Problems with Libre 2 sensors

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FlashMan

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Hi everyone. My first time on this forum. I have been using Freestyle Libre system for at least a couple of years since we were first able to justify getting them on prescription. Unfortunately I often have sensors fail when I am changing them. When the needle is punched into my arm it bends through a right angle. I have pictures (attached). Unfortunately you don't know they are bent until an hour later which is the time period you have to wait before the reader will read the new sensor. So, it is a real pain. I have even had one sensor fall to bits internally (unbeknown to me) and I ended up punching nothing into my arm, again only discovered an hour later. Recently I experienced something new. The sensor did work for a couple of days and then failed but I don't know why.
I have always complained to the manufacturer and they will happily replace them but you never get any feedback on how big this problem is and what we can do about it. It's just a call centre at the end of the day. So, as long as I have got sufficient stock I don't bother complaining now. My concern was whether I am doing something wrong but I am very careful with site selection and the process of changing sensors in line with instructions. I am very slim but always ensure the sensor goes into the muscle NOT bone LOL! image1 (4).jpegimage0 (5).jpeg

I have posted this on our DAFNE (Dose Adjustmen For Normal Eating) forum but sadly it is not used very much so I have had no responses so far.

Any of you out there have this problem. Any suggestions, help etc???? Would be nice to know I'm not alone.
 
Sorry to hear you are having trouble reliably inserting Libre sensors. Sounds very frustrating.

Do the sensors give you the ‘this sensor has failed’ message? Or the ‘try again in 10 mins‘?

Are you using the back of your arm? And aiming for the fleshiest bit of the back of your upper arm?

What proportion of sensors do you think fail for you?
 
Yes it is frustrating and happens enough times (I haven’t recorded how many times but ‘frequently‘ would be a good description) for me to expect the worst. I am due a change of sensor this week. If it goes wrong I’ll give a full description. The reader message says ‘try again in 10 mins‘ after you have waited an hour to check the newly installed sensor is working. I usually know the sensor has failed at this point and change it again. If you wait 10 mins it says the same thing. I can’t 100% remember what the reader says other than wait 10 mins but I will record what it says next time. I always use the fleshy bit of the back of my arm (especially since having this problem) and alternate arms. One time, a sensor needle was so faulty it came back out so it protruded and looked like someone had nailed the sensor to my arm but hadn’t hammered the nail all the way in. It wasn’t pretty!
 
When I was using Libre I had some sensors which offered the ‘try again in 10 minutes’ message in the early days, but then settled down.

Others gave the message when sensor values were changing rapidly, but again popped back to behaving again.

I can understand the temptation to call time early given your experiences, but it might we worth letting the 10 mins sensors run a few times before pulling the plug?

And I’d get a replacement for any sensor that fails - Abbott need to know when sensors aren’t performing, and the NHS shouldn’t be paying for sensors that don’t make it out of the starting blocks!
 
We’ll see what happens next time. I just got a bit frustrated last time and couldn’t be bothered, for the first time in 2 plus years, ringing Abbott. However, I did that every time up to that point. I do wait 10 mins at least once and occasionally twice but nothing will work if the needle has been bent through a right angle, the needle mechanism has completely collapsed or is sticking back out of the sensor. When I call Abbott I have asked if other people have had the same problem and got no feedback presumably because it is just a call centre service and not the research people. Hence why I’m making a bit of an effort on the forum.
 
Sorry to hear you are having problems with Libre 2. I think it might be helpful for you to understand that the part that you are seeing kinked through 90 degrees is not a needle but a filament. The needle which is released from the applicator fires through the centre hole in the Libre and carries the filament into your arm and is then immediately retracted back into the applicator housing. I wonder if the mechanism is misfiring in these cases and the needle is not penetrating far enough into your arm to carry the filament all the way resulting in the kink. I think other people have reported cases of failure with the filament being bent when they removed it here on the forum but no one has posted a photo which demonstrates it as clearly as you have. I very much doubt that the customer services operators are allowed to make comment about what other people have reported much as we would like them to give us feed back and the lack of accountability with this is something that I know @Proud to be erratic is particularly vocal about and I wonder if if you are having repeated problems with this, whether completing a yellow carb to report a fault on the medical device might be appropriate in the same way as we are encouraged to do so for drug side effects. Losing confidence in the product is a big issue especially when you are relying on it to keep you safe. As mentioned it is really important to report all defective sensors to Abbott and get replacements as firstly that costs them money and that is the best way to get them to fix the problem, but secondly that the NHS are paying for them and they are not cheap..... and if at some point in the future there is pressure for disclosure and some accountability regarding failures and replacements, every one reported counts.
Do you know if all the failures were from the same batch?
I know one of our regular members @Kaylz went through a really bad spell where she had something like 16 or 18 sensors which failed for a variety of reasons at various stages in the 14 day period after she had been successfully using the Libre 1 for a couple of years with very few failures.

