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Not so Newbie, more prodigal son seeking a fatted calf...

LCB

Member
Relationship to Diabetes
Type 2
Hi all. I'm returning after a long absence of discovery, action and inaction. Basically I'm type 2, diagnosed around 2005 at which time I registered here, then a long voyage from "it'll never impact me that badly" to "Oh b*gger". Since that enlightenment, I've applied what I've surmised and learnt to get better control. Thankfully all appendages intact, but not without some light damage to my eyes and my IQ has dropped from what I remember as 180+ to a lower level. Yes, sadly the brain has capillaries too. When I started my working life I was taught and understood the calculation of shock waves from supersonic aircraft flight (wing profiling). There were no computers. Nowadays the logic of the Chancellor is beyond my comprehension. Is that just me?
It occured to me in early 2023 that:
a) I'm insulin resistant
b) my blood sugars by consequence are substantial and uncontrolled.
c) Sugars induce the pancreas to create insulin
d) As they are not dissipated the pancreas continues with excess insulin creation.
e) The body can convert carbohydrates to fat and, via the liver, more sugar.
So, I am now following a fairly strict Keto lifestyle. This is not for weight loss but this is a happy byproduct. This is my second year.
My meds started with two slow release Metformin and four Gliclazide. My wake-up call was being told I was being put on insulin without options. Basically I left that surgery and hence took to Keto. I measured up to 10 times a day for better understanding and control. As my BS dropped below 4 mmol twice in a row, I dropped a Gliclazide. Before Christmas I was down to a single Gliclazide and the two Metformin. I was in discussion with my new surgery regarding how to approach the Metformin reduction.
Then the generosity of my family kicked in (lunch, under the tree) and duty kicked in and I'm back on two Gliclazide and fighting my blood levels back down.
I now come to a question to those who have had the stamina to get this far in my missive...
I was recently stopped from prescription test strips for my trusty Aga-Matrix meter, and given a Fine test Lite. This morning I tested and, despite the long overnight fast, had a level of 13.0 mmol. I immediately tested again and just those few seconds later my blood dropped to 10.8. I'm not dead yet so I'm guessing there's a meter/strip inaccuracy at play, well outside the recommended standard.
When the BS gets down to 4 or less I need accuracy and confidence in my equipment.
I'm thinking of self-funding a Sinocare Accu2
Any recommendations? That is, beyond the inevitable people who state I shouldn't try to fix myself, just follow the routine given by NHS indoctrination based on what is written in black and white, albeit published prior to the incredible advances made in the last decade.
Sorry for the cynicism but the same diabetic nurse that insisted I must be on insulin insisted that my recommended diet must be predominantly carbohydrate based and that I must eat breakfast even if I wasn't hungry. For those who were unaware, the axiom "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was reportedly originally coined by the American John Kellog when launching his new product - Cornflakes.

Anyway, congratulations to anyone who has read this far, to me for the patience to type it all on a mobile phone, and to my wife who's been sat patiently whilst I did.

Time for a cuppa - no sugar
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi @LCB and welcome back. I like your avatar. I am still a relative newbie but have received plenty of support and information from the kind folks on this forum.
As I understand it, you do need some carbs to work with either gliclazide or insulin. How much is very individual and your testing regime should confirm what works for you.

I am currently using the Aga matrix wave which is working fine for me. I don't know about the other model.

Does foot on the floor syndrome affect your BG much? Hopefully someone with more experience will be along with some useful information and suggestions.
 
I'm thinking of self-funding a Sinocare Accu2

I think we may have a forum member or two who have tried Sinocare, but I can’t quite recall who!

Two meters which are frequently recommended here (and which have affordable strips), are the Spirit Tee2, and the Contour Blue.

