Over The Top...

[Gildersleeve]

I know it comes down to carbs but...
I purchased my first cartons of unsweetened soy and almond milk. Now waiting to see if they get a or Neither has any sugar.

I did not buy today but in a specialist section of the supermarket I found a white loaf of bread.

Approx £2 which was lower in sugar than many wholemeal loaves. And for £3.80 a very healthy wholemeal loaf with containing good ingredients and still pretty low sugar levels. I will consider them next time that I shop.

 

[Leadinglights]

I know it comes down to carbs but...
I purchased my first cartons of unsweetened soy and almond milk. Now waiting to see if they get a or Neither has any sugar.

I did not buy today but in a specialist section of the supermarket I found a white loaf of bread.

Approx £2 which was lower in sugar than many wholemeal loaves. And for £3.80 a very healthy wholemeal loaf with containing good ingredients and still pretty low sugar levels. I will consider them next time that I shop.

Check the carbohydrate rather than the sugar, there are many things that are low sugar but still high in carbs. e.g breakfast cereal puffed wheat 0.6g sugar per 100g but a whopping 66g carbs.

 

[Gildersleeve]

You are starting to put things into perspective for me. I am reading this to mean. Even if the sugar reading appears good...too high a carbohydrate reading means that your body is doing more hard work than it needs to. So it probably does more harm than the quoted sugar number. Technically meaning the information on the packet is misleading.

The other original guide used to be in the list of ingredients the nearest sugar was to the top it was not good.

 

[Martin.A]

@Leadinglights is right. My example - a grab bag of Walkers crisps has 0.2g of sugar - pretty low, eh? But is has 24g carbohydrate, more than the 19g I had for my tea today, and that was a full-blown meal of Salmon Steak, celeriac chips, carrots and green beans.

 

[Gildersleeve]

You know what...if I get the carbohydrate understood there could be every possibility my diet and variety of food will be less restrictive than I fear. A great example. Thanks.

 

[Theo]

Well I was so pleased that I joined this forum when I did because I like many others when advised blood sugars were higher than usual immediately thought I had to reduce sugars . It was only reading all the good advice on here that I realised that watching carbs are the important thing. So I carefully look at the carb content and adjust my diet accordingly. I do feel strongly that the whole diabetes thing is very misleading and instead of pushing everything as being low sugar which people new to all this go for as I did . They should talk more about the carb content and stress the importance of low carb. I have actually taken photos as examples when in supermarkets of various products that all advertise low sugar but then packed with carbs. I’m going to show the nurse when I go back to put my point across.

 

[rebrascora]

You are starting to put things into perspective for me. I am reading this to mean. Even if the sugar reading appears good...too high a carbohydrate reading means that your body is doing more hard work than it needs to. So it probably does more harm than the quoted sugar number. Technically meaning the information on the packet is misleading.

The other original guide used to be in the list of ingredients the nearest sugar was to the top it was not good.

Actually, I see it as more the other way around than the paragraph I highlighted in your post above.
For those with Type 2 diabetes, you kind of want to be making it harder for the body to obtain that glucose from food, so that it hits the blood stream more slowly and therefore your insulin response is able to manage it better. So, for example, sugar hits the blood stream very quickly 10-20 mins from eating, but all carbs break down relatively quickly and spike your BG (blood glucose) levels high usually within about an hour but it should be coming down by 2 hours. It takes quite a lot of insulin to deal with that sudden initial spike and bring it down. 100% of carbohydrate (excepting fibre which is indigestible carbohydrate) breaks down into glucose, so all carbs that are listed here in the UK on food labels release 100% of their glucose and do so relatively quickly. So the more carbs you eat, and the more finely processed they are, the bigger the spike usually is and the more insulin it needs.
If you don't eat enough carbs, the body starts to break down protein and fat to make glucose, because glucose is the fuel that all cells need. This process is much harder and much longer and only about 40% of protein and 10% of fat can be broken down into glucose. This only starts happening about 2 hours after eating and continues for 6-8 hours, but because it is releasing glucose very slowly, and at a much lower level, the body is better able to produce enough insulin to deal with it, because it needs less, plus it actually uses energy to convert the protein and fat to glucose, so this can help with weight loss as well as diabetes. This is a simplification of the mechanism by which a low carb or keto diet helps you lose weight and helps you manage your BG. So instead of spikes and troughs in your BG levels, you get more rolling hills. Less variability in BG levels is believed to lead to less risk of complications, so rolling hills are better that peaks and troughs that look like mountains or church spires.

I imagine this is hard for you to imagine since you will not have seen a BG graph but I have photographed a couple of my Libre graphs to try to demonstrate it a bit, although being low carb, I try to keep my BG spikes below 10 but when first diagnosed they went up to 15 or more on a daily basis and then came plunging back down to about 5, so they were very spikey....I am Type 1 so it is slightly different because I have to inject my insulin rather than use the insulin a pancreas produces but hopefully you will be able to see the difference....



I am not sure if that helps very much but hopefully it gives you an idea of what we are talking about. One is very up and down and the second one meanders more with less spikiness.
Don't worry about the red bits on the first graph. I had a couple of minor hypos but Libre exaggerates them. 🙄

 

[EMcKT]

Well I was so pleased that I joined this forum when I did because I like many others when advised blood sugars were higher than usual immediately thought I had to reduce sugars . It was only reading all the good advice on here that I realised that watching carbs are the important thing. So I carefully look at the carb content and adjust my diet accordingly. I do feel strongly that the whole diabetes thing is very misleading and instead of pushing everything as being low sugar which people new to all this go for as I did . They should talk more about the carb content and stress the importance of low carb. I have actually taken photos as examples when in supermarkets of various products that all advertise low sugar but then packed with carbs. I’m going to show the nurse when I go back to put my point across.

