Pre-diabetic Vegan Newbie seeks advice

MAC2020

Active Member
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At risk of diabetes
I’ve been to that place and it is exhausting. Moving on is the solution but very much easier said than done.

Those BG readings are great and can’t you just see the benefit of regular testing? You’ll build up a bank of foods and ingredients (and quantities) that you can safely consume and then it all becomes easier.

I loved your update for us. As the old saying goes: keep b*ggering on :cool:
Thanks so much HB! I'm trying.

Yes definitely exciting to start putting it all together, seeing what works for me, what doesn't, with the help of regular before and after meal testing and of course exercise. It's almost as if a fog is lifting as it becomes clearer which foods to avoid, which make me feel ill/sleepy. For example, without divulging my medical concerns, I mentioned to someone a few weeks ago that I can't eat porridge for breakfast as it sends me to sleep. They said that's normal as it boosts serotonin a mood enhancing chemical. They suggested I eat it at night, two tablespoons, to help me go to sleep. I didn't think that would work for me either eating porridge just before bedtime so I haven't tried it. I always feel unwell in the morning if I eat something stodgy late at night or just before bedtime. It seems to just sit in my tummy all night going nowhere.

Besides I feel much safer here with the knowledge and advice given, as this community lives and experiences this condition everyday.

Good to know I'm not alone with the work/sleep problem. So thank you for virtually "holding my hand" and walking me through this maze. I'll get on top of this sooner or later!
 

MAC2020

Active Member
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At risk of diabetes
Hi everyone, hope you are all well enjoying this fabulous sunshine!

Just wanted to get some thoughts from you.

Yesterday, 1st August, I had some really odd, IMO, BG readings for breakfast. They were:

5.3mmol/L before breakfast @10:31am
4.8mmol/L 1hr after first mouthful!
5.4mmol/L 2hrs after first mouthful
Breakfast: 2 small slices of watermelon, 1/2 red grapefruit sprinkled & covered with soluble fibre, three strawberries and some cherries.

What is going on?! What does this mean? How can my BG go DOWN 1hr after eating, especially after eating fruit? Shouldn't it be going UP?!!
Why is it rising 2hrs later?

I don't understand. Can anyone help?
 

everydayupsanddowns

Administrator
Staff member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
What is going on?! What does this mean? How can my BG go DOWN 1hr after eating, especially after eating fruit? Shouldn't it be going UP?!!
Why is it rising 2hrs later?
I think it‘s worth bearing in mind, for all the illusion of decimal point accuracy, the limitations of home glucose monitors.

Legally they have to satisfy ISO accuracy standards of within +/-15% (and more accurate at lower levels), 95% of the time. 5% of the time they can read anything. There’s a table showing the ranges involved at the bottom of this section: https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/board...for-people-new-to-diabetes.10406/#post-938459

Essentially all your readings are ‘5ish’ so you’ve coped brilliantly with the fruit-based breakfast. Well done!

The body emits several phases of insulin during digestion. Some people find that their ‘first phase’ is impaired or absent and may spike up soon after eating, but then begin to come down by 2hrs after food. It looks like your metabolism was very happy with what you provided :)
 

MAC2020

Active Member
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At risk of diabetes
Thank you! Still trying to get my head around all this so am watching what my body is trying to teach me about food and carbs through BG readings. These numbers seemed odd, but I appreciate they may be fine afterall. Phew!
 

trophywench

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Well - what did your BG do in those circumstances before you were PD ?

You haven't got any idea of course and neither does anyone else for the simple reason nobody non diabetic tests their BG! However, the medical journals inform us all that everyone's BG varies all day and all night, should they ever bother to measure it, and this has actually been done to ordinary people by using a CGM device (Constant Glucose Monitor) which makes it simple and not uncomfortable for the guinea pigs being tested.

Hence it just proves that you are normal! :)
 

MAC2020

Active Member
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At risk of diabetes
Well - what did your BG do in those circumstances before you were PD ?

You haven't got any idea of course and neither does anyone else for the simple reason nobody non diabetic tests their BG!

Hence it just proves that you are normal! :)
Thanks Jen! Good to know.
 

MAC2020

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
At risk of diabetes
Morning everyone,

I'm feeling a little fragile and worried this morning so please forgive the questions!

1) Eating fruit.
I seem to be able to eat fruit for breakfast without the huge spikes e.g yesterday's readings were: bedtime previous night 5.4, yesterday waking 5.3, before breakfast 5.5, 1hr post 6.4, 2hr post 5.0. breakfast 2 slices watermelon, 1 clementine, 1 kiwi, 1 avocado, 1 miso soup, 1/2 lemon in hot water, total 50 carbs. It was a lot I know and as a result I will be eating much less for breakfast, halfing this carb intake to max 25g carbs for one sitting, but I also didn't need to eat again for 7hrs.

