 mmol/L (epic!). From reading pretty much everything written by Prof Roy Taylor on the subject of Type 2 remission and watching several interviews with him since then (I think this one is the most informative - Link) I would summarise one of his theories as follows:

- If a person puts on too much weight their adipose tissue (fat cells) may become less receptive to taking in more triglyceride from the blood for storage. Taylor calls this the 'Personal Fat Threshold'.
- As adipose tissue becomes less receptive to storing fat then the fat that the liver is pumping out has less places to go. Levels of fat in the liver rise as a result.
- As the liver becomes more and more full of fat it 'tries harder and harder' to pump it out - more VLDL particles in the blood - higher triglycerides.
- A high concentration of triglycerides in the blood increases the rate at which this fat is deposited in other tissues in the body, including the pancreas. In those who are genetically susceptible this ectopic fat causes lipid toxicity in pancreatic beta cells, leading to cell dedifferentiation. Translation: in some people, fat stored inside the cells that produce insulin poisons them and 'switches them off'.
- Over time the effects of lipid toxicity appear to become permanent in most people.

I believe Taylor when he says that a fatty liver is the root cause of Type 2 diabetes (in most people at least) and that elevated triglycerides are the main mechanism by which is gets progressively worse over time.

Losing a lot of weight probably 'empties out' fat cells, probably making them more receptive to taking in triglycerides from the blood, probably enabling the liver to resume exporting fat effectively, probably bringing fat levels in the liver down and probably lowering triglycerides. This probably greatly reduces the rate at which fat is deposited in the pancreas, allowing cells to burn it off over time, and enabling a portion of the beta cells in the pancreas to 'switch back on' and start producing insulin again. This is probably the mechanism by which big weight loss can lead to T2 diabetes remission. From 9.11 mmol/L last October my trigs dropped to 1.6 in January having lost 12Kg, 1.2 in June having lost 33Kg or so, and 1.0 last month at the same level of weight loss. My statin was reduced in that time and I'm on no other meds which might affect triglycerides. I'm still on meds so I can't tell yet whether I'm in true remission territory. What I can say with certainty is that in my case weight loss and exercise brought down my triglycerides. I'm eating more fat today as a proportion of my diet today than I was in January. Experiments with CGMs show I can safely eat quite a bit more carbs in a meal today, after having my Metformin halved from 2000mg to 1000mg daily, than I could in January. It appears that I got some insulin response back some time after I got my triglyceride levels down.

With all that said, your case may well be entirely different to mine. I have no idea how your combination of other illnesses and medications impact on your triglyceride levels. I would suggest though that if you are in a position to lose weight and are able to do so it might be a good idea. Not a bad idea at least. It might also be a good idea to discuss the issue with a doctor who is aware of the current science on Type 2 and grasps the high probability that triglycerides are the primary mechanism by which Type 2 diabetes gets progressively worse over time. My GP doesn't know that. My diabetes specialist nurse didn't know that last time I spoke to her. My diabetologist... shortly after I was diagnosed I had a quick referral as there seemed to be a lack of certainty about what type of diabetes I had (long story). He asked if I knew what caused my diabetes. I answered - 'Visceral fat, in and around the liver and pancreas, probably'. 'Probably is right!' was his response, and he left it there.

I didn't know the word 'ectopic' at that time and I now know that visceral fat, which is fat inside the abdominal wall, which is largely adipose tissue, is an indicator of the problem of a fatty liver and Type 2 diabetes, an indicator that adipose tissue under the skin has become less receptive to storing more fat, but is not the direct cause. The cause is ectopic fat specifically - fat stored in cells that aren't meant to be storing so much fat, a thing that some people are very sensitive to. At this time the science makes all the details I laid out above look very probable but not so well proven that all the doctors in all the lands have received and believed the news just yet, or so it would seem. I will say this though - I have zero faith in my GP at this time when it comes to the issue of cholesterol and triglycerides. The man still goes on about ratios. He tried to refer me to a f*^king pathologist in the early days to figure out why my triglyceride levels were so high. Hasn't the slightest clue how all this works. I believed Roy Taylor, got the weight loss done fast, saw my trigs drop to lovely healthy levels, and I'll be taking one word on my blood test results extremely seriously for the rest of my life. 'Triglycerides'.
 
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My Dr. missed my T2D and I found it myself after an experts advice (A politician not a Dr,). My file already mentioned the HbA1c level 2yrs before. She also said I didn't have epilepsy despite fitting the diagnosis and having my first fit at 3-4mths old and being prescribed an anti-epileptic previously (stopped due to MA -B12 deficiency).
 
A standard lipid panel (blood test for cholesterol) measures three things - the amounts of triglycerides (fat), cholesterol, and the HDL cholesterol particles in the blood. The LDL figure is calculated by the machine in the lab based on these three measurements. LDL is not measured directly by the standard lipid panel blood test.

In the hours after eating the triglyceride in the blood can either be fat coming from the intestine while digestion is underway, or fat that has come from the liver. In the fasted state the triglyceride figure is largely representative of the portion that comes from the liver.

The liver pumps out fat into the blood in the form of VLDL particles, which are little blobs of triglyceride wrapped in cholesterol and proteins. These travel around the body delivering fat to fuel the body or for storage elsewhere and get smaller and smaller as they do so. There are various names for the sizes of these shrinking VLDL particles but the last and smallest stage is an LDL particle - LDL cholesterol. At this stage most of the triglyceride has been depleted and the particle had more cholesterol on it than triglyceride inside it. The triglyceride result on the blood test measures all the triglyceride in the blood and does not directly measure the different sizes of particle or how many of those particles there are. A small number of large particles will look identical on that test to a large number of small ones. Small is bad - more particles banging around in arteries crashing into the artery walls.

