Oviva

[jacksprat]

Hi I need advice please, Apparently my Dr has assigned me to a new pioneering treatment for my diabetes with Oviva. On looking through the programme they have sent it is a very low calorie 800 cals for twelve weeks then reintroducing food for six weeks and monitoring for a year with the aim of reversing Diabetes. My question is why low calorie?, am I missing something here as my diabetic nurse at the same surgery gave me a low carb book two years ago explaining that was the way forward as Carbohydrates were the real danger to diabetics type 2. Now I am completely confused as I have followed the low carb plan (although not too rigidly but trying hard) and managed to lose about 3 stones. feel great so why would I switch to cereal bars shakes and soups. Is this a new treatment again Low calorie or what. Sorry forgot to say not on any medication as my diabetic nurse puts me on 2,000 a day metformin and when I see Dr he promptly takes me off it so unsure what to do next.

 

[EllsBells]

Firstly - welcome! Secondly, congratulations on your weight loss - you should feel rightly proud of that. Are you still on a journey to lose more weight? Low calorie can often mean low carbs by default because your consumption is so restricted. For some people, an 800 cal diet can lead to the pancreas resetting itself and 'reversing' your diabetes but I would have expected that your GP should have discussed this with you. There seems to be a bit of tug-of-war between your GP and DN.

 

[Ditto]

Hello and welcome. 🙂 If you do the 800 it should put you in remission and you hopefully might not be type 2 any more. Why does nobody ever offer me these things! 😉 Probably because they know I wouldn't be able to do it, still trying though, the fridge is full of SlimFast bottles!

 

[Eddy Edson]

Hi I need advice please, Apparently my Dr has assigned me to a new pioneering treatment for my diabetes with Oviva. On looking through the programme they have sent it is a very low calorie 800 cals for twelve weeks then reintroducing food for six weeks and monitoring for a year with the aim of reversing Diabetes. My question is why low calorie?, am I missing something here as my diabetic nurse at the same surgery gave me a low carb book two years ago explaining that was the way forward as Carbohydrates were the real danger to diabetics type 2. Now I am completely confused as I have followed the low carb plan (although not too rigidly but trying hard) and managed to lose about 3 stones. feel great so why would I switch to cereal bars shakes and soups. Is this a new treatment again Low calorie or what. Sorry forgot to say not on any medication as my diabetic nurse puts me on 2,000 a day metformin and when I see Dr he promptly takes me off it so unsure what to do next.

Worth reading up on the background to this approach, probably. Check the site of the lead reasearcher, Prof Roy Taylor at Newcastle University: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation

For many T2D's, the underlying prob is too much fat around the liver and pancreas, which results in (a) your underlying blood glucose levels being too high, eg elevated when you wake up regardless of how many carbs you've eaten and (b) your pancreas eventually not making enough insulin, contributing to high BG levels after eating. The solution, often, is to lose enough weight to clear the fat from yr liver and pancreas. Anyway, worked for me!

A low carb approach is fine but without losing weight it's main effect will be to reduce post-eating BG elevations, not so much the underlying too-high BG. By contrast, the weight-loss approach deals with the whole thing, and once you've cleared the internal fat, you don't have to keep restricting carbs - for a lot of people, not everyone.

 

[jacksprat]

Firstly - welcome! Secondly, congratulations on your weight loss - you should feel rightly proud of that. Are you still on a journey to lose more weight? Low calorie can often mean low carbs by default because your consumption is so restricted. For some people, an 800 cal diet can lead to the pancreas resetting itself and 'reversing' your diabetes but I would have expected that your GP should have discussed this with you. There seems to be a bit of tug-of-war between your GP and DN.

Yes I am still on a journey of weight loss, I would imagine another 2 stone would take me to about 91/2 stones which I think maybe ok for my 5 ft 2" frame. Unfortunately my Dr has never discussed diabetes in any shape or form apart from why have you put on so much weight and you don't need metformin, so the only things I know about diabetes is what my book from the nurse tells me. I have no idea about blood test readings as never been told so I bought myself a meter and test myself. I was very surprised that my Dr had put me forward for this program.

 

[jacksprat]

Worth reading up on the background to this approach, probably. Check the site of the lead reasearcher, Prof Roy Taylor at Newcastle University: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation

For many T2D's, the underlying prob is too much fat around the liver and pancreas, which results in (a) your underlying blood glucose levels being too high, eg elevated when you wake up regardless of how many carbs you've eaten and (b) your pancreas eventually not making enough insulin, contributing to high BG levels after eating. The solution, often, is to lose enough weight to clear the fat from yr liver and pancreas. Anyway, worked for me!

