Raw Deal

[WillyG]

I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2, and am on a no/low carb diet. I’m happy to say that in a month of changing what I eat, and exercising more, I’ve lost a stone.

But I am dismayed at how difficult it can be to avoid carbohydrates when out and about. Today I was at the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh. Its cafe, I notice, has several gluten free options. But the only carb-free possibility was a bowl of soup. Everything was a riff on sandwiches and cake. There were sub rolls, and baguettes, and wraps, and sliced bread ….but all carbs.

1% of the population cannot tolerate gluten. 6% are diabetic. Why are we so badly catered for?

 

[Lucyr]

1% of the population cannot tolerate gluten. 6% are diabetic. Why are we so badly catered for?

Well being diabetic doesn’t mean you can’t eat carbs for a start…

 

[John Gray]

Caterers cater for the bulk of the population, otherwise they'd very rapidly be out of business!
You could equally well complain about (most) food not being vegan or vegetarian.
Moderate amounts of carbs are fairly necessary for everyone, but diabetics need simply to take more care.

 

[Leadinglights]

When you eat out you have to look upon it as occasional and do your best with what is available. I had a crustless quiche in a cafe and quite honestly it was awful, under seasoned and bland.
If I have a sandwich I leave the crusts.

 

[Inka]

I have recently been diagnosed with Type 2, and am on a no/low carb diet. I’m happy to say that in a month of changing what I eat, and exercising more, I’ve lost a stone.

But I am dismayed at how difficult it can be to avoid carbohydrates when out and about. Today I was at the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh. Its cafe, I notice, has several gluten free options. But the only carb-free possibility was a bowl of soup. Everything was a riff on sandwiches and cake. There were sub rolls, and baguettes, and wraps, and sliced bread ….but all carbs.

1% of the population cannot tolerate gluten. 6% are diabetic. Why are we so badly catered for?

People with diabetes eat a wide variety of diets. Today, for example, I had pizza and trifle for dessert. I definitely don’t want special ‘diabetic’ foods and, in fact, Diabetes U.K. campaigned hard to get that label removed from foods.

In your position, I’d have had the soup and a sandwich and left some or all of the sandwich bread.

 

[Pam123]

Moderation is the key today I had a chicken roast only had 2 roast potatoes a tiny bit of mash and half of the yorkshire pudding then treated myself to lemon curd cheese cake with cream and berries, this is our local Bistro and we visit twice a week and never had a spike, same as my GP said you have to live.

 

[DaveB]

Well being diabetic doesn’t mean you can’t eat carbs for a start…

Don't agree. I for one have to really keep my carbs down to avoid my BS going really high despite high levels of insulin and I'm slim. We're no different from those with gluten intolerance. Both need to keep the carbs or gluten down if you are intolerant of these foods like myself

 

[helli]

Don't agree. I for one have to really keep my carbs down to avoid my BS going really high despite high levels of insulin and I'm slim. We're no different from those with gluten intolerance. Both need to keep the carbs or gluten down if you are intolerant of these foods like myself

But not all people with diabetes manage their condition with low carbs.
As @Inka mentioned (with her pizza example), people with diabetes eat a variety of diets. I have no need to restrict my carbs.
However, I chose not to eat meat. When eating out, my choice is limited due to this. I do not blame the restaurant if their restricted options do not include things I can eat (there are some veg I do not eat).

 

[Drummer]

I'd suspect that the soup was thickened with starch.
These days I do not expect to be catered for when out of the house, but on expeditions in the campervan I prepare a first and last meal just as at home, and don't eat lunch.
If away from civilised life I can make do with tins of fish or meat with salad stuff, maybe coleslaw, cheese is always a possibility.
If there is no low carb option for food then I do not eat - it is not anything terrible to go a day without eating if the normal diet is nourishing.

 

[Wendal]

People with diabetes eat a wide variety of diets. Today, for example, I had pizza and trifle for dessert. I definitely don’t want special ‘diabetic’ foods and, in fact, Diabetes U.K. campaigned hard to get that label removed from foods.

