"T2s shouldn't do finger prick tests"

[Vonny]

Well it was my weigh in this morning and I'm now stuck for the 3rd week running despite walking an average of 4.5 miles per day (at 4mph) and having max 1200 calories every day. (@Peeny will sympathise with me!) I suspect it's following the reduction in metformin when I hit 37 Hba1c in early September. Up until then I'd been losing 1.5 - 3lbs a week.

In desperation I got a phone appt with the DN and asked to go back up to 3 metformin a day. All I can say is I got very short shrift! DN pointed out I could have a hypo if I went back to higher dose which I'll be honest never occurred to me as hypos have never been an issue.
Also, I've noticed that despite eating the same things, my BG is showing a tad higher this week but when I mentioned this to the DN she said I shouldn't be doing tests, as T2s were tested solely on their Hba1c and finger prick testing was to be discouraged!

I was going to tag this on the end of @Peeny's post, but decided to create a new thread as I'm interested in what other people think to the idea that T2s shouldn't test. Frankly, I don't know what I'd have done without my monitor.

 

[Annemarie]

I was told the same thing when it was thought I had type 2, I didn’t I had type 1. It’s your diabetes, I think you should feel in control, follow advice from your Nurse etc but also listen to your instincts - it could be your body talking to you

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Also, I've noticed that despite eating the same things, my BG is showing a tad higher this week but when I mentioned this to the DN she said I shouldn't be doing tests, as T2s were tested solely on their Hba1c and finger prick testing was to be discouraged!

I doubt there's any support for "to be discouraged". I don't see any in the usual summary, anyway. But advantages (beyond 12 months) look like they aren't visible in trials. (My hunch is very much that self monitoring is something that people who want to use it should be encouraged and supported to do, but that maybe encouraging people who aren't interested wouldn't be valuable. But I doubt there's any actual support for that.)

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD005060.pub3/full

 

[silentsquirrel]

Difficult to express what I think without needing to be edited by the mods!!

But briefly, your money, your diabetes, your choice!

 

[Toucan]

Well, all I can say is that I don't think I would ever have achieved control, and continued to control my diabetes without my meter.

I have heard it said that they are discouraged because people can over-react to varying results, so I guess they always need to be used as a guide, bearing in mind their known inaccuracies - But this is a matter of providing some good guidance on there use. Articles like test-review-adjust can provide this.

Coming back to the weight loss plateau @Vonny, I know it's hard but please try not to let it through you off plan. It has happened to me several times. What effects the scales can be complex and sometimes it can take a while for results to show through. The main thing is you are leading a much healthier lifestyle.
Have you tried taking a waist measurement lately? Sometimes it shows up there before it shows on the scales.

 

[grovesy]

Metformin is not classed as a drug that causes hypo's, if it were you should have been issued with a meter. Not being on hypo causing drugs was used as justification for removing my repeat during lockdown via letter from surgery(was only issued 50 a month anyway). I am on Metformin and Aliogliptin, I used to but on Gliclazide which is know to cause hypos.
Metformin is supposed to help with weight loss but I never found it that helpful or the appetite suppression either.
As others have said testing it up to you and if you can afford.
I personally have self funded some test strips for years and now self fund a Freestyle Libre.

 

[Vonny]

Well, all I can say is that I don't think I would ever have achieved control, and continued to control my diabetes without my meter.

I have heard it said that they are discouraged because people can over-react to varying results, so I guess they always need to be used as a guide, bearing in mind their known inaccuracies - But this is a matter of providing some good guidance on there use. Articles like test-review-adjust can provide this.

Coming back to the weight loss plateau @Vonny, I know it's hard but please try not to let it through you off plan. It has happened to me several times. What effects the scales can be complex and sometimes it can take a while for results to show through. The main thing is you are leading a much healthier lifestyle.
Have you tried taking a waist measurement lately? Sometimes it shows up there before it shows on the scales.

Thanks @Toucan I am trying hard not to be discouraged by the plateau. I managed to drag myself out for a depressed walk this afternoon, and made sure I took my ipod so I can hit >4mph (tendency to drop down to 3.5mph if I haven't got Deff Leppard, The Offspring et al to keep me trucking!)

On the plus side, my jeans are held up by a belt and I'm now up to the 6th notch so I know my tum has got smaller. I think I'm now so desperate to get to that healthy BMI mark that these last 9lb seem to be taking an age.

