Sausage Analysis

[falcon123]

Hi, I originally posted this under my German Sausage thread so some of you may have missed it. This article was published about sausages in the Daily Mail yesterday:-


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...-sausages.html


Staggering low little meat there is in some of them! Top five seem the best for low CHO as ~90% meat. Similar fat in all though.

 

[Caroline]

The page wasn't available when I tried the link, but never mind, I'll have another look later.

We do our sausgaes in the oven and I tip the fat out as they cook. I hate to think how much fat I'd be left with if I fried them...

 

[falcon123]

Sorry, Windows seems to have corrupted the link. This should work (fingers crossed):-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ew-study-identifies-worst-value-sausages.html

 

[NiVZ]

Hello,

The links get corrupted on the forum if you copy one thats been truncated due to the length of it (ie when you see the '....' in the middle of the link because it copies it as text, keeping the '....' as part of the URL link)

The best way to copy links from one post is to right click on the link and choose "Copy Shortcut" and then paste that where you want it.

NiVZ

 

[falcon123]

The second attemted worked when I went back in

 

[Caroline]

Thanks, it's kind of worrying, but if you think about the British Diet, it is quite stodgy and unhealthy anyway.

 

[Northerner]

Thanks, it's kind of worrying, but if you think about the British Diet, it is quite stodgy and unhealthy anyway.

I was just looking at the display of special offers at my local co-op with my 'diabetic eye': suasage rolls, pork pies, pat?, pasties, pizzas and sausages! Soooooo much fat!!!!😱

 

[Caroline]

If you gave someone a dish of lard or margarine or butter and said eatt hat , they'd feel sick, but when it is disguised as something else, people don't realis or choose to igmore how much fat there is.

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Whats Wrong With Fat?

Hi, guys,

Everyone on this thread thinks that fat is bad for us. Can you tell me how you came to believe this? I have done searches on the Internet and cannot find any scientific study that shows saturated fat is bad - can you point me to some? I can find a number that show fat is not bad and I even posted one here that showed heart disease risk factors are reduced on a high fat diet but as far as I can tell it was ignored! If you consider what happens to excess carbs - they are converted to saturated fat and stored. Also; we as a species have been eating fat for millions of years. Every new cell in our body that is created requires fat and cholesterol in order to build the cell membrane. Fat is also completely neutral as far as raising blood sugar is concerned. Saturated fat should be more aptly named Stable fat and the other two mono unstable and poly unstable fat Only saturated fat is resistant to oxidisation the other two can oxidise (go rancid) and form reactive oxygen species - very bad for us. Even the establishment is coming round to the belief that poly unstable fat promotes cancer.

Regards Dodger

 

[cazscot]

I was just looking at the display of special offers at my local co-op with my 'diabetic eye': suasage rolls, pork pies, pat?, pasties, pizzas and sausages! Soooooo much fat!!!!😱

I can almost feel my arteries clogging at the though of all that fat and to think up until a few months ago I would not have a second thought about shoving it all in my mouth 😱

 

[karinagal]

Hi, guys,

Everyone on this thread thinks that fat is bad for us. Can you tell me how you came to believe this? I have done searches on the Internet and cannot find any scientific study that shows saturated fat is bad - can you point me to some? I can find a number that show fat is not bad and I even posted one here that showed heart disease risk factors are reduced on a high fat diet but as far as I can tell it was ignored! If you consider what happens to excess carbs - they are converted to saturated fat and stored. Also; we as a species have been eating fat for milions of years. Every new cell in our body that is created requires fat and cholesterol in order to build the cell membrane. Fat is also completely neutral as far as raising blood sugar is concerned. Saturated fat should be more aptly named Stable fat and the other two mono unstable and poly unstable fat Only saturated fat is resistant to oxidisation the other two can oxidise (go rancid) and form reactive oxygen species - very bad for us.

Regards Dodger

I'm no expert Dodger, but is it not the case that too much saturated fat is the problem? We all need a certain amount of fat in our diet, just as we need carbohydrates in our diet as well. I'm not sure about your theory re carbohydrate turning into saturated fat... I thought it was more that unused glucose can be turned into body fat? As I say, I'm not an expert..

Karina

 

[C*5_Dodger]

I'm no expert Dodger, but is it not the case that too much saturated fat is the problem? We all need a certain amount of fat in our diet, just as we need carbohydrates in our diet as well. I'm not sure about your theory re carbohydrate turning into saturated fat... I thought it was more that unused glucose can be turned into body fat? As I say, I'm not an expert..