In your position, I’d have had the soup and a sandwich and left some or all of the sandwich bread.

Agree Inka.We all find what works best for us and that may involve low carb or normal or even high carb depending on how they affect us and how we want to balance our health and lifestyle.
I started off low carb as a way of getting knowledge of how my body responded and keeping my insulin needs fairly low.I now have a much more similar diet to pre diagnosis and I more or less eat what I want and balance it with exercise and more insulin if required.

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

But I am dismayed at how difficult it can be to avoid carbohydrates when out and about.

You aren’t the first to have found this frustration @WillyG - and to have wondered the same thing about the availability of suitable options for people who opt for a low-carb approach.

But as you can see, there are a wide variety of ways of eating among different diabetes types (we have members with different types of diabetes who find that very different types of menu work for them).

I think @helli’s comment about vegetarian choices is an interesting one too (and the choice is usually even more limited for those on a vegan menu). Not to mention those with severe food allergies!

Eating out will always be something of a compromise I think.

 

[Lucyr]

Not to mention those with severe food allergies!

Good point, my sister has a severe nut allergy. We can’t even go inside a vegetarian restaurant and when out for coffee together we need to pick venues that don’t offer almond milk. With diabetes you can at least just get a tea or a coffee and prepare your own snack if you know there’s unlikely to be anything suitable.

 

[Satan’s little helper]

Don't agree. I for one have to really keep my carbs down to avoid my BS going really high despite high levels of insulin and I'm slim. We're no different from those with gluten intolerance. Both need to keep the carbs or gluten down if you are intolerant of these foods like myself

I think it’s very easy for someone with access to a running tap to forget others only source of water is from contaminated areas, which can have detrimental effect on long term health.

 

[nonethewiser]

Don't agree. I for one have to really keep my carbs down to avoid my BS going really high despite high levels of insulin and I'm slim. We're no different from those with gluten intolerance. Both need to keep the carbs or gluten down if you are intolerant of these foods like myself

Trouble is more you restrict carbs more you can end up in a vicious circle & become more & more less tolerant of them.

Reading your post @DaveB reminds me of a young man who was a regular poster on here who went hard core low carb, not seen him around for good 6 years or more but he started to use more & more insulin despite eating hardly any carbs, when he did eat some carbs his bg results were shockingly bad, in short he slowly started to reintroduce carbs & over period of weeks his bg stabilised & his insulin usage halfed.

So what the mechanism behind his experience was Im not sure as dont have scientific mind, but he spoke openly about his experience which, for some of us here was a lesson not to take things way to far.

Sure lads username began with Dex or something so you might remember him.

 

[Inka]

Do you mean DeusXM @nonethewiser ? He comments on a thread here (note the typo in his first sentence - he wrote “Type 1” twice but the first one should be ‘very low carb’ or similar:

High BG on LCHF...

Hi all, I'm currently doing the DAFNE course which has left me a little confused after working with the DSN & dietician to sort out my BG levels. I've been low-carbing for around 2-3 months (with a few cheat weekends) with daily carbs adding to around 40g from veg/salad mostly. According to...