Regarding meter accuracy, this table from the Useful Links thread shows the upper and lower permitted results according to the new ISO standard. You can see it gets quite a bit wider as levels increase, and if your BG had been 12.0, both readings you got would have been within tolerance:


BG meter accuracy
It can be quite disconcerting for members new to self monitoring of blood glucose to get different results from BG readings taken close together, even when carefully following manufacturers guidance (washing hands etc). All meters for sale in the UK should comply with the following ISO standards 95% of the time, which allows a degree of variation (and 5% of results can read anything at all). If in any doubt, or if a reading doesn’t match how you are feeling, you should check again with a fresh strip.
Permitted blood glucose meter variation, upper and lower bounds, from range of BG results
 
Just to add: Sinocare meters have coincidentally been mentioned in another recent thread here:

 
Ah, @LCB, somebody else who used to do hard sums no doubt with a mechanical calculating machine, which, if you were very fortunate, could do division. Otherwise it was the trusty slide rule. You could always get a good enough answer.

One of the first things I did when I got a meter was to find out how reproducible the readings were by testing all 10 digits one after the other. From that I got a mean and a standard deviation which gave me a 95% confidence interval on the mean. It was around 1.2 mmol/l if I recall correctly. From then, I have refused to quote single readings unless rounded to the nearest whole number.

You could try the same on your current meter and the one destined to replace it and see just how reproducible they are. I doubt the differences will be statistically significant.
 
Hi all. I'm returning after a long absence of discovery, action and inaction. Basically I'm type 2, diagnosed around 2005 at which time I registered here, then a long voyage from "it'll never impact me that badly" to "Oh b*gger". Since that enlightenment, I've applied what I've surmised and learnt to get better control. Thankfully all appendages intact, but not without some light damage to my eyes and my IQ has dropped from what I remember as 180+ to a lower level. Yes, sadly the brain has capillaries too. When I started my working life I was taught and understood the calculation of shock waves from supersonic aircraft flight (wing profiling). There were no computers. Nowadays the logic of the Chancellor is beyond my comprehension. Is that just me?
It occured to me in early 2023 that:
a) I'm insulin resistant
b) my blood sugars by consequence are substantial and uncontrolled.
c) Sugars induce the pancreas to create insulin
d) As they are not dissipated the pancreas continues with excess insulin creation.
e) The body can convert carbohydrates to fat and, via the liver, more sugar.
So, I am now following a fairly strict Keto lifestyle. This is not for weight loss but this is a happy byproduct. This is my second year.
My meds started with two slow release Metformin and four Gliclazide. My wake-up call was being told I was being put on insulin without options. Basically I left that surgery and hence took to Keto. I measured up to 10 times a day for better understanding and control. As my BS dropped below 4 mmol twice in a row, I dropped a Gliclazide. Before Christmas I was down to a single Gliclazide and the two Metformin. I was in discussion with my new surgery regarding how to approach the Metformin reduction.
Then the generosity of my family kicked in (lunch, under the tree) and duty kicked in and I'm back on two Gliclazide and fighting my blood levels back down.
I now come to a question to those who have had the stamina to get this far in my missive...
I was recently stopped from prescription test strips for my trusty Aga-Matrix meter, and given a Fine test Lite. This morning I tested and, despite the long overnight fast, had a level of 13.0 mmol. I immediately tested again and just those few seconds later my blood dropped to 10.8. I'm not dead yet so I'm guessing there's a meter/strip inaccuracy at play, well outside the recommended standard.
When the BS gets down to 4 or less I need accuracy and confidence in my equipment.
I'm thinking of self-funding a Sinocare Accu2
Any recommendations? That is, beyond the inevitable people who state I shouldn't try to fix myself, just follow the routine given by NHS indoctrination based on what is written in black and white, albeit published prior to the incredible advances made in the last decade.
Sorry for the cynicism but the same diabetic nurse that insisted I must be on insulin insisted that my recommended diet must be predominantly carbohydrate based and that I must eat breakfast even if I wasn't hungry. For those who were unaware, the axiom "Breakfast is the most important meal of the day" was reportedly originally coined by the American John Kellog when launching his new product - Cornflakes.

Anyway, congratulations to anyone who has read this far, to me for the patience to type it all on a mobile phone, and to my wife who's been sat patiently whilst I did.