Thanks for the encouragement, and to everyone for supporting me in my use of the BG monitor. You are right @Anitram, it's the only way to keep me informed between Hbac1 checks.

 

[grovesy]

Some people seem to find as they get nearer there goal that it slows down.
I personally did not aim to get normal BMI as I did not think it was achievable. Having said this I got there anyway without stressing about.

 

[Bloden]

Keep going @Vonny. It sounds like you’re doing really well.

 

[Annemarie]

Metformin can certainly cause weight loss, one of it’s common effects is diarrhoea

 

[Nick Cliff]

Hi @Vonny
Meter
About 4 years ago my GP said it was not necessary for me to do finger-prick tests any more as my Type 2 was stable on diet and exercise and I was being monitored via twice-yearly HbA1c checks. So my prescription for the test strips and lanclets was removed. The cynic in me wondered if my reaching the age of free prescriptions had anything to do with this clinical decision! To be fair, I had been stable for several years and the GP is good and treats you like a person capable of making their own decisions, and couldn't argue with her. In fact it was a release. So my testing tailed off as I ran out of supplies.

Fast forward a couple of years and I started getting higher HbA1c readings (see my signature / profile) and started on Metformin... but also revived my testing. My testing now shows that my BG levels have come back down - though Covid has prevented that being confirmed yet (or otherwise) by HbA1c.

My conclusion is that I had gradually let my diet and exercise regime slip, but I would have picked up on that had I been doing regular testing, or even sporadic testing. So for me, using the finger-prick test meter is definitely worth it. From frequent tests while bringing myself back on track, I am now down to doing tests every 6 or 8 days (so not always the same day) - one fasting, then one before evening meal and one 2 hrs after completing that meal.

As someone else has said, the meter is a great tool for the sort of person who wants to monitor themselves. So if that is you, then use the meter.

Metformin
I got nowhere with Metformin because it basically stopped my guts working. I did lose weight as a consequence, from 58Kg to 54Kg... if I'd lost much more I wouldn't be writing this! GP said it started as a slimming drug, so no surprise to her that I'd lost weight. Both my parents had taken it and not had that problem. However, as my finger-prick results were showing me coming back to my old "normal", she was OK for me to stop Metformin and see how things went with my continued monitoring... I was due to have HbA1c in April - but Covid delayed this until last week - result pending..

Sorry - this is a bit of a ramble - Metformin gets zillions of posts on the forum - pro and anti - so it's hard to advise - rather like with diabetes itself, we all seem to be different...

Hope this may have helped you. Good luck! Nick.

 

[Vonny]

Thanks @Nick Cliff, and hope your Hba1c results are ok 🙂

 

[SB2015]

Also, I've noticed that despite eating the same things, my BG is showing a tad higher this week but when I mentioned this to the DN she said I shouldn't be doing tests, as T2s were tested solely on their Hba1c and finger prick testing was to be discouraged!

I find this a disappointing approach from a DN. I have questioned this before with a Desmond trainer where similar advice was given. I was told that ‘if T2s tested they would obsess about their levels, but not be able to do anything to change them’. I nearly exploded!!

As others have said it is unlikely that you can get funding for test strips from a GP, but many on here have found that by testing they are able to find which foods impact their glucose levels and then been able to adjust the carbs and or portion sizes, and improved their HbA1c and in some cases come off medication.

 

[grovesy]

Metformin can certainly cause weight loss, one of it’s common effects is diarrhoea

I know it can but I was saying for me it was not that much of a help.

 

[trophywench]

Ah well!!! There is some history in what the Desmond trainer said because the trial which Oxford Uni published the results of is responsible for that attitude. A lot of T2s were randomly allocated to the meter or no meter group. They were told NOT to change anything about what they ate, what activity they did, just carry on doing everything you're doing right now, whatever the meter says. Many of them said OK and complied, but the majority couldn't see the point in bothering to test, after the novelty had worn off. OCD people (cos they hadn't been filtered out beforehand) became more OCD about testing plus others who'd displayed no outward sign of their latent OCD tendency previously, joined their merry band. Others became depressed - they could see with their own eyes their BG was increasing - but they weren't supposed to do anything about it, would depress anybody. Don't need to have a flippin degree in psychology to conclude THAT.