When it works well the device is brilliant but I think there are too many issues and some feedback from Abbott that they have identified problems and are dealing with them would I think help to restore confidence with users rather than being left in the dark. I personally am sticking with the Libre 1 because it works well for me and I am reluctant to upgrade because of the significant problems some people have encountered.
 
Thank you for last post. For first time I feel it’s not just me with this problem. Knowing more about the mechanism was very helpful. Couple of queries: who are ‘proud to be erratic’ and how do you go about completing a yellow carb (or was this a typo for card) you mention to report this problem to whoever?
Thinking back I can’t remember whether I had bent filaments with Libre 1 unfortunately. It would be tempting to change back if I could but the alarm feature of Libre 2 is very helpful at preventing night time lows. So, food for thought but it would be a compromise. Anyway thank you and Abbott will get to know when another sensor goes wrong.
 
@Proud to be erratic is a member of the forum and has read my post and no doubt the whole thread last night but either didn't have anything further to contribute or perhaps was not feeling up to typing a reply late last night as he has been quite unwell recently I believe.
Yes, it was a typo (my fingers automatically hit the b key following c a r these days whether my brain tells them to or not..... Maybe I am obsessed 🙄. The yellow card scheme is a way of reporting problems with medical devices/treatment....
https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
It looks like you can complete it online or I believe you can pick up a hard copy at pharmacies or GP practices to fill in. I know it has been discussed before on the forum regarding Libre but I don't know if anyone has actually gone ahead and done it.... but feel free to be a trail blazer. 😉
You are definitely not the only person to have problems with Libre though, that is for sure and the forum is littered with posts from people having problems. Some of the problems have been software related and people have experienced trouble after an update, and others have reported kinked filaments and occasionally the adhesive fails and I imagine occasionally there will be hardware failure and occasionally no doubt user error but I can't see how it can be user error when the filament is kinked like that unless you didn't have it pressed firmly against your arm when you applied it ..... or.... thinking more about it.... the filament could kink if the sensor lifted when you removed the applicator and then firming it back onto your arm again might kink the filament like that. I always keep the applicator pressed firmly against my arm for a count of at least 60 before easing it free as it never lifts cleanly away and I always have to wriggle it a bit to lift the applicator off, so I give the adhesive a good 60 seconds to get a hold before I wriggle the applicator free. Some people seem to find the applicator just lifts straight off but every single one of mine over the last 2 and a bit years has snagged. Anyway, just something to consider. The instructions don't tell you to hold the applicator in place for a set time period, but when I first started using Libre I was self funding and at £50 a shot I could not afford for anything to go wrong so I took a belt and braces approach.
 
Hello @FlashMan,
As @rebrascora correctly says I have been fairly vocal on this forum about the apparent lack of accountability within the NHS for the contract administration of Libre 2. I have over 50% failure rate with Libre 2 and, while Abbott seem always willing to replace failed sensors, I do feel the process of the manufacturer responding directly to the user (by-passing the NHS customer) is inappropriate.

If you or I had purchased something that failed, our redress is with the seller; this makes sense to me, because the seller is aware of the product reliability and can make a commercial decision about whether to continue selling that product. By letting the user seek replacements for failed Libre sensors direct from Abbott, the NHS has (in my opinion) completely abrogated its responsibility for what is a relatively high monetary value procurement contract.

I appreciate that the NHS buys many, many items - of varying values - and Libre sensors won't be the most expensive thing that the NHS procures. But procurement by Government departments is normally bound by 'Treasury Rules', which may be unduly bureaucratic but which have been developed over time to try and ensure that public money is being spent wisely and providing good value. This would normally mean that the procurement manager for a Government department is closely involved in all aspects of the contract, including product reliability. Its difficult to see how this can occur when we users deal directly with the contractor (Abbott).

