Novopen Smart Pens & New Librelink Version 2.8.4 that resolves compatibility issues between Librelink & Android OS 13

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BadaBing

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
I have recently (at the direction of Abbott Customer Services and contrary to the email instructions sent by Abbott on 23 February 2023) uninstalled the previous version of Librelink (2.8.2) and then installed the new version (2.8.4) of Librelink.

I am still not sure if low and high glucose alarms are working on my phone. However, that isn't my question.

I've noticed following installation of Librelink 2.8.4 I have had to re-register my smart insulin pens in Librelink 2.8.4. After re-registering my pens, when I scanned the pens against my phone's NFC to upload yesterday's insulin doses I received a message indicating that every "air shot" and dose of insulin I have made using my pens was going to be re-entered in Librelink for a second time. And the previous data, which I have edited painstakingly over months to differentiate between "air shots" and actual dosages, is completely unedited.

I always assumed when dosages from the Novopens are transferred to Librelink that the data on the corresponding smartpen is deleted so that it cannot be uploaded a second time to Librelink or Libreview

It seems my assumption was wrong.

I need to check Libreview to see if all of my pen dosages have been double entered.

Has anyone else who uses smartpens and who has in the last few days uninstalled Librelink version 2.8.2 and installed (rather than updated) version 2.8.4 of Librelink noticed the same issue? Have they been able to resolve this problem?

Thanks.
 
BadaBing said:
I need to check Libreview to see if all of my pen dosages have been double entered.
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I've not uninstalled LibreLink but I did something that's probably equivalent: I started using a new phone. And I can confirm that a whole lot of old doses on Libreview are now doubled. Which is a bit annoying. (On my new phone they show up OK so I think LibreView is combining the data from the two phones.)
 
Which is particularly dumb because on LibreView it lists the pens (with their serial numbers) as separate data sources being combined into the report. Time to make a bug report, I think...
 
Sorry to hijack the thread. How useful are you finding those pens as opposed to entering the data manually. Are they worth the investment?
 
Carlos said:
Sorry to hijack the thread. How useful are you finding those pens as opposed to entering the data manually. Are they worth the investment?
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In my opinion for recording the information they're not really worthwhile. (Even before this bug there's the air shot annoyance.) However, I find it really reassuring to know that I can look and see if I took that dose that I thought I took and confirm the amount (even though I rarely do that).

If you use Novonordisk insulins (Novorapid, Levemir, etc.) the smart pens are what you'll get anyway (presuming you don't want disposable pens).
 
Carlos said:
Are they worth the investment?
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That's a question for the NHS, and I think they've decided they're OK with it. I don't think they cost that much more than the older reusable pens (which are no longer being sold anyway).
 
Carlos said:
Are they worth the investment?
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I should have been more direct: these are normal prescribable items. If you want one (or more) you should talk to your GP. (Or your hospital team, if you aren't sure your GP will get it all right without a letter.)
 
Bruce Stephens said:
I've not uninstalled LibreLink but I did something that's probably equivalent: I started using a new phone. And I can confirm that a whole lot of old doses on Libreview are now doubled. Which is a bit annoying. (On my new phone they show up OK so I think LibreView is combining the data from the two phones.)
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I have just checked finally Libreview and discovered that every insulin dose (both so called "flow checks" and actual doses injected have been added to together.

I don't believe it was like that before the new Librelink update (version 2.8.4).

I could weep! I've spent time over the last few months differentiating between flow checks and doses injected.

First Librelink stops providing low or high glucose alarms (and I still don't know if the alarms are working now following installing Librelink 2.8.4). And now this!

What upsets me most is that my DSN and my Consultant access Libreview remotely when I need them to to make recommendations (sometimes via email or telephone between normal appointments) about increasing or lowering my insulin. The smart pen insulin data in Libreview de facto now makes no sense and makes my diabetes team's job more difficult.

Am I going to have the same thing happen again every time I have to uninstall Librelink (2.8.4 or a future version) and reinstall Librelink? Or when - as you have done - move to a new phone?

I've contacted Abbott and Novo Nordisk and asked them if this can be fixed. Until then I might as well just enter insulin doses into Librelink manually like I was before I got the so called smartpens.
 
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Bruce Stephens said:
In my opinion for recording the information they're not really worthwhile. (Even before this bug there's the air shot annoyance.) However, I find it really reassuring to know that I can look and see if I took that dose that I thought I took and confirm the amount (even though I rarely do that).
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Until Abbott and/or Novo Nordisk prove otherwise, I agree with what @Bruce Stephens has said.
 
Bruce Stephens said:
I should have been more direct: these are normal prescribable items. If you want one (or more) you should talk to your GP. (Or your hospital team, if you aren't sure your GP will get it all right without a letter.)
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I think the fact of the matter is if anyone needs a new insulin pen that takes Novo Nordisk disposable insulin cartridges your GP, DSN, consultant can now only prescribe the Novopen 6 or the Novopen Echo Plus as Novo Nordisk has discontinued making previous models.