We were flippin fuming about it at the time over at DSF - but wasn't anything whatever we could do - we didn't have as many useful connections with diabetologists as has been built up over the ensuing years.

 

[Browser]

Hi @Vonny
Meter
About 4 years ago my GP said it was not necessary for me to do finger-prick tests any more as my Type 2 was stable on diet and exercise and I was being monitored via twice-yearly HbA1c checks. So my prescription for the test strips and lanclets was removed. The cynic in me wondered if my reaching the age of free prescriptions had anything to do with this clinical decision! To be fair, I had been stable for several years and the GP is good and treats you like a person capable of making their own decisions, and couldn't argue with her. In fact it was a release. So my testing tailed off as I ran out of supplies.

Fast forward a couple of years and I started getting higher HbA1c readings (see my signature / profile) and started on Metformin... but also revived my testing. My testing now shows that my BG levels have come back down - though Covid has prevented that being confirmed yet (or otherwise) by HbA1c.

My conclusion is that I had gradually let my diet and exercise regime slip, but I would have picked up on that had I been doing regular testing, or even sporadic testing. So for me, using the finger-prick test meter is definitely worth it. From frequent tests while bringing myself back on track, I am now down to doing tests every 6 or 8 days (so not always the same day) - one fasting, then one before evening meal and one 2 hrs after completing that meal.

As someone else has said, the meter is a great tool for the sort of person who wants to monitor themselves. So if that is you, then use the meter.

Metformin
I got nowhere with Metformin because it basically stopped my guts working. I did lose weight as a consequence, from 58Kg to 54Kg... if I'd lost much more I wouldn't be writing this! GP said it started as a slimming drug, so no surprise to her that I'd lost weight. Both my parents had taken it and not had that problem. However, as my finger-prick results were showing me coming back to my old "normal", she was OK for me to stop Metformin and see how things went with my continued monitoring... I was due to have HbA1c in April - but Covid delayed this until last week - result pending..

Sorry - this is a bit of a ramble - Metformin gets zillions of posts on the forum - pro and anti - so it's hard to advise - rather like with diabetes itself, we all seem to be different...

Hope this may have helped you. Good luck! Nick.

I think that towing the HCP party line is unprofessional, based on blinkered ignorance and economic considerations. Like you, I consider self testing an essential means of staying on track and maintaining a disciplined approach to my condition. I am sure that, if I did not test regularly, I would drift back into poor eating habits with only an annual kick up the backside to bring me back to the nitty gritty.

 

[Ditto]

Your last nine pounds? Wow, well done. It will slow down then won't it, if that's all you've got left to lose. Don't stress, just keep going. I wouldn't worry about BMI, s'rubbish, just for insurance purposes.

 

[mikeydt1]

it all ways saddens me when i see nurses or doctors acting like this, sometimes their acts can be down right dangerous.

i was put in a life death situation all because doctors kept telling me things were in my head. it got so crazy they even sent me to mental services and all the time i had an organ rotting inside me!

in the end all it took was a 10 minute ultrasound and it showed my gall bladder was up the spout and when they operated off course it had gone rotten and then needed further surgery.

without a test metre there is no way of telling if diabetes is under control or if there are issues going on and not just that many are been classed as t2 without appropriate testing. to be told people are type 2 without testing and been issued medications is just down right crazy. would you use a plaster for a headache? guess not.

 

[Ralph-YK]

Also, I've noticed that despite eating the same things, my BG is showing a tad higher this week but when I mentioned this to the DN she said I shouldn't be doing tests, as T2s were tested solely on their Hba1c and finger prick testing was to be discouraged!

We are. It's dismissed out of hand. Despite at one point the possibility of self testing was allowed for in the Nice quidelines (though not very strongly).

what other people think to the idea that T2s shouldn't test.

Complete nonsense. Self testing is exactly what we should be doing. Of course, there is the issue of not getting the info or support to do this from HCP, and having to go against them to manage our diabetes. Which is demotivating, and makes people less likely to use the info provided by self testing.

 

[Sharron1]

I was also told not to finger prick by the GP. Had carpel tunnel release undertaken privately and the consultant was horrified when i mentioned being told not to finger prick. I have always tested myself and kept a food diary. I couldn't see any reason why not, i want as few surprises as possible at Hba1c time. Also, what foods are ok etc.