portion control - why so limiting?

[mcdonagh47]

I have to admire such a dry wit. Wallycorker following Barnard?

Unless there are two Johns using the nick Wallycorker on different diabetes forums I've known John for some years on a different forum. [/url]

John has done a marvellous job of gaining control of his diabetes, but not as a modification of Barnard's extreme vegan ideas.

oops, sorry if I misrepresentated Wallycorker - I was thinking of this thread in which he waxed lyrical about Barnard and found him "inspirational" ....Carina asked about Barnrad's book and Wally said ....( perhaps you missed it ?)

"I found the book a great read and very inspirational. I started off my improvement programme by largely following the guidelines in Dr Barnard's book. Things certainly happened to me just like it said they would in the book. For a while, I was eating an almost vegan diet."
Wallycorker 24/1/ 2010

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=5780

 

[Alan S]

oops, sorry if I misrepresentated Wallycorker - I was thinking of this thread in which he waxed lyrical about Barnard and found him "inspirational" ....Carina asked about Barnrad's book and Wally said ....( perhaps you missed it ?)

"I found the book a great read and very inspirational. I started off my improvement programme by largely following the guidelines in Dr Barnard's book. Things certainly happened to me just like it said they would in the book. For a while, I was eating an almost vegan diet."
Wallycorker 24/1/ 2010

http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=5780

I stand corrected. Thanks to you and Helen for that; now I'll wait for John to clarify my confusion.

 

[caffeine_demon]

actually - now I think about it - I have cut down bread at lunch to one slice, and don't feel as if I'm missing out - so no doubt I'll get used to it!

 

[wallycorker]

I think there's only one Wallycorker and maybe he will answer for himself, but here http://www.diabetessupport.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?t=1438
and in his even more fullsome Amazon review, he attributes at least part of his intial drop from an HbA1c in the 9s to one in the 5s to Barnard's book.

Yes - that is exactly right Helen,

It was Dr Neal Barnard's book that motivated me to get started with my improvement plan. I was eating a very low fat (almost vegan) diet for around the first six months or so - and getting major improvements in my blood glucose levels.

However, I started slimming by calorie counting at the same time and because of that I would have been eating less starchy carbohydrate too. Also, at the same time, I started testing and was adjusting my diet according to what my meter told me. It was around six months before I arrived at these diabetes forums on the internet and learnt about carbohydrate management and restriction.

Because of that, I couldn't say exactly what it was that led to my improvement - certainly, starchy carbohydrate restriction has helped tremendously.

I've just about arrived at the conclusion that the most important thing is to get rid of fat from the cells and organs just like Dr Barnard states - whatever it is that does that is most important. Maybe, it's a bit of both - i.e. reducing fat and carbohydrate intake.

I'm coming to the conclusion that triglyceride levels play an important part - particularly, the TG/HDL ratio. Certainly, people who eat lower levels of carbohydrate seem to get quite dramatic improvements in both blood glucose levels and triglyceride levels.

I'm happy with where I have arrived at no matter what did it. My pancreas seems to have started behaving quite normally again. I feel very lucky indeed!

Best wishes - John

 

[Alan S]

Yes - that is exactly right Helen,

It was Dr Neal Barnard's book that motivated me to get started with my improvement plan. I was eating a very low fat (almost vegan) diet for around the first six months or so - and getting major improvements in my blood glucose levels.

However, I started slimming by calorie counting at the same time and because of that I would have been eating less starchy carbohydrate too. Also, at the same time, I started testing and was adjusting my diet according to what my meter told me. It was around six months before I arrived at these diabetes forums on the internet and learnt about carbohydrate management and restriction.

Because of that, I couldn't say exactly what it was that led to my improvement - certainly, starchy carbohydrate restriction has helped tremendously.

I've just about arrived at the conclusion that the most important thing is to get rid of fat from the cells and organs just like Dr Barnard states - whatever it is that does that is most important. Maybe, it's a bit of both - i.e. reducing fat and carbohydrate intake.

I'm coming to the conclusion that triglyceride levels play an important part - particularly, the TG/HDL ratio. Certainly, people who eat lower levels of carbohydrate seem to get quite dramatic improvements in both blood glucose levels and triglyceride levels.