And yes, the cost of the new smartpens is more or less the same as the old insulin pens.
 
I have the non smart version of the pens on prescription. They're just under three years old, so as there doesn't seem to be a knock out benefit from moving onto the smart models I'll just wait until the current ones need replacing.

Thank you all for your help.
 
Carlos said:
They're just under three years old, so as there doesn't seem to be a knock out benefit from moving onto the smart models I'll just wait until the current ones need replacing.
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Probably not that much. Though as I said, I find it helpful occasionally to check the last dose just to make sure I gave it (or haven't given it yet), and it's very reassuring knowing that I can do that (even though I mostly don't).
 
BadaBing said:
The smart pen insulin data in Libreview de facto now makes no sense and makes my diabetes team's job more difficult.
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Yes, in my case it looks like my insulin usage halved overnight. Fortunately nobody apart from me is looking. (The hospital team have permissions to look but they've said they're not going to outside of some consultation.)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1629477490795110403
 
BadaBing said:
I have just checked finally Libreview and discovered that every insulin dose (both so called "flow checks" and actual doses injected have been added to together.

I don't believe it was like that before the new Librelink update (version 2.8.4).

I could weep! I've time over the last few months differentiating between flow checks and doses injected.

First Librelink stops providing low or high glucose alarms (and I still don't know if it is working now following installing Librelink 2.8.4). And now this1
Click to expand...

It’s pretty disappointing isn’t it.

I’m not sure how this can have got through release testing?

If you are going to launch smart devices and integrated systems, the folks making them (and then updating them!) have to understand in pretty minute detail what makes the information useful and/or useless :(
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
It’s pretty disappointing isn’t it.

I’m not sure how this can have got through release testing?

If you are going to launch smart devices and integrated systems, the folks making them (and then updating them!) have to understand in pretty minute detail what makes the information useful and/or useless :(
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I am a product owner at a software company, I never cease to be amazed at the obvious bugs that get introduced because "we didn't touch that area, so we don't need to test there". Agile methodologies have brought many benefits, but also its share of problems.
 
everydayupsanddowns said:
It’s pretty disappointing isn’t it.

I’m not sure how this can have got through release testing?

If you are going to launch smart devices and integrated systems, the folks making them (and then updating them!) have to understand in pretty minute detail what makes the information useful and/or useless :(
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I'm waiting for Abbott and Novo Nordisk to come back to me on this, but at the moment this is an awful bit of kit.

I know nothing about computer programming but I refuse to believe it is impossible for Novopen and Librelink to communicate with each other so that data which has already been transferred once from Novopen to Librelink/Libreview is never transferred a second, third, etc time.

I'm wondering whether the MHRA licenced this integrated system, and if it did, what the specific parameters of the authorisation were. I assume it isn't authorised solely so diabetics can check how long it was since they last injected insulin.
 
Carlos said:
I am a product owner at a software company, I never cease to be amazed at the obvious bugs that get introduced because "we didn't touch that area, so we don't need to test there". Agile methodologies have brought many benefits, but also its share of problems.
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I am absolutely dumbfounded if what you say is true and two healthcare behemoths' R&D departments simply won't have thought collectively "maybe it would be sensible for data that's been transferred once from pen to Librelink/Libreview not to be transferred a second time."

Even if they missed it the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency shouldn't have.

The insulin data stored in my Libreview account since I've been using the pens is no better than gibberish now.
 
BadaBing said:
I am absolutely dumbfounded if what you say is true and two healthcare behemoths' R&D departments simply won't have thought collectively "maybe it would be sensible for data that's been transferred once from pen to Librelink/Libreview not to be transferred a second time."

Even if they missed it the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency shouldn't have.

The insulin data stored in my Libreview account since I've been using the pens is no better than gibberish now.
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One of the problems is that developers often just write code based on a spec, they don't use the software they write (unless they happen to be diabetic for this case), and more worrying, they don't understand what the software does and why it does it.

I agree that this particular case is rather surprising, as being a regulated domain I would have expected test coverage to be exhaustive.

In this particular case I don't think Novo has any responsibility. It is the Abbott app that is messing up.
 
BadaBing said:
I know nothing about computer programming but I refuse to believe it is impossible for Novopen and Librelink to communicate with each other so that data which has already been transferred once from Novopen to Librelink/Libreview is never transferred a second, third, etc time.
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With LibreLink that's what happens. I presume it keeps some timestamp for each pen for the last dose it's read.

I'm not sure storing that on LibreView would make so much sense. If I were doing it and had enough space in the database, I think I'd mark each dose with the serial number for the pen that produced it and just discard duplicate doses. (Presuming they do have each dose stored like that that's something they can do after the event. Actually, just knowing there are two identical doses of the same insulin at the same minute is likely sufficient: that doesn't happen.)
 
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