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the army

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I'd like to get the feeling of what the general concensus is here regarding diabetes and the army. I for one reckon that it can be done. So what I want to know is how many others reckon that it can be done?

I personally would like to go to Sandhurst and train to be an officer. I'd like people's opinions.

Tom H
 
Unfortunately, "general consensus" is too vague. The current situation is that no-one with diabetes can start training, either as officer or soldier. Those already trained who develop diabetes can remain in service, under restrictions of where they can serve, so callled "medically downgraded". As most who develop diabetes as fit young adults need insulin, this is the main type to consider. Plus, service in some different regiments and corps might be easier with diabetes than others. I served as a TA Nursing Officer for 4 years in early 1990s (before diagnosis), and can honestly say that nothing I did while serving would be impossible with diabetes - in fact, I am probably still a lot fitter and better at map reading and field craft, in particular than most of my former colleagues (during my 2 week junior officers course, with 2 male doctors, 1 male dentist and 6 other female nursing officers, I was the only one able to map read in the dark, so got virtually no sleep during a 48 hour exercise as instructors always got me to map read on night patrols and to literally tuck my female colleagues into their bashas!) In general, I reckon officer service might be easier to manage with diabetes than service in the ranks, although there are usually more applicants than officer-training places, so more difficult from that point of view to achieve a change. In terms of units, I reckon that medical units (QARANC, RAMC, RADC and RAVC) would be the first corps to try, followed by Royal Signals, REME, RLC, RMP, some trades of RE, ground trades of AAC, then Royal Artillry, then cavalry and finally, infantry. However, Royal Navy ships might be more suitable, although the traditional approach of the senior service might be even harder to overcome. RAF is often seen as the most progressive of the services eg integrating women and men, so also worth considering - particularly medical and technical / engineering / communication branches.

Not sure that an American soldier who managed to break his pump soon after starting his tour of duty in Iraq helps the cause! It's important to distinguish that most insulin users in the UK don't use pumps, and that UK forces tours of duty are usually 6 months, rather than 12 for US forces.
 
well my thoughts are that it is wrong to exclude a diabetic from any part of the armed forces. if it is kept under control why shouldnt we be able to do our bit for queen and country? i am an ex forces and i know for a fact that most well controlled diabetics would be able to cope with life in the army. as for uk forces doing a 6 month tour it is true you are sent for 6 months but more often than not your tour is extended till a relief regiment ( regiment to take over duties) can be trained up on certain skills needed to replace regiment already out in country. us soldiers are sent packing after between 9 and 11 months. they never serve a full tour of 12 now. hasnt happened since vietnam. if i had the chance now to be able to go back in to the army i would jump at the chance, but as i would only ever want to serve in my old regiment even with what your planning it wouldnt happen for me. i think we as diabetics shouldnt be restricted to what service and regiments we are allowed into. if you can do it then why shouldnt you be allowed to? i understand that they think we will all keel over and die due to diabetes, but in this day and age when we are being told we can be anything we want why is it that some institutions are still acting like dinosaurs? whitehall needs to wake up and smell the coffee. you could make all the right adjustments to ration packs etc that would be needed for diabetics also with carb counting you could get away with current ration packs if you wanted (i would want them to sort them out personally cos as i remember they are nasty unless laced with tones of tabasco sauce). well thats my take on this folks lol
 
Hi Mike,

My sentiments exactly, we don't just keel over and die because of diabetes. Things have come on so much in the past ten years as people like Copepod and myself have seen. I recall you saying that you were a para. I think that diabetics could serve as airborne soldiers but in the support element, i.e. Signals and gunners. As for the rat packs, well, the ones that I have eaten very recently on cadet exercises were quite good. Tobasco is only needed in the case of the corned beef hash! Though one to avoid is the tuna and pasta option which, as I found out at my expense, is not very friendly to the stomach when combined with tobasco. You can quite easily adapt the meals in them. When I did my Duke of Edingburgh's expedition in the summer I used 24 hr packs. The carb values are very similar to the commercially available ones so I just based my doses on them and the previous expeditions that I had done. The only thing that was slightly troublesome was the fact that I was getting too much Levemir. Other than that, I encountered no problems.