I'm happy with where I have arrived at no matter what did it. My pancreas seems to have started behaving quite normally again. I feel very lucky indeed!

Best wishes - John

G'day John - glad you dropped in to clear up my confusion. And nice to meet you again in a different place 🙂

 

[FM001]

Nice to hear from you again wallycorker. When you say ''My pancreas seems to have started behaving quite normally again'' do you mean you are back to eating a carbs in your diet? Seem to recall some of your last postings on another forum that when eating out you were enjoying naan bread and rice with your Indian food again and chips with your bar meals, is this how you know that your pancreas is working normal again? Hope you don't mind my asking-Toby.

 

[Andy HB]

I'm coming to the conclusion that triglyceride levels play an important part - particularly, the TG/HDL ratio. Certainly, people who eat lower levels of carbohydrate seem to get quite dramatic improvements in both blood glucose levels and triglyceride levels.

That's quite interesting to me because although by many standards my carb intake is still quite high, it is much lower than pre-diagnosis.

Since diagnosis, although my LDL cholesterol has remained stubbornly high, my triglyceride levels plummeted.

Andy 🙂

 

[Catwoman76]

the portion control thing is one of the areas I'm struggling with - I do have a huge appetite!!

the amounts shown at the desmond course today where REALLY small - the "large" bread roll was about a mouthful! and they said just 2 portions of fruit a day, and only 3 of veg. so - what does this leave to eat when your hungry?

I just know if I ate those amounts, I'd be starving again in about 20 minutes!

ultimately - if your BG is well controlled, and your weight is reducing at a healthy rate (or remaining steady if it's ok) - should portion size really be that important?

Hi I'm a big eater as well, always have been, because I'm always hungry so I would shrivell up and waste away :0 but I am type 1. Sheena

 

[Stella_Al]

Hi,

Am not diabetic but cook for one (hubby- type 2 on metformin)

Went with him to dietician a couple of years ago who said, generally (apart from our love of beer!) our nutrition was good......cept the portion size.

Problem is converting my hubby to smaller portions - did try it but he just feels hungry and has a couple of slices of bread after dinner (which sounds like its a terrible thing to do.)

Do usually add loads of extra veg + lentils etc (not a good idea with the metformin side effects - LOL!) but cant cut his portions too much or he;s on the bread again.

I dont think I can tell him tonight when he gets home he's got to lay off the rice too......he'll be devastated :-(

So look forward to any advice you get (cept the willpower one !!)

 

[wallycorker]

Nice to hear from you again wallycorker. When you say ''My pancreas seems to have started behaving quite normally again'' do you mean you are back to eating a carbs in your diet? Seem to recall some of your last postings on another forum that when eating out you were enjoying naan bread and rice with your Indian food again and chips with your bar meals, is this how you know that your pancreas is working normal again? Hope you don't mind my asking-Toby.

Hi Toby,

Yes - am eating a little more starchy carbohydrate these days - in particular, I eat chips if they come with a pub meal and maybe sometimes a jacket potato and I eat basmati rice in Indian restaurants. However, I steer well clear of naan bread other than when I eat just a bit if others around the table have chosen it. I might take a little bread too when eating in restaurants if it looks nice. Whenever I do any of this these days, it doesn't do anything much to my blood glucose levels even when I'm expecting that it will.

I still keep well clear of cereals of any kind and fairly well clear of bread and mashed potatoes.

Certainly, I don't ever do pasta for starter (with a shared garlic bread on the side) followed by a big pizza that I would have eaten in Italian restaurants in the past.

Largely, it's meat, fish and dairy for me with a wide variety of vegetables - cheese or fruit for dessert or snacks - quite a lot of pickled vegetables or salsa for snacks - sometimes mixed fruit and nuts too. Usually, red wine and sparkling water to drink plus a wide variety of teas and coffee both normal and decaff.

Ten years down the line since diagnosis and three months after coming off metformin medication altogether my last HbA1c taken in January was 5.5% - i.e. up very slightly from the 5.0% when I was taking metformin.

I'm a very happy man!

Best wishes - John

 

[wallycorker]

G'day John - glad you dropped in to clear up my confusion. And nice to meet you again in a different place 🙂

G'day to you too Alan. Thanks for the contribution that you have made to my improvement.

Hope the book goes well.

