Rachel's Pharmacy Corner

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RachelT

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1.5 LADA
Well, here goes.
People suggested i explained what happens on the other side of the pharmacy counter, because it's interesting and i suppose it's something most people here have to deal with in one way or another.
Let me start by introducing myself. My name's Rachel and i've been type 2 diabetic for two years now and i've been working in hospital pharmacies for about six years. I'm currently a pharmacy technician in my local, general hospital. It's not something i had a burning ambition to do, because to be honest, before i worked in them hospitals scared me, but a kind of fell into the area out of curiosity after i was made redundant from my first job.

I'm going to try to explain a bit about how the NHS is organised (this week, things may have changed by next week.). At the top there's the ministry of health, followed i think by regional health authorities and bodies such as NICE (National Institute of Clinical Excellence: who advise the NHS on what is and isn't good or cost effective to give or do to patients) the MHRA (Medicines and Health Regulatory Authority, who are basically the rulers of the day to day running of pharmacies, they grant licenses which is all important and i guess i'll come to that later) and a host of other bodies that are being closed or merged or disbanded at the moment to save money.
Below that are the Local Health Authorites.
Then we have a split:
Primary Care (PCTs) who organise GPs, Pharmacies and other health services in your local area. These are also roumored to be on the way out. Nobody is quite sure what we'll replace them with.
Secondary Care : Local Hospitals
Tertiary Care: These are specialist hospitals and centres for treatment. Great Ormond Street in London is a tertiary care hospital because it deals exclusively (or vertually exclusively) with Children's medcine.

Basically you, the patient, start in Primary care, seeing your GP, and if he feels you could benefit from a more experienced or specialist doctor, he refers you to a Secondary care institution, probably your local hospital or a clinic in it. If the local clinic thinks you need further speciallist treatment or assesment then they can refer you to tertiary care. At the moment, i don't think a GP can send you straight to a tertiary care provider, but i think that's likely to change.
The PCT is in charge of the local formulary, which is what you GP is allowed to prescribe (he can probably prescribe whatever he likes but he has to give a good reason) which is probably the source of everybodies' test strip woes. Somebody in an office somewhere (and i'll have to be careful because of friend of mine probably does this 🙂) has spotted that a certain GP surgery has been giving out a lot of test strips...it's almost certainly not your fault, after all, i bet you're not the only diabetic at the surgery, but the surgery will have had a letter or email saying that they're been spending a bit too much money, would they care to cut down? And then lo and behold, you've had your test strips rationed or taken away completely.

Foundation Trusts
You may have noticed that your local hospital is now a foundation trust, what does that mean? Well, it was the benchmark all hospitals were supposed to achieve or work towards and was set up by the last government. What happens next, i'm not sure, but my employers are currently applying. It gives a hospital a greater say over how it is run and how it spends it's money. The hospital has to elect a board of governers made up of chief executive type people, senior consultants and a number of other people, who can be anybody over 16, who want to take part and have a say. You also have to meet a number or targets in regard of safety, spending and hygiene.

Ambulances arn't part of any of this, they have thier own trusts.

Sorry is this is all a bit vague, but the government is trying to rearrange stuff, and i'm trying to remember what i learnt at college three and a half years ago.


Rachel
 
Rachel I have been waiting for this thank you, very informative x
 
we love you rachel... !!
did you see the thing about the robotic pharmacists on the breekie tv ???😱
 
I did, i nearly died laughing! We have a robot and an electronic prescription tracker and we still get stock balance problems and nurses still insist on ringing to hurry us up or in being rung to tell them stuff's ready. They also didn't mention how many times a month the robot breaks down....we reakon ours has PMT... I've decided to name her Roxanne because we really don't want her to put on the red light.....
 
I did, i nearly died laughing! We have a robot and an electronic prescription tracker and we still get stock balance problems and nurses still insist on ringing to hurry us up or in being rung to tell them stuff's ready. They also didn't mention how many times a month the robot breaks down....we reakon ours has PMT... I've decided to name her Roxanne because we really don't want her to put on the red light.....

Ooh! Poem opportunity :D
 
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I did, i nearly died laughing! We have a robot and an electronic prescription tracker and we still get stock balance problems and nurses still insist on ringing to hurry us up or in being rung to tell them stuff's ready. They also didn't mention how many times a month the robot breaks down....we reakon ours has PMT... I've decided to name her Roxanne because we really don't want her to put on the red light.....

it cant cope with different sizes boxes so they are starting to standardise all the packaging ...
 