Tom H
 
i agree with most of what your saying tom, but i dont think that diabetics should not be given the chance to be front line troops. when i was in i would have gladly had a diabetic besides me, so long as he was competent at his job.
 
I see where you're coming from Mike. I have a diabetic friend and I was his platoon commander for my most recent field day that we did through CCF. I was totally comfortable with having him there as I knew he would look after himself and I was there to look after him if anything untoward happened. I thik you're right that if someone can handle themselves to the best of their abilities and their team trust them to do that and know what to do if something goes wrong I don't see why we couldn't be front line troops. Personally I would to to the Rifles/Paras if I could go into the infantry.
If anything were to come of my correspondance with my MP do you think that asking to join the TA would be a good thing for when I go to uni provided that I do suceed?

Tom H
 
try UOTC

Although I served in the TA as Nursing Officer, while undertaking my first degree, the more usual approach is for students to join UOTC (University Officer Training Corps). I have just looked up medical restrictions for UOTC - and diabetes is NOT on the list of immediate barriers or disqualifications of medical grounds for UOTC - see http://www.army.mod.uk/UOTC/7209.aspx. So that might be a way in? UOTC training times fit in better with university terms / work loads than TA, although I always managed, sometimes by doing an attachment to a military hospital (twice) or going with another unit (several members of my unit went to Farnborough Air Show with a nearby Field Ambulance unit), instead of going on my unit annual camp, and I often went on training weekends during Christmas, Easter and summer breaks. Might be worth a call to London UOTC, which includes students from Brighton - see http://www.army.mod.uk/UOTC/5682.aspx
 
Yeah UOTC might well be a way in. Though I do think that the TA would be a better yard stick of my abilities than UOTC would be. I'm definitely going to give it a crack when the time comes though. Copepod, what to you think of Mike's thoughts about diabtics serving as front line infantry? I reckon artillery would be more appropriate seeing as the way that they are now employed is to carry out their traditional role and to carry out some roles normally done by the infantry.

Tom H
 
Hi Tom
I can't really comment about infantry service, or artillery for that matter, as I never came into contact, except with a few injured servicemen and fathers of newborn babies in a maternity unit. I spent 3 days interpretting for a visiting Spanish engineer officer, planning an exchange visit with a Royal Engineers unit. However, Mike has experienced life in the Parachure Regiment, so he knows what he's talking about. Even within infantry, there is a huge range of roles - airborne, light, armoured, ceremonial / guards etc.
But, I would also look at Royal Navy and RAF to see if there is any similar push for people with diabetes to serve there, as shared experiences might be useful, even if you're not considering those services.
 
Tom, have you looked into what the 'pilots with diabetes' people have to do? I know it's a different matter, but there might be some pointers in what they have to provide that could help support your case that diabetics can be highly responsible and physically capable people.
 
Hi Northerner,

I haven't thought about that. Could you give me a few pointers about where to begin? Diabetics are more than capable of doing everything that a non diabetic person can do. Take a look at this nutcase/man with a point to prove:

http://runningwithdiabetes.com/

Tom H
 
i have looked at the pilots with diabetes site and it is full of good info, but is aimed at people who were pilots before diagnosis. tom the idea of the army oneday letting us so called inferior people in to be able to serve our country is one that i am very happy to support and i would be happy to lend my voice to it. i have looked into a few things myself and it seems that only in the british army are squadies kicked out (termed medically discharged) due to being unfit to continue duties. i have seen the us soldier who did a tour in iraq and think he did a very good job, but its to little in the bigger scheme of things. the government needs to be made aware that diabetics are not second class humans and we, when fit and and in good health, have the same endurance as a regular squadie, if not some of us would be fitter. Also we should be looking for duk to help in this matter.
 
