Politicians May Be Guilty of 'Social Murder' in COVID Response

[Northerner]

Should anybody be blamed and punished for 2.2 million COVID-related deaths in the world?

An editorial in an influential British medical journal says politicians who didn't respond aggressively enough to control the coronavirus pandemic should be held responsible for those deaths, which the editorial says could be classified as "social murder."

"Politicians must be held to account by legal and electoral means, indeed by any national and international constitutional means necessary," wrote Kamran Abbasi, MD, the executive editor of BMJ.

Abbasi writes that the phrase "social murder" was coined by philosopher Friedrich Engels to describe the conditions created by privileged classes in 19th century England that "inevitably led to premature and ‘unnatural' death among the poorest classes."

Today, the phrase may describe "the lack of political attention to social determinants and inequities that exacerbate the pandemic," he writes.

"When politicians and experts say that they are willing to allow tens of thousands of premature deaths for the sake of population immunity or in the hope of propping up the economy, is that not premeditated and reckless indifference to human life?"

Politicians May Be Guilty of 'Social Murder' in COVID Response

An editorial in an influential British medical journal says politicians who didn't respond aggressively enough to control the coronavirus pandemic should be held responsible for those deaths.

www.medscape.com

 

[mikeydt1]

the trouble is they keep getting away with it. just look at how Ian Smith treated the sick and disabled and the deaths which resulted from the poor treatment the guy was never brought to justice and is still allowed to be an MP with a nice cosy mansion to go with it.

 

[Northerner]

the trouble is they keep getting away with it. just look at how Ian Smith treated the sick and disabled and the deaths which resulted from the poor treatment the guy was never brought to justice and is still allowed to be an MP with a nice cosy mansion to go with it.

Indeed We can see people forgetting already because the success of the vaccine rollout seems to be eclipsing the fact that gross mismanagement of the pandemic has resulted in thousands of avoidable deaths. Even now, nearly 12 months on, those most likely to be at risk, and least capable of self-isolating either due to living arrangements or low-income (often both) are not being supported fully. Consequently, many have continued to spread the virus, keeping infection levels high Untested people into care homes, almost useless test, track and isolate system, failure of ANYONE in government to take responsibility for anything, undermining public trust etc. etc. Mistakes were always bound to have been made, but repeating mistakes is unforgiveable. I think one of the most unfathomable things for me to understand is why no-one, at ANY point, appears to have thought to prepare a contingency plan for any of the likely scenarios the country might face. Why do thousands of school children still not have devices to study on? Why do we still not have any contracts with hotel chains for isolation purposes as though it's suddenly such a big surprise we might need to do what other nations have done for months? Always reacting, and therefore always too late and people suffer as a consequence

Rant over

 

[Contused]

<snip> just look at how Ian Smith treated the sick and disabled and the deaths which resulted… <snip>

Sir Iain Duncan Smith, presumably?

 

[Northerner]

Sir Iain Duncan Smith, presumably?

Took me a moment or two to register that!

 

[grovesy]

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that he used to be a plain Smith.

 

[Robin]

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that he used to be a plain Smith.

No, further back than that, his father's surname was Duncan Smith, but his paternal grandparents were a Smith and a née Duncan. (According to wikipedia anyway!).
Surprising. That was in 1914. I thought it was a more modern phenomenon to double-barrel both parents' surnames.

 

[Drummer]

I suspect, though, that at the times when there would have been most benefit from a really strict lockdown and isolation, quarantine, there would have been riots.
It is all very well looking back and calling decisions wrong, but hindsight is just that.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

I suspect, though, that at the times when there would have been most benefit from a really strict lockdown and isolation, quarantine, there would have been riots.

Maybe, but the government could easily have acted a week or two earlier. (Polling suggests the public is generally in favour of more restrictions rather than less.) And for isolation, the government ought to support it properly and then there's much less of a problem with the public. (Again, analysis suggests that people largely want to isolate, but feel unable.)

 

[grovesy]

No, further back than that, his father's surname was Duncan Smith, but his paternal grandparents were a Smith and a née Duncan. (According to wikipedia anyway!).
Surprising. That was in 1914. I thought it was a more modern phenomenon to double-barrel both parents' surnames.