Ours has two arms, and when they crash into each other, which they're obviously not supossed to, they break the shelves and the whole thing grinds to a standstill. It can do different sized boxes, but really hates it when the barcodes are printed in colours other than black. It/she spits them out again.
 
Thank you, this is brilliant. It's entertaining and informative, I can't say thank you enough for stuff like this.🙂
 
Great start - tales of the robot had me laughing out loud 🙂

Just to add that NHS organisation and funding is different in the 4 countries of the UK eg different rules about who gets free prescriptions in England / Wales / Scotland / Northern Ireland.

Rachel is in England, so we need NHS experts from other countries to add their facts, too.
 
Rachel..

First class insight into the other side of the counter, thanks very informative, keep em coming 🙂

John
 
I did, i nearly died laughing! We have a robot and an electronic prescription tracker and we still get stock balance problems and nurses still insist on ringing to hurry us up or in being rung to tell them stuff's ready. They also didn't mention how many times a month the robot breaks down....we reakon ours has PMT... I've decided to name her Roxanne because we really don't want her to put on the red light.....

I can see that there is a ghost in the machine and it needs some policing 😉

Also, thanks for the post Rachel, it's really interesting.

Andy
 
My main hosptial is a Foundation Trust Hospitals, and I'm a trust member!

Which basically means, I get invited to differnent presentation through the year and get to comment on the idea's being put forward!

How much difference it truly makes I'm not sure, but it does give the hospital a lot more control of it's buget..

One benefit that did steam from this for diabetics, in 2008 PCT was dragging it's heels over funding DAFNE courses for April 08/09... But between the consultant/DSN's dieticians who run the DAFNE course who used free time and some holiday, and some funding from the hospital coffers, managed to get 5 courses arranged for that year, hoping to extract funding out of the PCT to add a couple more!!!

One of the reasons that our hospital was able to be one of the first up takers of the Foundation Trust, is to it's rarety, that of being one of the very few hospitals who managed to get through a year in budget.. The services and standards it provides are pretty good most of the time..

But it's going to be interesting and worrying whats going to happen concernin cuts being made..

And will the government realise that implementing a overhaul and restructure of our NHS, has to be done by an external henchman, leaving the NHS to sort restrucure itself, will only mean a very much poorer service with high impact at the patients end... As the managers do everything they can to save there own over paid easy number and useless position
 
Chapter 2! Different types of pharmacy

Thanks for all the comments folks. I wasn't sure weather to continue this thread or start a new one so i'll give this a go.

All my fellow NHS workers, Trust members (Good on you Ellie!) feel free to chip in if i'm talking rubbish.

Pharmacy Staff

As you must have realised, there's a few different types of pharmacies out there and they can sort of be put into three categories:

Community Pharmacy: Boots, Superdrugs Lloyds etc. These provide drugs to people like you and me when they've been precribed by your GP or in a hospital outpatient clinic. Just about every community pharmacy i've seen also sells drugs "over the counter" (although i haven't asked the one at my GP surgery).

Hospital Pharmacy: These a essential to hospital function because it's where all the drugs come from. In general they only supply patients of the hospital, weather in clinics or on wards. They don't tend to supply GP prescriptions because of workload or budgetary restrictions.

Pharmacy Manufacturing (and overlabelling) Units: These are sometimes attached to hospitals and many of these units did start of being part of a hospital pharmacy. They don't supply medicines to members of the public, but to community and hospital pharmacies. They generally make up or relabel drugs in small quantities, too small to apply for a product licence, but large enough to be run as a separate business.

Many hospitals have areas where they compound (mix) their own drugs, often creams for skincare or making up injections for chemotherapy or antibiotics. My hospital also has a radiopharmacy which (as far as i can tell) attaches radioactive dyes to patient's blood to help in diagnostic imagining.

You can also get pharmacies in places like prisons and military bases, which, as far as i can see, function as small hospital pharmacies.
 