Best wishes - John

 

[FM001]

Hi Toby,

Yes - am eating a little more starchy carbohydrate these days - in particular, I eat chips if they come with a pub meal and maybe sometimes a jacket potato and I eat basmati rice in Indian restaurants. However, I steer well clear of naan bread other than when I eat just a bit if others around the table have chosen it. I might take a little bread too when eating in restaurants if it looks nice. Whenever I do any of this these days, it doesn't do anything much to my blood glucose levels even when I'm expecting that it will.

I still keep well clear of cereals of any kind and fairly well clear of bread and mashed potatoes.

Certainly, I don't ever do pasta for starter (with a shared garlic bread on the side) followed by a big pizza that I would have eaten in Italian restaurants in the past.

Largely, it's meat, fish and dairy for me with a wide variety of vegetables - cheese or fruit for dessert or snacks - quite a lot of pickled vegetables or salsa for snacks - sometimes mixed fruit and nuts too. Usually, red wine and sparkling water to drink plus a wide variety of teas and coffee both normal and decaff.

Ten years down the line since diagnosis and three months after coming off metformin medication altogether my last HbA1c taken in January was 5.5% - i.e. up very slightly from the 5.0% when I was taking metformin.

I'm a very happy man!

Best wishes - John

A very impressive HbA1c at 5.5 John considering you are off the meds and eating chips, rice and bread in your diet, it does appear your old pancreas has sprung back to life and long may this continue. Your good health-Toby.

 

[Andy HB]

A very impressive HbA1c at 5.5 John considering you are off the meds and eating chips, rice and bread in your diet, it does appear your old pancreas has sprung back to life and long may this continue. Your good health-Toby.

I am geniunely interested, John. What have the medical guys got to say about your pancreas?

It has been my understanding that once it's been knobbled, it stays knobbled. I was also given to understand that any improvement in type 2's would be more down to improved insulin sensitivity.

Can you clarify this please?

Andy 🙂

 

[everydayupsanddowns]

It has been my understanding that once it's been knobbled, it stays knobbled. I was also given to understand that any improvement in type 2's would be more down to improved insulin sensitivity.

Andy, it might be unrelated, but I read last year that several Joslin 50 year medallists (t1 for over 50 years) had been found to still be producing insulin. From what I remember tests indicated functioning beta cells were being created and then destroyed by the immune system on an ongoing basis.

Not sure if that has relevance to any T2 variants though.

 

[Andy HB]

Andy, it might be unrelated, but I read last year that several Joslin 50 year medallists (t1 for over 50 years) had been found to still be producing insulin. From what I remember tests indicated functioning beta cells were being created and then destroyed by the immune system on an ongoing basis.

Not sure if that has relevance to any T2 variants though.

It would fit though. If they can be created in T1's then why not in T2's?

I feel another question to my consultant in early march coming on! 🙂

 

[wallycorker]

.........I am geniunely interested, John. What have the medical guys got to say about your pancreas?
..........

My GP doesn't say very much at all other than register his amazement regarding the level of my improvement after ten years on from Type 2 diagnosis. When I'm in front of him he generally just looks at his monitor screen uttering words such as "amazing", "remarkable" etc.

At the DUK Northern Conference at Darlington a few months ago, I met one of the scientists from Newcastle University who had given a presentation of the work that they are carrying out on Type 2 bariatric patients. Basically, they have been restricting the patients' diets and measuring the reduction of fat in the liver and pancreas by use of magnetic resonance imaging scanners. They too are using words such as "reversal" and "cure" but they were still carrying out work yet to be published regarding what happened to the pancreas during this process.

You can read a little bit about their work here:

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/project/2854

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/

Also, their work links blood glucose levels and triglyceride levels:

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/project/2578

I have mentioned their work in earlier postings. Why not take a look it is very interesting stuff.

My situation seemed almost exactly like what was happening to their patients except that I haven't undergone bariatric surgery. However, I have recorded a very major weight loss by dieting using calorie counting.

Personally, I think that the scientists at Newcastle University have already gone a long way to understanding what happens in Type 2 diabetes and how it can be "reversed" or maybe even "cured".

 

[Andy HB]

Interesting stuff, John.

I will definitely have a read this evening.

Andy 🙂