School-leavers could join NHS via apprenticeships in plan to fix staff shortages

[Northerner]

School-leavers could receive on-the-job training as part of an attempt to help address NHS workforce shortages, under plans to allow tens of thousands of doctors and nurses to join the health service via apprenticeships.

Up to one in 10 doctors and a third of nurses could be trained through this vocational path in the coming years under the NHS workforce plan, the PA news agency reported. The NHS’s doctor apprenticeship scheme is due to start in September, where medics in training will be able to earn money while they study.

The concept was first introduced as an alternative route into medicine circumventing the standard undergraduate or graduate university programmes.

School-leavers could join NHS via apprenticeships in plan to fix staff shortages

Up to one in 10 doctors and a third of nurses could be trained through vocational path under NHS workforce plan

www.theguardian.com

Hmmm.... 😱

 

[nonethewiser]

Surely knowledge comes first before vocational training, to fit both in from onset could be quite demanding in pressured role as dr or nurse.

 

[bulkbiker]

The problem that I can see it that as there appears to be a postcode lottery of the quality of care patients receive that this will simply be exacerbated by the good doctor/bad doctor teachers..

 

[Leadinglights]

You mean going back to what it was 55 years ago. Not sure that will be to the benefit of patients.
I find it hard to be too critical of the medical profession having a daughter and son in law who are both doctors and I know how hard they work now and have worked b....y hard to get to where they are now.
I can say things are actually better with hospital appointment since Covid, my OH had an appointment with the consultant at 9.10am and he was there for 10 mins and out by 9.09 whereas before there could easily have been a 3 hour wait.
I hadn't even finished the shopping.

 

[Rob Oldfield]

Information has just leaked on how the entrance exams are going to be structured.....

Seriously, what a lunatic idea. First up, who are they suggesting is going to be doing the training and supervision of these people?

 

[Docb]

Isn't that the way nurses used to be trained....before somebody decided to offload the training costs onto individuals as student debt by inventing the idea of nurses having to have a degree?

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Up to one in 10 doctors and a third of nurses could be trained through this vocational path in the coming years under the NHS workforce plan, the PA news agency reported. The NHS’s doctor apprenticeship scheme is due to start in September, where medics in training will be able to earn money while they study.

So they can avoid building up lots of dept while training and eventually gain qualifications which won't be accepted outside the UK.

 

[Northerner]

eriously, what a lunatic idea. First up, who are they suggesting is going to be doing the training and supervision of these people?

That was my second thought. First one was that, in my experience of friends who were doing medicine and dentistry when I was at Uni, they had a huge amount to study and very high pass criteria at each stage. I don't see how you could possibly do that 'on the job' in the same amount of time.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I don't see how you could possibly do that 'on the job' in the same amount of time.

I can't imagine they'll try and do it in the same amount of time, will they?

 

[mikeyB]

As someone who has been through a medical education, I can judge whether a doctor can be trained on the job like a normal apprentice. Well, I can tell you that I learned more about treatment after I had qualified with three degrees: BSc, MB, ChB. I had never seen any case of measles, chicken pox or mumps during my education. Or fifth disease.

As long as you know anatomy, including the path of nerves and blood vessels in the body, and the easiest way to diagnose appendicitis, and can read an ECG and can interpret the sounds of heart valve disease and the normal chest sounds, you are 95% able to pass as a doctor. The other 5% is in obstetrics, and the ability to repair an episiotomy.

 

[Eddy Edson]

WTF????

 

[Bruce Stephens]

WTF????

Which is a good summary of the reaction on twitter

 

[Gwynn]

@mikeyB : Surely the best, and real, learning comes from 'dealing' with patients in the real world, not just books and qualifications (important as they are) as every patient, and their rection to meds, diagnoses, shock, confusion, will be different.

 

[trophywench]

Bit like learning to drive then - my instructor said to me as he dropped me home after me passing my test - OK Jenny - good luck learning to drive then! - because he'd always insisted he couldn't teach anyone to drive, only to pass their driving test.

 

[Dragonheart]

Isn't that the way nurses used to be trained....before somebody decided to offload the training costs onto individuals as student debt by inventing the idea of nurses having to have a degree?

True. And to an extent I agree. But then the tech, the depth of knowledge, the science is so much different than it was 50 yrs ago. Add to that the issues of who will educate and supervise these trainees on the wards, how consistent will that be, how will it be assessed and paid for? I agree more practical time would be beneficial but it can’t be the answer alone for nurses and even more so for drs.

 

[Leadinglights]

The issue with school leavers is they have little experience of life, likely have never encountered people who are seriously unwell let alone near to death which those involved in health care do, so the shock for them would be/ huge. They have only been used to learning just enough to pass the exam and sadly my daughter has found that to be true with the medical students she supervises.

 

[Dragonheart]

The issue with school leavers is they have little experience of life, likely have never encountered people who are seriously unwell let alone near to death which those involved in health care do, so the shock for them would be/ huge. They have only been used to learning just enough to pass the exam and sadly my daughter has found that to be true with the medical students she supervises.

Is that any different whichever method is used? young people go from school to sixth form to uni doing their medical courses and don’t have life experience either. Same directly into apprenticeships. I had a medical student in my appt this week. He looked like a child (I know. I’m getting old)