Cracking read Rachel, only just noticed it, regarding first chapter, thank you, whenever somebody mentioned Primary care trust I always assumed it was for kids, young primary school age kids🙄 But you have explained it all perfectly thank you.
Chapter 2 I am aware of a bit about the dealings of Pharmacists as me lil bro is a qualified pharmacist, he always confused me knowing all these long names of drugs conditions etc, quite amazing how much they (or at least me bro) knows, not that I'd tell him this!

bring on next weeks/time installment!

Maybe one day I'll write something about my corner!😛

Cheers

Rossi🙂
 
Hi Rachel,

Apologies for asking this question - its so minor and probably unimportant but it really is bugging me.

At the weekend I went into our local Tesco Pharmacy with hubby to hand in prescription for strips. There was no one in there, except the pharmacist who was looking into space. I handed him the prescription and he asked me to wait whilst he checked they had them in. I watched him walk to them and then come back and confirm he had them. I could see them on shelf.

He then asked me if i could go and do some shopping and come back in half an hour as he was on his own. I checked he was the pharmacist and he confirmed he was but was on his own. I then advised him I didn't have shopping to do but would quite happily sit and wait.

Me and my husband then sat and looked at each other in astonishment as he sat back down again and stared into space (it wasn't lunch time or anything). He kept looking at us and then after 5 mins I think we won because he picked the strips off the shelf and popped them in a bag, typed something on a computer and called us.

No one else was in the shop until this point. As we were leaving..an elderly lady walked in and we heard him say 'can you come back in half an hour ..I am on my own'.

Now from where we are, we wonder why couldn't he jsut pop the strips in a bag and be done with? Am I missing something pharmacists need to do? Or am I right in my first assumption that he was a lazy good for nothing.

On leaving my husband picked up a card that gave an email address to complain about any issue relating to the chemist...I just want to check first that this isn't normal.


I did say it was only a minor issue..but would be nice to know!
 
Who's Who!

Hi Lucy, I'll come to that soon, i promise.. (although the pharmacist did seem to a bit of a timewaster, geez, get a move on man! 30 minutes of time to stare into space would be a rarity....no....scary in my job.)

There can be a whole bunch of people working in your local chemists or hospital dispensary. When i first joined i kind of assumed that the people behind the counter at Boots were pretty much like me, behind the counter at a photographic shop, but soon discovered otherwise. I have to say, it took me a while to be able to separate senior pharmacists from the juniors and the meds management techs from the dispensary techs.

I'll start at the bottom, because that's where your average tech will have started.

ATOs, Dispensers, Counter Assistants and Receptionists.

These people are distinguished by not having a BTEC or degree in pharmacy, and infact might very well not know anything about drugs or chemistry at all. However, in hospitals they are essential (and probably not valued enough...yes, certain hospital on the hampshire surrey border, i'm thinking of you!) as they take all the flak and do a lot of hard work. In my hospital they're responsible for stock control, especially to the wards as well as the bulk of the labelling and dispensing (they also make up syringes in our cleanrooms, and SB who keeps QA running smoothly and makes sure all our stuff comes off test on time). The recpetionist is the first person who gets the complaints, even if it was nothing to do with them. Many of them are very knowledgable, dispite having no formal pharmaceutical training. I'd like to blow the trumpet for every ATO, Dispenser and Receptionist out there, you all do an amazing job guys.
Assistants of all varities have or are working towards an NVQ level 2.

Student Technicians

I hated being an ATO (or "human ansaphone" as i like to describe it) and i was still really interested in what all the different drugs do and felt proud to be working in healthcare. The best option was to apply to become a student technician, which took me away from the afformentioned "certain hospital" (note: the staff are really very nice and work very hard, but it's not the lowest stressed place i've every worked, and i just didn't like my job very much) and to a "famous hospital in London", which was quite exciting at the time. Student technicians are working towards a BTEC (level 3 i think, my certificate is at work) and an NVQ level 3 in pharmacy services. Or the equivalent if they work for a large chain of community chemists. You usually attend college one day a week and study not only the actions and uses of drugs, but the legal issues surrounding pharmacy, biology, chemistry, drug calculations, extemporaneous manufacture (that's making up creams and ointment, amongst other things, i felt very smug watching Victorian Pharmacy because i do know how to make a suppository! Needless to say i've actually needed to do beyond the exam...) and microbiology.
NVQs by the way, are vocational qualifications, you collect eveidence to prove you can do your job, fill out LOTS of paperwork and answer questions about your day to day work.

