So what happens when....

[Autumn2020]

So I was wondering (and can't quite find the answer online) what actually happens when you have a spike ??

Let's say you went out and eat a whole pizza (which I'm not planning on doing, but just wanted to understand this whole thing fully) So you go out, eat a pizza, your BG spikes, what does it actually do there and then? What are the effects of this happening? Or is it more about the long term?

Xx

 

[Docb]

Just supposing that your blood glucose level is nice and steady and then you have the pizza. That's a big wedge of carbohydrate and this will get converted to glucose and get absorbed into your bloodstream. Your blood glucose level will increase until your pancreas starts to produce the insulin which will allow your body to remove the glucose from your blood and bring your glucose back down to the level it was before.

This leaves the obvious questions. How fast will your blood glucose go up, how high will it go and how fast will it come down. As usual, the answers to these questions are.... it all depends.

The faster your gut is working, the faster it will rise. The faster your pancreas is working, the faster it comes down. I'm no expert but the picture I have is that for a normal person, with a starting glucose of 4 or 5 you would expect the pizza to push that up fairly gently over an hour or so by 3 or 4 and then for it to fall over then next hour or so to somewhere near where it started from.

If your pancreas is sluggish, or for some reason the insulin is not working well (that is, you have diabetes) then the rise in blood glucose from eating your pizza is larger and it takes longer to get back to a "normal" level. That's what I think of as a spike.

The problem to my mind is the long term, not the short term. Eat one pizza and get a spike is not really a problem but eat another before your system has processed the first, then you get a bigger spike because you are starting from a higher base. Throw in a couple of cappuccinos and a lump of fairy cake, and then a carb heavy breakfast followed by more pizza for lunch and you get to the position where your system can't cope and your blood glucose never comes down. Your average blood glucose is high, your HbA1c is high and you are stacking up problems for the future.

So my take is that the odd sudden BG increase up to low teens before falling back is a spike and they are going to happen until you get a handle on what things affect you personally. Eliminate the spikes by sorting your menus and you will get your average blood glucose down and that will help to guard against long term problems.

I think that makes sense.

 

[Autumn2020]

Thank you so much for explaining.

So let's say you had a treat (like a takeaway pizza) once every other month, but the rest of the time you controlled what you eat and kept your BG steady, that wouldn't cause any harm.

 

[Kaylz]

Thank you so much for explaining.

So let's say you had a treat (like a takeaway pizza) once every other month, but the rest of the time you controlled what you eat and kept your BG steady, that wouldn't cause any harm.

I wouldn't say that, things out with your control can still cause complications, I've had very good control since I was diagnosed but have had 2 eye related complications, the first less than a month into my diagnosis and the 2nd less than 2 years in so I'm afraid complications can still arise no matter how much you take care of yourself xx

 

[Autumn2020]

I just feel so confused with it all. I hear people saying they still eat out from time to time and that they still have the odd takeaway as a treat ect then others saying absolutely not, i just don't know which is which. I feel so angry with myself for being in this position. X

 

[Kaylz]

I wouldn't say its a no, no, just pointing out that not everyone with complications have brought them on themselves by neglecting their condition and that they still happen no matter how much care you take xx

 

[Autumn2020]

Thank you for explaining. Just feeling fed up with it all and cant imagine worrying like this for the rest of my life. X

 

[Kaylz]

If it's a worry then you could always try making low carb pizzas etc, there isn't many things that can't be adapted to suit a low carb lifestyle xx

 

[Autumn2020]

I'm not worried about pizza lol

Just the constant thinking about what I am going to eat, worried sick about complications. Ect ect just cant get my head around this being forever x

 

[Kaylz]

I didn't mean specifically pizza, I meant the whole food aspect, us on insulin have to think about what we're going to eat, weigh our portions out, work out how much insulin we need for the food then possibly change that decision based on the level of your BG when we test

I freak out every time I have an eye check up at the hospital and am even more concerned at the moment as my appointment for April got cancelled so I have no idea how I'm doing but you've just got to keep going, I try to think positively even though I've been dealt a c**p hand since I was diagnosed, you haven't and are doing really well so I wouldn't spend to much time worrying about it if I were you
xx

 

[trophywench]

This is why you need to test your own BG before and after eating, until you have built up a proper picture of that your body can cope with and what it can't. Nobody can actually tell you Ohhh, you can eat as many jam doughnuts as you want to, won't hurt you, cos my mate Algernon regularly eats them and he has no problem. Well bully for Algie. You are NOT him and you do not have his body nor he yours. Every single one of us, unsurprisingly has a different body to anyone else, so our tolerances for this that and the other are individual.
dreadful.

When my BG spikes very high, I have a hot flush and feel absolutely dreadful. In the long term - who knows what damage it will cause? I only know that it will if I don't limit that to a very rare event.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Throw in a couple of cappuccinos and a lump of fairy cake

Actually I think cappuccinos are probably fine. (If you add sugar or syrups or similar then maybe that's a different story, but I think 10-15g in the milk is typical, and that seems fine to me.) I'm also not sure that fairy cake is that bad, though obviously it would depend, and these things are cumulative.