Karina

Dear Karina,

My diet consists of 60 - 70% fat by energy content and has done for more than 12 years, yet my main heart disease risk factors triglycerides and HDL are excellent (LDL is not a good predictor of heart disease) . We do not need carbohydrate in our diet. When our body stores fat why would it store it in unstable form - the notion is crazy. You are correct, unused glucose is turned into body fat - saturated body fat!

Warmest Regards Dodger

 

[C*5_Dodger]

I can almost feel my arteries clogging at the though of all that fat and to think up until a few months ago I would not have a second thought about shoving it all in my mouth 😱

Dear cazcot,

I'm afraid you have got the mechanism of blocked arteries wrong. It is not a simple process of depositing fat on the endothelium it is much more complex than that! If it were a simple deposition process why do veins never become blocked, after all they are subjected to the same fat-laden blood as arteries.

Warmest Regards Dodger

 

[Einstein]

Hmmmm me becoming happier and happier I'm not allowed to eat sausages! 😱

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Hmmmm me becoming happier and happier I'm not allowed to eat sausages! 😱

Dear Einstein,

Why is it that you are not allowed to eat sausages? I buy the most expensive and lowest carb ones I can find. There are some, which my daughter purchased from Tesco, that only have 0.5g of carbs per 100g - absolutely delicious.

Warmest Regards Dodger

 

[Peter C]

Hi, guys,

Everyone on this thread thinks that fat is bad for us. Can you tell me how you came to believe this? I have done searches on the Internet and cannot find any scientific study that shows saturated fat is bad - can you point me to some?

Yup,
here's a few scientific studies raising concerns about saturated fats, perhaps the most convincing is the Cochrane analysis ( the Cochrane analyses are the best thing since sliced bread in the field of medical research, they assess all the research in a particular filed without fear or favour or influence from anyone)...if a Cochrane review of the evidence says sat fats are bad for you , its a wrap.

http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD002137/frame.html

Cochrane conclusion based on the meta analysis of 27 studies in the area ...
"Cutting down or changing the fat we eat may reduce our risk of heart disease
Cutting down how much fat we eat or replacing some saturated (animal) fats by plant oils and unsaturated spreads may reduce risk of heart disease, probably including fatal heart disease. Heart disease includes heart attacks, chest pain, strokes and the need for heart surgery. This change in how we eat seems to protect us better if we stick to it for at least two years. People who already have heart disease, and those who do not have heart disease, benefit in the same way."

Have a gander at Kromhout et al ...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=cedff4a716e2b316d39d812fa5fb01dd

"Strong positive associations were observed between 25-year death rates from coronary heart disease and average intake of the four major saturated fatty acids, lauric, myristic, palmitic, and stearic acid (r > 0.8, P < 0.001);"

or this one...
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/6/1001


And of course it is not just cvd, research is also showing associations between raised intake of saturated fats and breast cancer, prostrate cancer and lower intestine cancer.

HTH

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Thanks but the "studies" you quote don't really help

Yup,
here's a few scientific studies raising concerns about saturated fats, perhaps the most convincing is the Cochrane analysis ( the Cochrane analyses are the best thing since sliced bread in the field of medical research, they assess all the research in a particular filed without fear or favour or influence from anyone)...if a Cochrane review of the evidence says sat fats are bad for you , its a wrap.

http://mrw.interscience.wiley.com/cochrane/clsysrev/articles/CD002137/frame.html

Cochrane conclusion based on the meta analysis of 27 studies in the area ...
"Cutting down or changing the fat we eat may reduce our risk of heart disease
Cutting down how much fat we eat or replacing some saturated (animal) fats by plant oils and unsaturated spreads may reduce risk of heart disease, probably including fatal heart disease. Heart disease includes heart attacks, chest pain, strokes and the need for heart surgery. This change in how we eat seems to protect us better if we stick to it for at least two years. People who already have heart disease, and those who do not have heart disease, benefit in the same way."

Have a gander at Kromhout et al ...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=cedff4a716e2b316d39d812fa5fb01dd

"Strong positive associations were observed between 25-year death rates from coronary heart disease and average intake of the four major saturated fatty acids, lauric, myristic, palmitic, and stearic acid (r > 0.8, P < 0.001);"

or this one...
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/6/1001


And of course it is not just cvd, research is also showing associations between raised intake of saturated fats and breast cancer, prostrate cancer and lower intestine cancer.