Technicians

After two years of study (and paperwork) you get to call yourself a technician, which means you've got a bit more responsibility. You often start off doing the same work as experienced ATOs but you're expected to be more efficient at it and to be able to handle dispensing and patient counselling and calculations. Technicians now have to be registered with the General Pharmaceutical Council, or in the process of applying. Again, they get employed all over, in Aseptics, Procurement, Medicines Information, Manufacturing, Quality Assurance as well as dispensing. They can't run pharmacies though, not without a pharmacist's supervision.

Medicines Management

Not something you get in community (or at least i've never met one) these are more experienced technicians who go out into wards (and in some cases care homes i think) and talk to patients out thier drugs. What they've been taking, what for and weither they have any allergies. There's probably more to it than that, but i'm not one yet....One day, i hope.

Pre-registration pharmacists and students

A pharmacist has to have a masters degree in pharmacy or pharmaceutical science. Undergraduates sometimes work in the holidays for experience and a little extra cash. Since they're not qualified or covered by much insurance, they tend to get saddled with similiar jobs as the ATOs, but a good workplacement will let them shadow pharmacists and carry out audits.
Once they've gotten their degrees, a phaarmacy graduate has to do a year's on the job training, called a pre-registration year. You can either be based in hospital or community, and you normally get a week to a month of experience in the other side as well. Lucky pre-regs get treated as pharmacists, unlucky ones spend 10 months doing the same job as a student tech and the last month is a mad rush of clinical study. At the end they have to sit what i think looks like a horrible exam, and then register with the Council. It used to all be handled by the Royal Pharmaceutical Society, but has recently changed (possibly because they didn't like having anything to do with technicians), it's quite possible you have to join both. But you might get your fees paid for you by your employer, which we techs don't.

Hospital Pharmacists often study for a further qualification called a Diploma, which separates the basic grade pharmacists from their more experienced coleagues.

A pharmacy can't run with having a registered pharmacist in charge, you can't dispense, give out or sell anything with one on the premisis (although this is probably going to change, pharmacists can supervise by video-link apparently, they're trialling some drink machine type robots where the pharmacist talks to you over the TV.) The pharmacist in charge at any particular time is called the Responsible Pharmacist and he or she will get into trouble if anything goes wrong.

Chief Pharmacist

He or she is the overall boss of the department in a hospital.

The allocation of responsibilities between pharmacy staff is shifting, ATOs are doing jobs once carried out by technicians, techs are now doing what pharmacists once did on wards, and pharmacists are becoming more like doctors.
 
Regarding the pharmacist in Tesco:

I work in a community pharmacy and my pharmacist, although she can label, dispense and give out prescriptions by herself, prefers one of us to double check it before she does. Its just to avoid making mistakes. Having said that, she would probably be fine doing a prescription for just one item by herself! Most pharmacists would rather do a small prescription than lose the item by telling them it won't be ready for half an hour when they are clearly not doing anything else!
 
Ooh, can I chip in to say I did some work experience in a radiopharmacy once? It's where they prepare solutions for injection of radioactive tracers for diagnostic imaging tests. Like Rachel says, this can be attaching radionuclides to blood, or it can be drawing up a radioactive solution and mixing it with a powdered kit to form an injection for something like a kidney or bone scan. Most of the products are handled behind lead glass screens to reduce the dose to staff.

Fascinating thread, Rachel!
 
I'm more than happy to get input from you Lauren, thank you!

Why does it take 30 minutes to put some tablets in a box?

Here's your prescription's journey, things may be a little different in community and they certainly go a lot quicker (30 mins is good for us!) but it's basically the same.

1)You hand your prescription to the person behind the counter, in my case it's an ATO (see futher up the thread) but it could be a technician or a pharmacist. They need to check your details, particularly your age and weather you have any allergies to any drugs. Small children may need to be weighed. If you go there a lot it can take seconds, in hospitals it can take minutes. There's also all the business about prescription charges, not an issue for some of us, but get a customer who sure they don't have to pay but doesn't actually meet the right criteria and that takes up time too. Taking the money isn't that easy when your customer hasn't come prepared (ie the patient has been brought into A&E, has been sent to you with a prescription but hasn't got any money on them, and the hospital pharmacy doesn't take cards or cheques, and discourages IOUs).