forum.diabetes.org.uk

“[Very low carb] is simply NOT the universal panacea for diabetes that T2s assume it to be.
….Secondly, for T1s, low-carbing introduces two new levels of unpredictability. Almost all T2s have residual insulin production, which means that for foods that release glucose out slower than carbs, their pancreases can keep up. Unfortunately, we don't have that option. If you are low-carbing as a T1, your body increases its conversion of protein to glucose, and typically, most people on a low-carb diet increase their protein intake. This creates a wildly unpredictable glucose profile - protein starts converting to glucose around 2-3 hours after eating which makes it incredibly hard to bolus for. As a T1, you need to bolus for protein too, which T2s generally don't need to factor in.
Thirdly (and this is where it gets controversial)....low-carbing can actually increase your insulin resistance, which means that you proportionally need more insulin (sometimes a lot more) and can actually end up taking more insulin in total. Seriously. After trying out low-carbing, I've completely wrecked my insulin ratios to the point that I can't actually eat carbs at lunchtime full stop, even if I inject according to a 1:2 ratio - yes, 1u per 2g of carbs. If I want a sandwich for lunch, I will generally have to take about 20u of Novorapid - I'm on just 26u of Lantus per day and that will keep my BG levels rock steady if I don't eat, so that should illustrate just how badly low-carbing can potentially affect your future ability to metabolise carbs. Correction doses are even more of a nightmare where 1u will only reduce my BG by about 0.2mmol/l. When things have gone wrong (eg. you misjudged your bolus earlier), that can cause major issues and I find that on average once a month I have to do a highly dangerous IV injection of insulin just to get back on track. This is likely to horrify people but if my BG starts getting into the high teens, I will literally mainline 10-12u of Novorapid as it is the only way to get back on track. I am aware this is PHENOMENALLY dangerous but it's the only choice I am left with and I've learned how to manage this effectively.”

 

[nonethewiser]

Do you mean DeusXM @nonethewiser ? He comments on a thread here (note the typo in his first sentence - he wrote “Type 1” twice but the first one should be ‘very low carb’ or similar:

High BG on LCHF...

Hi all, I'm currently doing the DAFNE course which has left me a little confused after working with the DSN & dietician to sort out my BG levels. I've been low-carbing for around 2-3 months (with a few cheat weekends) with daily carbs adding to around 40g from veg/salad mostly. According to...

forum.diabetes.org.uk

“[Very low carb] is simply NOT the universal panacea for diabetes that T2s assume it to be.
….Secondly, for T1s, low-carbing introduces two new levels of unpredictability. Almost all T2s have residual insulin production, which means that for foods that release glucose out slower than carbs, their pancreases can keep up. Unfortunately, we don't have that option. If you are low-carbing as a T1, your body increases its conversion of protein to glucose, and typically, most people on a low-carb diet increase their protein intake. This creates a wildly unpredictable glucose profile - protein starts converting to glucose around 2-3 hours after eating which makes it incredibly hard to bolus for. As a T1, you need to bolus for protein too, which T2s generally don't need to factor in.
Thirdly (and this is where it gets controversial)....low-carbing can actually increase your insulin resistance, which means that you proportionally need more insulin (sometimes a lot more) and can actually end up taking more insulin in total. Seriously. After trying out low-carbing, I've completely wrecked my insulin ratios to the point that I can't actually eat carbs at lunchtime full stop, even if I inject according to a 1:2 ratio - yes, 1u per 2g of carbs. If I want a sandwich for lunch, I will generally have to take about 20u of Novorapid - I'm on just 26u of Lantus per day and that will keep my BG levels rock steady if I don't eat, so that should illustrate just how badly low-carbing can potentially affect your future ability to metabolise carbs. Correction doses are even more of a nightmare where 1u will only reduce my BG by about 0.2mmol/l. When things have gone wrong (eg. you misjudged your bolus earlier), that can cause major issues and I find that on average once a month I have to do a highly dangerous IV injection of insulin just to get back on track. This is likely to horrify people but if my BG starts getting into the high teens, I will literally mainline 10-12u of Novorapid as it is the only way to get back on track. I am aware this is PHENOMENALLY dangerous but it's the only choice I am left with and I've learned how to manage this effectively.”

That's him, that was one of his posts anyway @Inka

Good find, just couldn't remember his username but knew it began with D.

 

[grovesy]

He has not been around for a number of years.

 

[JonathanGi]

I eat anything and everything. Actually, no I don't. I don't eat meat. I don't eat cardoons.
Our individual eating habits change quite a lot in a lifetime. I have found that I eat less as I've aged probably because I'm not as active. Sometimes spectacularly inactive!
Cancer definitely changed the way I eat. Something that I still don't quite understand.
.