I notice on the "What I ate yesterday" discussion that many of you do not hardly eat any fruit if at all! Is this to lose weight? Should I also not be eating fruit to lose weight, or at least as much? Or could there be something wrong with my meter and strips? I wash my hands before each reading.

2) If I am getting normal-ish BG readings (eg 2nd August supper: before 4.8, 1hr post 5.7, 2hr post 5.6) does this mean my HbA1C will likely be normal or is it accounting additionally for the spikes I couldn't capture or record so I could still be PD or even D?

3) Monitor and strips.
I bought mine before I found this forum so haven't benefitted from one of the more affordable brands. My brand says that lancets are single use only. Is this true or can I use the same lancet multiple times? I read somewhere an Australian used their lancet until it was blunt! I also don't have a sharps bin. Is this necessary?

Thank you!
 

Eddy Edson

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Morning everyone,

I'm feeling a little fragile and worried this morning so please forgive the questions!

1) Eating fruit.
I seem to be able to eat fruit for breakfast without the huge spikes e.g yesterday's readings were: bedtime previous night 5.4, yesterday waking 5.3, before breakfast 5.5, 1hr post 6.4, 2hr post 5.0. breakfast 2 slices watermelon, 1 clementine, 1 kiwi, 1 avocado, 1 miso soup, 1/2 lemon in hot water, total 50 carbs. It was a lot I know and as a result I will be eating much less for breakfast, halfing this carb intake to max 25g carbs for one sitting, but I also didn't need to eat again for 7hrs.

I notice on the "What I ate yesterday" discussion that many of you do not hardly eat any fruit if at all! Is this to lose weight? Should I also not be eating fruit to lose weight, or at least as much? Or could there be something wrong with my meter and strips? I wash my hands before each reading.

2) If I am getting normal-ish BG readings (eg 2nd August supper: before 4.8, 1hr post 5.7, 2hr post 5.6) does this mean my HbA1C will likely be normal or is it accounting additionally for the spikes I couldn't capture or record so I could still be PD or even D?

3) Monitor and strips.
I bought mine before I found this forum so haven't benefitted from one of the more affordable brands. My brand says that lancets are single use only. Is this true or can I use the same lancet multiple times? I read somewhere an Australian used their lancet until it was blunt! I also don't have a sharps bin. Is this necessary?

Thank you!
Fruit: The only good reasons for avoiding fruit are (a) if you don't like it (b) if it spikes yr BG too much. You look just fine with it, which is excellent, because fruit generally is full of nutritional goodness. More broadly, there's no good reason for avoiding good carby food like fruit if you don't have to.

BG: Those BG numbers are completely "normal" and I'd be surprised if you're next HbA1c isn't "normal" also.

Lancets: A running gag here is that people change their lancets every year of St Swithin's day. I think some people change them a lot more often but I only change mine when I notice it getting a bit blunt.

Disposing of used strips and lancets: My doc said just throw them in the bin.
 

ColinUK

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Lancet manufacturers want to sell as many as possible and I’m sure that in some ways it is better to replace them after each use, but I try to think of the plastic pollution that causes so I keep mine going until I dial the depth up so much it’s in danger of coming out the other side of my finger!

I’d reckon I get probably three weeks minimum from a lancet and sometimes considerably more.
 

trophywench

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Yeah - I used to be in the once a year brigade but after 40 years bodging holes in my fingers, they're suffering.
 

MAC2020

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
At risk of diabetes
May i ask how long you've been on a vegan diet for?
Search YouTube for 'vegan diabetic diet'
There are lots of videos, plus the Links & Prompts
I haven't watched any of them, but perhaps they will be useful. Though as with anything on YT if there are lots of references & videos it can get a bit confusing, and you need to be a bit cautious
Good afternoon everybody,

Don't all shout at me at once :eek: but I just came across this Youtube 5min 41sec vid called "Can you beat Diabetes on a Vegan Diet?" and wondered what you all think? I haven't posted the video address/link as I'm not sure I am allowed to (moderator?)

I accept that the advice will not be for everyone as some T1s and T2s (and some in between) are thriving on their current dietary +exercise regime, so for them it may just be a lot of nonsense. No offence meant to anyone. Just interesting to hear your ideas and points of view!
 

Eddy Edson

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Good afternoon everybody,

Don't all shout at me at once :eek: but I just came across this Youtube 5min 41sec vid called "Can you beat Diabetes on a Vegan Diet?" and wondered what you all think? I haven't posted the video address/link as I'm not sure I am allowed to (moderator?)