2)Validation: Next your prescription is validated by a pharmacist. The pharmacist (and it has to be a pharmacist) checks that the drugs, doses, frequencies and methods of administration are all suitable for the person taking them. Also the prescription has to be legal (signed and dated by a real doctor and legible) and filled out in the right way. Again easy if you're a regular customer, but in the hospital things are more complicated. You're dealing with anybody between the ages of 0 and 100 (and some over), who, because they are in hospital, obviously have a fairly serious medical condition. You might not know them, you may never have even seen them. You may have to contact the prescriber to discuss any problems.

3) Labelling: This can be done by a trained dispenser, a technician or a pharmacist (or a student of any sort). The instructions on the prescription are printed out on a label for each of the drugs involved. We don't tend to assume that the patient knows or has been told what to do with their drugs (although we do have confidence in diabetics, you'll be glad to know, insulin and test strips only ever get "use as directed"). Sometimes the labels get passed on to somebody else, some places have labelling and dispensing carried out by different people (this is probably safer as the labels will get an extra check by a fresh pair of eyes, and more efficient for a certain workload depending on the staff to computer ratio, on the other hand, it's a bit monotinous for the staff, which is never a good thing and might outwiegh the safety benefit) sometimes the dispensing will be done by the person who wrote the labels, especially in smaller pharmacies.

4)Dispensing: Again this can be done by anybody (within reason, you can't quite drag people in off the streets), although it does help if you've had some training. This is the tablet in box bit, but you have to supply the write drug from the massive quantity on offer, within the expiry date of the drug and in the right strength and form and the right quanitity. This is complicated by differing storage locations and the fact that drug names seem to have been pulled out of a scrabble bag...Getting Amoldipine and Amiodarone mixed up, or Bisoprolol and Bisocodyl, Azathioprine and Azithromycin and personal favourate (because they are always next to each other on a shelf and are used to treat similar things) Mercaptopurine and Methotrexate, is a serious hazard and can lead to the death of the person you're trying to treat. A community pharmacist has recently been convicted of manslaughter i think, for dispensing the wrong tablet even though the patient's death wasn't proved to due to taking the wrong tablets.

5) Checking: Obviously due to the dangers involved, all prescriptions get checked by either a pharmacist or a checking technician (who has enough experience and has passed tests and provided evedence to prove that they can check competantly and to a high standard). The labeller and dispenser is supposed to have checked their work as they went along, so this is really just a final failsafe. However, if you're busy, or in the middle of a prescription when you're interupted or even just stressed out for whatever reason (i sometimes think they aught to make me check my blood sugar before i start, but then somebody else would have to pay for my test strips....) you can make mistakes. In Hospitals nurses will also check what they've received for patients (wooooooo, i couldn't work in community....).

6)Giving Out: The prescription is handed back to you, sometimes with no more than a name and address check, but we're encouraged to make sure the patient is happy with what they've got to take and how to take it. This can involve explaining about side effects, how give yourself an injection or how to increase or reduce your dose in accordance with doctor's instruction.

A Word about stock control: Your premisis is only so big, you can't fit infinate ammounts of drugs in it (if anybody has a temperature controlled TARDIS i think i may have a market...), the ammount of insulin you can keep is dependant on the size of your fridge. In an ideal world your computerised labelling system (and maybe robot) should be able to keep track of what stock you have. It doesn't work like that, the level on the computer is hardly ever exactly the level on the shelf. I'm sure it's not just my hospital which is trying to keep stock levels down so that we spend less money on drugs that have gone out of date. If it's ordered in sometimes there's a problem with the wholesaler, and there are manufactuering problems and drug recalls to complicate things. It's still no excuse for bad customer service though.

It's all about workload, if you have 1 or 2 prescriptions in the queue, they can be done quickly and easily, a queue of 20 will take longer, because nobody has twenty dispensers and twenty checkers. Things tend to bottle neck before validation and before checking because it's usually where the least staff are. Community services are probably slowed down by sales and complicated things like dispensing for methadone users and dossette boxes, but intake of prescriptions must be fairly even. In hospitals the whole thing can be slowed down when a nurse shows up with an armfull of drug charts saying "we've got five patients we need to discharge ASAP!" If that happens, or a clinic has just kicked out a load of patients and you've got five patients needing drugs on all twenty wards of the hospital, things take longer than 20 minutes to dispense.

Please to patient, nobody is wasting your time for fun.

Rachel
 
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