 

[Madeline]

It makes me feel so c**p that I don’t find it worth it tbh. Hot flushes like Jenny, crushing fatigue, faintness, and the THIRST. And the peeing. Might as well swallow a hosepipe.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. Type 2 you might be lucky and get into remission, but you’ll always have to be aware of what you eat. I find it easier now I’ve accepted that this is it, but it really did mess with my head for quite a while, and I suspect we all pretty much felt similar. I’ve already got neuropathy so I’m also quite paranoid about my feet.

 

[silentsquirrel]

Thank you so much for explaining.

So let's say you had a treat (like a takeaway pizza) once every other month, but the rest of the time you controlled what you eat and kept your BG steady, that wouldn't cause any harm.

It would be great if we could definitely say this or that won't cause any harm - but we can't. Nobody has a crystal ball.

Short term: some people feel dreadful when bgs are high; sick, sleepy, sluggish. Others feel OK and would not know they were high unless they test.

Long term: risks of complications are likely to be greater the higher your bgs, the more frequently this happens. But we cannot say for sure what any one person's individual risk is. Just as no one can say that going to the shops or pubs at the moment is 100% safe.

You will eventually work out what you are comfortable with, your meter will tell you what usually works fine for you, and you will decide how often and how much you want to go 'off piste' by eating the pizza, cake, whatever that maybe won't give good results.

For me, a major excursion off piste is risky, as above a certain level, I find carbs very addictive. One occasion of excessive carbs is likely to lead to more over the next few days, and it can be a couple of weeks before I get back on track.

 

[Madeline]

I also find that if I go high I also start craving carbs.

 

[rebrascora]

You really have to find a way of eating that works for you. This is for the rest of your life and no one is saying that you can't have a treat occasionally, but it needs to be just that and it is all too easy for that once every couple of months pizza to turn into once a month and then once a fortnight, or you add in other treats in between. If you are the sort of person who is very disciplined and can stick to that "occasional" treat then that may be fine for you. Alternatively, find a takeaway option which is low carb.... ie a kebab (chicken or donner) with salad and garlic mayonnaise but no pitta or chips or I have char sui or duck with ginger and spring onion and a portion of stir fried veg or mushrooms from the Chinese. I may have a dessert spoon of my partners rice to soak up the juice.
You may not feel unwell from the actual spike. I can usually feel it once it hits 10 these days and my legs feel a bit heavy and if I am sedentary, I want to sleep. Higher than that and I get a hot flush. For me coming back down is not pleasant either if it is a mid teens spike. It is not a big deal in the scheme of things but regular spikes can increase the risk of complications and as a Type 2 diabetic it may lead to more insulin resistance.... again, once every 2 months is not a big deal, but then you have birthday treats and other people's birthdays and Christmas and before you know it, treats become a regular occurrence.

I'm like @Madeline and @silentsquirrel in that I follow a low carb way of eating and if I have a carb heavy meal it really sets the craving off and I struggle for a couple of days afterwards trying to get back on track. I hate that feeling of constantly wanting more, so I would rather find low carb options for my treats.

 

[Autumn2020]

Thank you for your replies xx

 

[Sally71]

Basically it is high blood sugar which causes all the long term complications such as blindness and feet needing to be amputated etc. So the less time you can spend with high blood sugar, the lower your chance of getting complications. An occasional spike isn’t going to hurt you. But what constitutes “occasional” probably varies from person to person, and how disciplined you are in between those treats will make a difference too. Once the complications start setting in, you might be able to stop them getting worse by changing your habits, but you can’t reverse the damage already done. It's your life, yes it's tricky and difficult and boring having to be strict with your diet all the time, and nobody is saying that you don’t deserve a treat once in a while, but only you can decide how much you want to risk your future health. Sorry that sounds really depressing!

 

[Docb]

@Autumn2020, don't beat yourself up! What you have got to do is to get a perspective on things which suits you and your way of doing things. It's still early days for you and I'm guessing you are still at the stage of gathering information on how different things affect your BG. I'd focus on getting that info together and then start thinking (not worrying) about how you are going to use it when you have got it.

Can I plant another idea? I worry a little when I see people talking about food in the terms of treats. It's an idea put in peoples minds by years of very clever advertising usually to increase the sales of stuff of dubious nutritional value. If you think about it as fuel (and get your treats elsewhere) then it might be a way of sorting things out in your mind.

Finally @ColinUK, I had a cappuccino which gave me a horrendous spike but I think that was due to the "chocolate" sprinkles which I suspect was mostly sugar and contained very little chocolate.

 

[Autumn2020]

Thank you. If I'm honest I'm just really struggling.

I lost my best friend last week, aged 34. The day she found out she had 3 months to live, i found out I had diabetes, her 3 months turned into 9 days and I just feel lost in the tangle of emotions, guilt, anger, heartbreak. I have emotionally eat my entire life and at a time like this I would usually turn to food so I am just struggling with how to now deal with things.

Sorry for the rant, I know this site is about diabetes and not for therapy. Thank you all for your replies, trying to take it all on board xxx