I think that's my next move sorted then Mike. I'll get onto DUK and give bring them up to speed on what I want to do and do everything to get them on board backing myself and other diabetics who wish to do this up.

Tom H
 
when fit and and in good health, have the same endurance as a regular squadie,
Click to expand...
I sympathise, I try to do everything I can to show that diabetes won't stop me .. However, I also see it from the other side.
A type 1 needs access to insulin, test strips and needles etc
This has to be a potential problem. Even people in so called support services have to be able to go anywhere. As an engineering officer in the RAF my OH went to the Falklands and Belize . His colleagues have served in the Gulf, Bosnia and Afghanistan
During the Falklands conflict , people from all branches, had to evacuate ships very quickly,(after they were hit). There would not have been the time to make sure that that an individual had enough diabetic supplies for an indefinite period. There are many scenarios where being type 1 might be adding an extra risk.
When someone has been in the services for some time and has had an expensive training or developed a specialism, it makes economic sense, to allow them to continue if they develop medical problems. One of our friends remained in even though he had lost his legs. Another (quite senior officer) became very overweight ,unfit and developed type 2. He was discharged but then re employed on the same job as a civilian. On the other hand another friend was discharged with a benign brain tumour. However,when selecting recruits they surely have to look for people with the least risk.
 
Hi Northerner,

The paper I mentioned earlier was about Finland where they do conscript but allow diabetics in provided that they meet requirements.

HelenM,

I understand what you are pointing out but due to advances in technology over the past decade I can now quite happily carry around a month's worth of insulin and test strips in my bag alongside a laptop, work and various other things. I know from my cadet experiences that you can adapt the kit to fit your requirements. For me on the last few exercises all that meant was an extra pouch on my webbing rig to accomodate my insulin pens, blood machine, some hypo treatment, a glucagon jab. I still had room and was able to cram some food into that pouch aswell. In the other pouches you'd find the rest of my food, more hypo treatment, another glucagon jab, mess tins, a water bottle and magzines for my rifle. There was still some room to spare. It is quite easy to carry a decent amount of diabetes related things. For example, when I'm at school I carry about 12 days worth of insulin in the same pocket as my blood machine. I carry one pen, about a dozen needles for my pen, lancets for my finger pricker, test strips for at least a week and hypo treatment. This fits very easily into my suit and is all very concealable. You wouldn't know it was there unless you had a look through my pockets.

Tom H
 
Obviously I think anyone should be allowed in the army, dispite any condition such as Diabetes. There is one thing I still don't understand since I watched that video you posted. He had to keep going to the medic and was injected with those big needles. How did he get to the medics all the time, aren't they ever left without them?

And what happens if he keeps going low during fighting? That guy kept going high, but it could be the oposite for someone else.
 
From what I recall is that he took a supply of diabetic needles with him but he ran out. He would have been confined to a base I presume. Mike, any thoughts on that? The lows are what the army are scared of but what I need to prove is that we aren't low all day every day. We don't just keel over without very good reason.

Tom H
 
Northerner,

Cheers for the link, I've taken a look. It seems very good and all common sense really. SAme principles could be applied in what I seek to do perhaps?

Tom H
 
hi tom, yeah my thoughts would have been he was confined to base as he would have to have been closely monitored due to the fact he would have been a test study and if anything went drastically wrong and he had been brought back in a sack then the u.s army would have been for the high jump. unfortunately he wasnt a very good test case in my eyes due to the fact he was on a pump and not on injections. now if all forces applicants had to be on an insulin pump before being considered then maybe pct's would have to re think their criteria for funding so it is al going to take time. it is all politics right now and it is a dirty game to play, but dont get down tom and keep fighting the fight. i'm sure i speak for most on here when i say we are right behind you.
 
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