Additionally, it seems to me that not only is the best value from this contract 'suspect'. But also the NHS contract manager simply has no idea what proportion of sensors are not only unfit for purpose, but unaware of the extent of the inconvenience to those users who have to replace failed sensors inside the 14 day expected use period. Libre sensors are an important medical product; one could reasonably argue that most medical products are important, but perhaps small incidentals are less so. Sensors are life saving as well as life changing.

The NHS, by choosing to procure equipment centrally, has a responsibility to patients and taxpayers. In theory centralised procurement should produce better value by bulk buying; in practice this ideal is suspect. A good example of that was PPE at the start of the pandemic. Because the NHS had failed to hold sensible stocks of PPE in readiness for a major problem (which had been foreseen for decades) emergency procurement of PPE was done extremely wastefully, costing in excess of £10 million monthly. Ironically, some of those millions went to Abbott (a big US pharmaceutical company) for PPE, who sourced it from China; they had a supply contract which apparently UK didn't have. Instead of sacking the previous Chief Executive of the NHS for the lack of preparation, we rewarded him with a Knighthood.

It remains to be seen whether the Parliamentary Public Finance Committee, who retrospectively scrutinise Government Dept spending, will look at how the NHS procures. They look at most other Government Departments.

@rebrascora, thank you for responding on my behalf a couple of days ago. I had been unwell, but happily no longer so; just very busy currently with trying to sell our house, now we've seen and made an offer on somewhere suitable for our planned downsizing! All a bit stressful, as well as exciting after almost 10 years of considering, looking and dithering!
 
I’m having similar problems - new to Libre and my first 2 sensors have failed prematurely. They appear to be fine on application, work fine for 7-9 days and then fail (stop being able to be scanned and then give the sensor ended message). When removed , the filament appears bent at an angle, not right angled as the photo at the start of this thread but a 45 degree angle.

is it me? Am I doing something wrong?
 
Forester said:
I’m having similar problems - new to Libre and my first 2 sensors have failed prematurely. They appear to be fine on application, work fine for 7-9 days and then fail (stop being able to be scanned and then give the sensor ended message). When removed , the filament appears bent at an angle, not right angled as the photo at the start of this thread but a 45 degree angle.

is it me? Am I doing something wrong?
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Hello @Forester,
I doubt it is you! Despite my 'over 50% failures, I 've never noticed a badly bent filament. My instinct is that if it bent significantly as it went in, it would be unlikely to work from the outset; however once the sensor is removed I can imagine the filament then getting bent. My failures are akin to yours, usually works OK at first (but sometimes well adrift from actual BG) and then either sometimes just gets even further adrift from actual (to the point of being unreasonable to persist) or abruptly stops. I've never had one fall off, nor have I knocked one off on a door frame!

I glean that many people get reliable and reasonably accurate service from their libre sensors. I deduce that my failure rate is because it IS me; my body doesn't seem to be compatible with Libre. I don't believe I'm doing something wrong.
 
FlashMan said:
Sorry forgot to answer your query re batches. The fault has been over a long time and multiple batches.
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That's interesting. I think it's six? seven? sensors I've had so far. Four have gone back, this one will be the fifth. I was asked if the filament was bent once but I've not had this.

Is there a form that can be filled out for returning the sensors? I'm thinking some kind of multiple choice thing.
 
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I have had a few failures on my-self funded sensors. each time i contact them via a link on the website, which is replied to promptly with the offer of a replacement but also with a questionnaire that they ask you to complete asking for details of the sensor and things like what were you doing when it failed, whether the failure resulted in you needing assistance and whether the assistance was of a medical emergency type and asking for the error messages from the log on the app, this i guess is similar to the yellow card that has been talked about. they always ask on this questionnaire whether the sensor is able to be returned as if it is they will send out a returns envelope with the replacement sensor. it is also a policy within the pharmaceutical world that they in this case Abbott have to complete an adverse event report to document any issues/side effects that have been raised/seen from a drug of piece of medical equipment, so i would encourage everyone who has a failure to report it.
 
Paul Goldie said:
I have had a few failures on my-self funded sensors. each time i contact them via a link on the website
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Does the link go to an online thing or do you have to call them? I ask because I have tinnitus and phoning is sometimes a problem. It would be great if phoning them could be avoided (I have phoned in those that have gone back already).
 
void said:
Does the link go to an online thing or do you have to call them? I ask because I have tinnitus and phoning is sometimes a problem. It would be great if phoning them could be avoided (I have phoned in those that have gone back already).
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Hi, i have never called them about a failed sensor, always sorted via online form on website and then subsequent emails. Thanks.
 
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