If you want the gold standard test you'd need an Apolipoprotein B (Apo B) test which basically counts the 'bad' particles rather than measuring the amount of triglyceride and cholesterol in the blood. Unfortunately that test is difficult to access at this time - the only way I could get one here in Ireland is to get it privately through a heart health screening service which includes a package of blood tests, and which costs €495. I won't be doing that. If you want to dig deep on how it all works this page has links to three video interviews with lipidologist Dr Thomas Dayspring, in which he explains how all the particles and tests work along with a load of other stuff like how a statin works - Link. It's six and a half hours of interviews - not everyone's cup of tea but you will learn a lot if you're interested.

I know hardly anything about the causes of high triglycerides except for one circumstance - how I came to have high trigs myself. When I was diagnosed this time last year my triglyceride result was 9.11 mmol/L (epic!). From reading pretty much everything written by Prof Roy Taylor on the subject of Type 2 remission and watching several interviews with him since then (I think this one is the most informative - Link) I would summarise one of his theories as follows:

- If a person puts on too much weight their adipose tissue (fat cells) may become less receptive to taking in more triglyceride from the blood for storage. Taylor calls this the 'Personal Fat Threshold'.
- As adipose tissue becomes less receptive to storing fat then the fat that the liver is pumping out has less places to go. Levels of fat in the liver rise as a result.
- As the liver becomes more and more full of fat it 'tries harder and harder' to pump it out - more VLDL particles in the blood - higher triglycerides.
- A high concentration of triglycerides in the blood increases the rate at which this fat is deposited in other tissues in the body, including the pancreas. In those who are genetically susceptible this ectopic fat causes lipid toxicity in pancreatic beta cells, leading to cell dedifferentiation. Translation: in some people, fat stored inside the cells that produce insulin poisons them and 'switches them off'.
- Over time the effects of lipid toxicity appear to become permanent in most people.

I believe Taylor when he says that a fatty liver is the root cause of Type 2 diabetes (in most people at least) and that elevated triglycerides are the main mechanism by which is gets progressively worse over time.

Losing a lot of weight probably 'empties out' fat cells, probably making them more receptive to taking in triglycerides from the blood, probably enabling the liver to resume exporting fat effectively, probably bringing fat levels in the liver down and probably lowering triglycerides. This probably greatly reduces the rate at which fat is deposited in the pancreas, allowing cells to burn it off over time, and enabling a portion of the beta cells in the pancreas to 'switch back on' and start producing insulin again. This is probably the mechanism by which big weight loss can lead to T2 diabetes remission. From 9.11 mmol/L last October my trigs dropped to 1.6 in January having lost 12Kg, 1.2 in June having lost 33Kg or so, and 1.0 last month at the same level of weight loss. My statin was reduced in that time and I'm on no other meds which might affect triglycerides. I'm still on meds so I can't tell yet whether I'm in true remission territory. What I can say with certainty is that in my case weight loss and exercise brought down my triglycerides. I'm eating more fat today as a proportion of my diet today than I was in January. Experiments with CGMs show I can safely eat quite a bit more carbs in a meal today, after having my Metformin halved from 2000mg to 1000mg daily, than I could in January. It appears that I got some insulin response back some time after I got my triglyceride levels down.

With all that said, your case may well be entirely different to mine. I have no idea how your combination of other illnesses and medications impact on your triglyceride levels. I would suggest though that if you are in a position to lose weight and are able to do so it might be a good idea. Not a bad idea at least. It might also be a good idea to discuss the issue with a doctor who is aware of the current science on Type 2 and grasps the high probability that triglycerides are the primary mechanism by which Type 2 diabetes gets progressively worse over time. My GP doesn't know that. My diabetes specialist nurse didn't know that last time I spoke to her. My diabetologist... shortly after I was diagnosed I had a quick referral as there seemed to be a lack of certainty about what type of diabetes I had (long story). He asked if I knew what caused my diabetes. I answered - 'Visceral fat, in and around the liver and pancreas, probably'. 'Probably is right!' was his response, and he left it there.

I didn't know the word 'ectopic' at that time and I now know that visceral fat, which is fat inside the abdominal wall, which is largely adipose tissue, is an indicator of the problem of a fatty liver and Type 2 diabetes, an indicator that adipose tissue under the skin has become less receptive to storing more fat, but is not the direct cause. The cause is ectopic fat specifically - fat stored in cells that aren't meant to be storing so much fat, a thing that some people are very sensitive to. At this time the science makes all the details I laid out above look very probable but not so well proven that all the doctors in all the lands have received and believed the news just yet, or so it would seem. I will say this though - I have zero faith in my GP at this time when it comes to the issue of cholesterol and triglycerides. The man still goes on about ratios. He tried to refer me to a f*^king pathologist in the early days to figure out why my triglyceride levels were so high. Hasn't the slightest clue how all this works. I believed Roy Taylor, got the weight loss done fast, saw my trigs drop to lovely healthy levels, and I'll be taking one word on my blood test results extremely seriously for the rest of my life. 'Triglycerides'.
Very comprehensive, thank you.

I am losing weight and know to get my triglycerides right down I need to go to the gym.

Some interesting research here, I know fatb on liver test are a key indicator but they are not done at all.

Cholesterol is not all bad for you, as it is made out, our bodies need to produce Chlorestorol, I am on Atorvastatin 80mg, which I want to halve eventually

Eating low carbs is not the solution for Diabetes, there are so many factors to consider and also so many conditions.

I am really glad that you have nearly regressed your adiabtes that is a fantastic achievement, well done!
 
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