I accept that the advice will not be for everyone as some T1s and T2s (and some in between) are thriving on their current dietary +exercise regime, so for them it may just be a lot of nonsense. No offence meant to anyone. Just interesting to hear your ideas and points of view!
Haven't watched the video but certainly it's possible to get to T2D remission with a vegan diet. Any behavioural change which sees you losing a stack of weight can work in lots of cases, and that's really a matter of restricting calories in versus calories burned. But keeping an eye on carbs is helpful also, and that can involve reducing grains in particular. Replace 'em with seeds! Far more nutritious, anyway.
 

everydayupsanddowns

Administrator
Staff member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
I am sure you can create a BG-friendly vegan diet as a T2 (which in the long term is what I think ‘beating diabetes’ or ‘remission’ or any of those buzzwords amount to) along with the positive effects of achieving any weight loss you need to.

My hands-on experience of cooking vegan family meals suggests it won’t necessarily be all that easy though, and getting the balance right between micro and macronutrients might need a bit of extra juggling.

Specifically because meat and eggs are essentially BG-neutral, tasty and filling... whereas creating vegan meals with good amounts of protein which are substantial can involve pulses, root veggies and other relatively high carb elements.
 

MAC2020

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
At risk of diabetes
So, is the whole point of testing (when waking, before meals and one or two hours after meals) to flatten the spike, using your fasting reading as a baseline?

And by eliminating those foods that raise the spike, you have improved diet and health, less likely to have complications due to diabetes and may even lose weight?

Is that correct?

Is it the "spike" that causes all the medical problems?
 

Drummer

Well-Known Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Not the fasting level, the pre meal level. Usually a meal which raises the BG by two or less is considered 'safe' - and numbers in single figures are desirable.
High BG means that your blood is not doing a good job, the glucose damages the inner surfaces of blood vessels, the body does all it can to restore normality but if you are always pushing the limits that is not good.
 

everydayupsanddowns

Administrator
Staff member
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Type 1
Is it the "spike" that causes all the medical problems?
There is certainly evidence that erratic BGs are more difficult for the body to cope with than nicely gentle ones, even if those are slightly higher than optimal.

There are also data that show that 2 identical HbA1c values can confer very different levels of risk if one is the result of very erratic BGs, and the other comes from gently undulating results.

However, high BGs, aren’t ideal in themselves either!

In general terms I think it is safest to assume that both consistently high BG, and very spiky BG are both worth avoiding if you can manage it!
 

MAC2020

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
At risk of diabetes
Thanks Mike and Drummer.

Whilst washing the dishes I wondered why the emphasis on keeping the meal rise below 3 or better 2mmol/L compared to BG at start of meal and for some reason this bell curve chart that the government kept showing came to mind and the phrase "flattening the curve so the NHS can cope with Covid-19 cases". So I wondered whether it was a similar thing with the body (NHS) being swamped by glucose (coronavirus cases) so it was best to keep the meal rise (Bell curve) under 2 (flattened) by isolating and removing carbs (lockdown).

Funny how my mind works! BTW I'm a mathematics and statistician by higher education, hmmm...:rolleyes:
 
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MAC2020

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
At risk of diabetes
I've had recent HbA1c result on Wednesday 12th August.

Given that my last reading in Feb 2019 was 42 and what with lockdown and everything else going on I was rather nervous that my number would be worse than the last time 18 months ago, but I also secretly hoped I'd be 40 or under since my last two weeks of meal rise was significantly less than 2, my waking BG was consistently under 5.5 and I had changed my sedentary lifestyle to regular daily walks.

My latest reading is 43 deemed normal no action by my GP but I could do better.

More work to do, up the exercise, lose weight, less carbs and more forensic scrutiny of my meal choices. Ho hum...:oops:
 

MAC2020

Active Member
Relationship to Diabetes
At risk of diabetes
Hi again,

Still consider myself a newbie as I only joined this forum less than 3 weeks ago, but let me know if/when I should stop posting here and post elsewhere or on General Messageboard!

Hello to those I saw at the Zoom meet, good to put voices and faces to the knowledge and text! And thanks again for the wisdom you impart on this forum for people like me who are trying to work their way through this condition.

So my numbers for today are:

3:30am in the morning BG was 5.1
Waking BG was 5.2
Went for walk for 1hr over 8K steps
Before 1st meal BG was 5.2. Then I ate a bowl of stir-fry with broccoli, mushrooms, tofu, garlic, avocado, EVOO etc.
Felt sleepy 20mins after meal so tested again, BG was 5.2 (not low enough for a hypo so why the fatigue?)
1hr after meal BG was 4.6
2hrs after meal BG was 5.8

The stir fry had very little carbs in it as confirmed (I think) by the BG readings. My question is, will eating less BG friendly food i.e. portion control, stop the fatigue, or is it just a matter of going for a walk after each meal before the fatigue sets in?

Thanks for reading
 

Docb

Moderator
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Looks to me that you have got past the newbie stage and should be heading for the other boards!
 
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