A low carb approach is fine but without losing weight it's main effect will be to reduce post-eating BG elevations, not so much the underlying too-high BG. By contrast, the weight-loss approach deals with the whole thing, and once you've cleared the internal fat, you don't have to keep restricting carbs - for a lot of people, not everyone.

Thanks for your detailed reply that explains a lot of things as my blood glucose levels are never below 7.6 first thing in the morning and my last low carb meal is at 6 pm. So I obviously still need to shift some more fat and hopefully that will resolve early morning readings a bit many thanks.

 

[jacksprat]

Hello and welcome. 🙂 If you do the 800 it should put you in remission and you hopefully might not be type 2 any more. Why does nobody ever offer me these things! 😉 Probably because they know I wouldn't be able to do it, still trying though, the fridge is full of SlimFast bottles!

Rather you than me hate slimfast shakes etc but thanks for your reply, perhaps it's worth a try then.

 

[EllsBells]

Hmmm - is your GP aware of your weight loss to date? Something doesn't sound right and, in your shoes, I would recommend contacting the GP to find out what is going on. Great that you started testing yourself. Knowledge is power. You're doing really well without the Metformin, and given its tendencies to cause gastric upset, don't be too bothered about not taking it, from what I gather.

Your numbers only seem to be slightly elevated. What exercise are you doing as muscles burn more glucose up (as I am discovering).

 

[jacksprat]

Hmmm - is your GP aware of your weight loss to date? Something doesn't sound right and, in your shoes, I would recommend contacting the GP to find out what is going on. Great that you started testing yourself. Knowledge is power. You're doing really well without the Metformin, and given its tendencies to cause gastric upset, don't be too bothered about not taking it, from what I gather.

Your numbers only seem to be slightly elevated. What exercise are you doing as muscles burn more glucose up (as I am discovering).

Yes I had to have the slow release metformin as the standard one made me sick all day, and no my Gp has no idea as I have not seen him since January 2020 when I was at my heaviest. I started walking two or three times a week at the beginning of lockdown and would love to know what else to try,

 

[Leadinglights]

Have you had a recent HbA1C as this would help to know if your low carb regime and weight loss which is fantastic by the way has helped.
You say you walk 2-3 times a week but how far are you going, maybe you could you increase that to everyday as that is going to help as well as keeping a good eye on your carbs. If you have been doing it a while it is easy to become complacent about how much you are having and things can drift a bit. You have a monitor so you could recheck some of your meals again to see if your tolerance to the carbs has changed.

 

[jacksprat]

My fitbit watch says today I have done 8.49 miles "),000 steps and used 1,984 calories but if this is to be believed I should be like twiggy I think lol I was out for just over 2 hours though. Is the HbA1C a blood test as my last phone call from the nurse said my sugar was down to 45 from 49 if this is the right thing you mean. I will start and test 2hours after food again to check it's not too high although the morning ones are the most worrying I feel and the terrible night sweats of course.

 

[Leadinglights]

My fitbit watch says today I have done 8.49 miles "),000 steps and used 1,984 calories but if this is to be believed I should be like twiggy I think lol I was out for just over 2 hours though. Is the HbA1C a blood test as my last phone call from the nurse said my sugar was down to 45 from 49 if this is the right thing you mean. I will start and test 2hours after food again to check it's not too high although the morning ones are the most worrying I feel and the terrible night sweats of course.

That is pretty good going for the walking so you are not exactly slacking. The result from your nurse does sound as if it is your HbA1C so 45mmol/mol puts you now in the prediabetic zone, 49 would have been just in the diabetic range as over 48. So you are doing well in your progress, you need to be below 42 to be under the prediabetic range. So continuing with what you have been doing will hopefully get you there. You should be starting to see a reduction in any symptoms.

 

[jacksprat]

That is pretty good going for the walking so you are not exactly slacking. The result from your nurse does sound as if it is your HbA1C so 45mmol/mol puts you now in the prediabetic zone, 49 would have been just in the diabetic range as over 48. So you are doing well in your progress, you need to be below 42 to be under the prediabetic range. So continuing with what you have been doing will hopefully get you there. You should be starting to see a reduction in any symptoms.

Many thanks I didn't know any of those numbers so I will continue and try to get under 42 then, I think I will give oviva a miss and carry on my way letting someone else have the place.