Oh, I never looked into it , I just seen it been referenced somewhere.

 

[Docb]

If politicians are guilty of social murder then what are the people who elected them guilty of?

 

[grovesy]

I am thinking it is more unlikely, and if there is one this lot will be well gone!

 

[trophywench]

I suspect, though, that at the times when there would have been most benefit from a really strict lockdown and isolation, quarantine, there would have been riots.
It is all very well looking back and calling decisions wrong, but hindsight is just that.

No, common for a son, especially the eldest son, to also be given his mother's maiden name. Dunno if dad's sister had 2 christian names, but anyway just christian name(s) followed by granddad's surname whereas dad, was Alfred William Postlethwaite surname, as paternal grandma was a Postlethwaite.

He was born in either 1915 or 16, but that had been the case for generations previously and I don't think it ever fell by the wayside - has it?

 

[Sally71]

Anitram,

Very, very good point. There has been many doctors with contrary opinions about how the pandemic has been dealt with, but unfortunately many are gagged by the government who have made it clear to them that no NHS staff can discuss what goes on in hosptials with the public or media.

From the little bit I do understand about oaths. Doctors sign a "do no harm" oath when they qualify. How many of them can really stand by that oath now?

Did they have any choice though? When surrounded by sick and dying people and with not enough time/people/resources to save them all then impossible choices have to be made, and the most immediately life threatening cases are usually going to get priority. I'm sure no doctor ever wants to cancel or delay any treatments but if many urgent cases come in and there aren’t enough doctors to treat them all what choice do they have? They aren’t choosing to do harm!

 

[Northerner]

I suspect, though, that at the times when there would have been most benefit from a really strict lockdown and isolation, quarantine, there would have been riots.
It is all very well looking back and calling decisions wrong, but hindsight is just that.

My point was that they have not used past experiences to inform future ones. Repeating the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity And the public were very compliant with the first lockdown, people recognised the need to protect themselves and their families - even now it's only a vocal minority who do not see this 'greater good'. If we hadn't had restrictions hundreds of thousands more would have died

 

[Robin]

No, common for a son, especially the eldest son, to also be given his mother's maiden name. Dunno if dad's sister had 2 christian names, but anyway just christian name(s) followed by granddad's surname whereas dad, was Alfred William Postlethwaite surname, as paternal grandma was a Postlethwaite.

He was born in either 1915 or 16, but that had been the case for generations previously and I don't think it ever fell by the wayside - has it?

It was certainly common for the eldest to be given his mother’s maiden name as a middle name, but it wasn’t used publicly as part of the surname, turning it into a double barrel, surely? The child of Mr. Smith and Mrs. Smith, neé Jones would be John Jones Smith, but he’d be plain John Smith on the school register.

 

[Bruce Stephens]

Which sick and dying people are you refering to?

This is what it's like to be an intensive care unit nurse right now

Sometimes we come in to find a bed empty, and I don’t know if it’s because we’ve succeeded or we’ve failed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Robin]

Hi Bruce

Is that relevant to last March?

This one below is from last April. I certainly remember several hospitals at the time reporting they were critically low on oxygen flow from their centralised pipe system because of the sheer number of patients they had who required oxygen. It’s not just the physical number of beds, or wards, or even staff (though they were hard pressed for staff when doctors and nurses were falling sick with covid) that causes a crisis, but it’s also all the peripherals needed to treat extra patients.

Coronavirus: London hospital almost runs out of oxygen for Covid-19 patients

Incident at major hospital raises fears over pressure on supplies during pandemic

www.theguardian.com

 

[Drummer]

One thing which was criminal in my mind is that the care homes were 'robbed' of their usual supplies of equipment, taken for the NFS, so they saw a spread of the virus around the care homes and to the staff - in my area of the country there are lots of care homes and some of them have closed because there were too few people there, so they have amalgamated with others to try to stay viable.

 

[trophywench]

I have to say, last year there were various reports of DNRs having been added to different patient's medical records without any consultation whatever with their next of kin or even informing the NOK.

I thought this had been nipped in the bud - but not having had anyone close in hospital recently (for anything) admit that I do not actually know for a fact.