HTH

Dear Peter,

Many thanks for your efforts but as you can see the data you provided does not help much.

Warmest Regards Dodger

Reduced or modified dietary fat for preventing cardiovascular disease (Review)

This is meta analysis and is not really what I'm looking for. Anyway looking at the actual study and not the abstract shows that fat is probably not implicated!

There is a suggestion that dietary fat modification has protective
effects on total mortality and on cardiovascular mortality when
the dietary modification is followed for at least two years, however
this trend is not statistically significant. It may be that not enough
people were involved in long term trials to show the protective
effect of a change in dietary fat, or it may be that there is no such
effect.



Dietary Saturated and transFatty Acids and Cholesterol and 25-Year Mortality from Coronary Heart Disease: The Seven Countries Study

This is a study of a study and as such does not meet my requirements I am looking for actual scientific studies

It is a rehash of Ancel Keys Seven Counties Study which despite its legendary status, was fatally flawed, it used only national diet and death statistics to support his points. For one thing, Keys chose seven countries he knew would support his hypothesis. Had Keys chosen at random, or say, chosen France and Switzerland rather than Japan and Finland, he would likely have seen no effect from from saturated fat, and there might be no such thing today as the “French Paradox” - a nation that consumes copious saturated fat but has comparatively little heart disease. Note: My comments are taken from “The Diet Delusion” by Gary Taubes

Dietary saturated fats and their food sources in relation to the risk of coronary heart disease in women
This is an observational study and is no substitute for randomised controlled trials because associational studies cannot distinguish reliably between cause and effect. The bold words are hardly a ringing endorsement that saturated fatty acids cause CHD!

Results: During 14 y of follow-up, we documented 939 incident cases of major CHD events. In multivariate analyses in which age, smoking, and other covariates were controlled for, intakes of short- to medium-chain saturated fatty acids (4:0–10:0) were not significantly associated with the risk of CHD. In contrast, intakes of longer-chain saturated fatty acids (12:0–18:0) were each separately associated with a small increase in risk. The multivariate RR for a 1% energy increase from stearic acid was 1.19 (95% CI: 1.02, 1.37). The ratio of polyunsaturated to saturated fat was strongly and inversely associated with CHD risk (multivariate RR for a comparison of the highest with the lowest deciles: 0.58; 95% CI: 0.41, 0.83; P for trend < 0.0001). Conversely, higher ratios of red meat to poultry and fish consumption and of high-fat to low-fat dairy consumption were associated with significantly greater risk.

 

[Peter C]

Dear Peter,

Many thanks for your efforts but as you can see the data you provided does not help much.

On the contrary helps a great deal.
The Cochrane meta analysis of 27 research papers in this field is pretty conclusive ... as I said if a Cochrane Collaboration meta analysis says too much sat fats are bad for you...End of.

 

[karinagal]

Dear Karina,

My diet consists of 60 - 70% fat by energy content and has done for more than 12 years, yet my main heart disease risk factors triglycerides and HDL are excellent (LDL is not a good predictor of heart disease) . We do not need carbohydrate in our diet. When our body stores fat why would it store it in unstable form - the notion is crazy. You are correct, unused glucose is turned into body fat - saturated body fat!

Warmest Regards Dodger

I would disagree that we don't need carbs in our diet - the foods which supply us with carbs (and I'm including fruits and vegetables here) may also be supplying us with necessary nutrients and vitamins/minerals which I don't believe can be supplied by foods which predominantly contain saturated fat.

I may be wrong, but most if not all of the books I'm reading regarding diabetes and diet seem to support this.

However, you have made it clear that your posts are your opinion just as my posts are my opinion - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree! 🙂

Karina

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Dear Peter,

Many thanks for your efforts but as you can see the data you provided does not help much.

On the contrary helps a great deal.
The Cochrane meta analysis of 27 research papers in this field is pretty conclusive ... as I said if a Cochrane Collaboration meta analysis says too much sat fats are bad for you...End of.

Dear Peter,

I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree, my response on the Cochrane Collaboration meta analysis was taken from the actual report and it says clearly that saturated fat is probably not implicated! If you don't believe me look it up it is on page 20

Warmest Regards Dodger