Time for a cuppa - no sugar
Welcome back to the forum, yes you should have a reliable way of testing your blood glucose and as you are taking gliclazide your GP should be prescribing one and test strips as you are on a medication (assuming you are still taking it) which could cause low blood glucose.
If you are following a keto dietary approach then that could be a risk as very low carb/keto is not advised if taking gliclazide though the suggested around 130g carbs per day is usually OK for people and some do go lower but they have established that is OK for them by testing.
 
It occured to me in early 2023 that:
a) I'm insulin resistant
b) my blood sugars by consequence are substantial and uncontrolled.
c) Sugars induce the pancreas to create insulin
d) As they are not dissipated the pancreas continues with excess insulin creation.
e) The body can convert carbohydrates to fat and, via the liver, more sugar.

Hi @LCB

BTW do you know of Prof Roy Taylor's 'Twin Cycle Hypothesis'?
 
Ah, @LCB, somebody else who used to do hard sums no doubt with a mechanical calculating machine, which, if you were very fortunate, could do division. Otherwise it was the trusty slide rule. You could always get a good enough answer.

One of the first things I did when I got a meter was to find out how reproducible the readings were by testing all 10 digits one after the other. From that I got a mean and a standard deviation which gave me a 95% confidence interval on the mean. It was around 1.2 mmol/l if I recall correctly. From then, I have refused to quote single readings unless rounded to the nearest whole number.

You could try the same on your current meter and the one destined to replace it and see just how reproducible they are. I doubt the differences will be statistically significant.
Thanks Docb
Unfortunately home blood sugar measurement is, and cannot be, an accurate science with these meters. There are too many variable influences from levels of peace and quiet (fight or flight inputs), through rest strip sterility, to local test site levels as sugars are released through the bodies bloodstream. Repeatability is the key input I'm looking for, or more specifically, confidence in that repeatability. It can be inaccurate; as long as I can relate it to my physiology. I can relate my records to the HbA1c levels when tested to understand where it sits with accuracy.
 
The issue some people have reported on the forum with the Sinocare is that they get a false low/hypo reading when they don't get enough blood on the test strip instead of an error message and some people have got into a panic thinking they were hypo and ended up eating lots of sweet stuff to try to bring their levels up, when they didn't need to, which of course is contrary to good diabetes management, so technically harmful rather than beneficial.

The Gluco Navii, Spirit Health Tee2 and the Contour Plus Blue are most frequently recommended by people on the forum for being reliable and cost effective for self funding. However, it sounds like you are perhaps expecting more accuracy from your current prescribed meter than they are capable of. A lot of people have difficulty getting their head around the whole issue of accuracy with both BG meters and CGM (Constant Glucose Monitors) and sometimes you just have to put it out of your mind and just accept the number it gives you +/- about 1mmol, unless it is wildly different from what you expect in which case a retest is in order.
 
I think we may have a forum member or two who have tried Sinocare, but I can’t quite recall who!

Two meters which are frequently recommended here (and which have affordable strips), are the Spirit Tee2, and the Contour Blue.

Regarding meter accuracy, this table from the Useful Links thread shows the upper and lower permitted results according to the new ISO standard. You can see it gets quite a bit wider as levels increase, and if your BG had been 12.0, both readings you got would have been within tolerance:


BG meter accuracy
It can be quite disconcerting for members new to self monitoring of blood glucose to get different results from BG readings taken close together, even when carefully following manufacturers guidance (washing hands etc). All meters for sale in the UK should comply with the following ISO standards 95% of the time, which allows a degree of variation (and 5% of results can read anything at all). If in any doubt, or if a reading doesn’t match how you are feeling, you should check again with a fresh strip.
Permitted blood glucose meter variation, upper and lower bounds, from range of BG results
Wow, thanks for this... Very interesting...
Some will understand the difference between tolerance based on the indicated reading and tolerance based on full scale deflection (FSD). This shows somewhere inbetween.
If there was an FSD reading (20) of +/- 3, that would mean the tolerance for '1' would be -2 to +4. Meanwhile, the indicated reading tolerance at 20 is shown as +/- 3/20*100 = 25% whereas at 1 is shown as +/- 0.87/1*100 = 87%. I'd be interested to see the tolerance logic behind it. Sounds like a board meeting rather than a calculated degree of confidence?
Thanks Docb
Unfortunately home blood sugar measurement is, and cannot be, an accurate science with these meters. There are too many variable influences from levels of peace and quiet (fight or flight inputs), through rest strip sterility, to local test site levels as sugars are released through the bodies bloodstream. Repeatability is the key input I'm looking for, or more specifically, confidence in that repeatability. It can be inaccurate; as long as I can relate it to my physiology. I can relate my records to the HbA1c levels when tested to understand where it sits with accuracy.
By the way, I found to my confused cost early last year; the use of lotions and potions for skin care can wildly impact results. Suffering with dry skin, as is common, needs careful planning if remedies are used.
 