Agree. Talking to a friend this week who has been diagnosed as pre diabetic. She doing well , keeping an eye on the sugar content on the back of packaging!!!!!! Absolutely no idea that it should be carbs she should be looking for. I suggested she bought the carb and calorie counter and read it. Same surgery as mine but she has no interest in Google so has never looked for anything. Tried to explain and point her in the correct direction......

 

[Gildersleeve]

Actually, I see it as more the other way around than the paragraph I highlighted in your post above.
For those with Type 2 diabetes, you kind of want to be making it harder for the body to obtain that glucose from food, so that it hits the blood stream more slowly and therefore your insulin response is able to manage it better. So, for example, sugar hits the blood stream very quickly 10-20 mins from eating, but all carbs break down relatively quickly and spike your BG (blood glucose) levels high usually within about an hour but it should be coming down by 2 hours. It takes quite a lot of insulin to deal with that sudden initial spike and bring it down. 100% of carbohydrate (excepting fibre which is indigestible carbohydrate) breaks down into glucose, so all carbs that are listed here in the UK on food labels release 100% of their glucose and do so relatively quickly. So the more carbs you eat, and the more finely processed they are, the bigger the spike usually is and the more insulin it needs.
If you don't eat enough carbs, the body starts to break down protein and fat to make glucose, because glucose is the fuel that all cells need. This process is much harder and much longer and only about 40% of protein and 10% of fat can be broken down into glucose. This only starts happening about 2 hours after eating and continues for 6-8 hours, but because it is releasing glucose very slowly, and at a much lower level, the body is better able to produce enough insulin to deal with it, because it needs less, plus it actually uses energy to convert the protein and fat to glucose, so this can help with weight loss as well as diabetes. This is a simplification of the mechanism by which a low carb or keto diet helps you lose weight and helps you manage your BG. So instead of spikes and troughs in your BG levels, you get more rolling hills. Less variability in BG levels is believed to lead to less risk of complications, so rolling hills are better that peaks and troughs that look like mountains or church spires.

I imagine this is hard for you to imagine since you will not have seen a BG graph but I have photographed a couple of my Libre graphs to try to demonstrate it a bit, although being low carb, I try to keep my BG spikes below 10 but when first diagnosed they went up to 15 or more on a daily basis and then came plunging back down to about 5, so they were very spikey....I am Type 1 so it is slightly different because I have to inject my insulin rather than use the insulin a pancreas produces but hopefully you will be able to see the difference....
View attachment 30645
View attachment 30646

I am not sure if that helps very much but hopefully it gives you an idea of what we are talking about. One is very up and down and the second one meanders more with less spikiness.
Don't worry about the red bits on the first graph. I had a couple of minor hypos but Libre exaggerates them. 🙄

I can see what you are trying to illustrate. Technically you are trying not to overload the body with extra calories which means the system is working harder. Struggling. May not succeed in getting rid of. Which adds weight. A vicious circle. This way it's working on what is already stored. It even ties in with recent trends regarding various fasting diets.

Even if everything was working as it should it makes sense to not overwork the process.

I am tempted to say there should be some kind of education or explanation out there at school or somewhere to try and head off problems down the line.

Food programmes offering nutritional advice or telling you what to eat on TV or Radio or receipe/food magazines don't seem to bother.

You have to wait for books to hit the shelves or someone like the deceased Dr. Michael Mosley who was able to explain things in simple terms to be given programmes like his R4 series. Just one Thing. It shows that it can be done.

 

[Leadinglights]

It is easy to think, Type 2 everybody follow this diet and all will be hunky dory. Not necessarily so because everybody is different in how their body copes with carbohydrates. For some not all carbs are equal. People report that they can cope with 20g of carb if it is from bread but not if rice or pasta but for others it will be the other way round, no one size fits all which is why some of the advice handed out by the NHS just does not work for some people.
That is the value of testing your meals as you can find out what suits YOU, not only what foods should be avoided but those which you may have rejected may be perfectly fine.
Thinking of carbs rather than calories unless you are opting for one of the low calorie approaches rather than low carb.

 

[rebrascora]

Yes, many of us find it easier to just focus on carbs and ignore calories.
Some people focus just on calories ie. they follow the Newcastle/Fast 800 calorie diet and don't worry about carbs.
To me keeping track of both is hard work and if you go low enough carb you generally don't need to worry about calories.

Personally, low carb agrees with my body on lots of levels, not just diabetes, so I really do not worry about calories at all. If I start putting on a bit of weight I might cut back on the cream in my morning coffee and cheese and exercise more but I generally eat low carb, plenty of salad and veggies and enough protein and fat to keep me from feeling hungry, which means sticking to it for life is sustainable and I don't feel deprived. Plus there have been so many other health benefits to low carb.

 

[Martin.A]

some of the advice handed out by the NHS just does not work for some people.

If anyone has a one-size-fits-all mindset it's probably the NHS, which is all the more surprising when you consider that NICE guidelines say that it should adopt an individualised approach to T2 diabetes care that is tailored to each person's needs and circumstances.

 

[Gildersleeve]

A fair point.

Which suggests if they would change their mindset...we would be better off and in turn because we would be better informed we could avoid creating problems later for the NHS time wise and financially.

Not unlike the attitude that everyone on benefits are "scroungers" everyone's circumstances are as individual as each person. The same is obvious with diabetes. I see this after only being here a few days.

The wrongly held opinion of someone with diabetes I suspect is everyone is lazy. Over eats. Only eats junk food. Many here know that isn't so.