Hi @LCB I use a Sinocare Safe AQ Smart BG meter and I have not had any material problems with it. It reads my BG like the Clearsens one I also have from my local surgery and while they report different results this is normally +/- 1mmol/L. I have also checked both against my Libre2 sensors used in the past, and they both aligned reasonably well with the readings that had.
 
I think we may have a forum member or two who have tried Sinocare, but I can’t quite recall who!

Two meters which are frequently recommended here (and which have affordable strips), are the Spirit Tee2, and the Contour Blue.

Regarding meter accuracy, this table from the Useful Links thread shows the upper and lower permitted results according to the new ISO standard. You can see it gets quite a bit wider as levels increase, and if your BG had been 12.0, both readings you got would have been within tolerance:


BG meter accuracy
It can be quite disconcerting for members new to self monitoring of blood glucose to get different results from BG readings taken close together, even when carefully following manufacturers guidance (washing hands etc). All meters for sale in the UK should comply with the following ISO standards 95% of the time, which allows a degree of variation (and 5% of results can read anything at all). If in any doubt, or if a reading doesn’t match how you are feeling, you should check again with a fresh strip.
Permitted blood glucose meter variation, upper and lower bounds, from range of BG results
Wow, thanks for this... Very interesting...
Some will understand the difference between tolerance based on the indicated reading and tolerance based on full scale deflection (FSD). This shows somewhere inbetween.
If there was an FSD reading (20) of +/- 3, that would mean the tolerance for '1' would be -2 to +4. Meanwhile, the indicated reading tolerance at 20 is shown as +/- 3/20*100 = 25% whereas at 1 is shown as +/- 0.87/1*100 = 87%. I'd be interested to see the tolerance logic behind it. Sounds like a board meeting rather than a calculated degree of confidence?
The issue some people have reported on the forum with the Sinocare is that they get a false low/hypo reading when they don't get enough blood on the test strip instead of an error message and some people have got into a panic thinking they were hypo and ended up eating lots of sweet stuff to try to bring their levels up, when they didn't need to, which of course is contrary to good diabetes management, so technically harmful rather than beneficial.

The Gluco Navii, Spirit Health Tee2 and the Contour Plus Blue are most frequently recommended by people on the forum for being reliable and cost effective for self funding. However, it sounds like you are perhaps expecting more accuracy from your current prescribed meter than they are capable of. A lot of people have difficulty getting their head around the whole issue of accuracy with both BG meters and CGM (Constant Glucose Monitors) and sometimes you just have to put it out of your mind and just accept the number it gives you +/- about 1mmol, unless it is wildly different from what you expect in which case a retest is in order.
Hi Barbara, I agree - repeatability is key. If it's repeatable, the accuracy can be calculated against the regular HbA1c records and compensation applied as necessary.
 
I was recently stopped from prescription test strips for my trusty Aga-Matrix meter, and given a Fine test Lite. This morning I tested and, despite the long overnight fast, had a level of 13.0 mmol. I immediately tested again and just those few seconds later my blood dropped to 10.8. I'm not dead yet so I'm guessing there's a meter/strip inaccuracy at play, well outside the recommended standard.
Just a comment about meters, I had a lot of problems with mine, Gluco Rx Nexus, but I found that it was either that I hadn't washed my hands properly, or that the lancing device was faulty. I now use the Accu Check Fastclix, and wash and dry my hands carefully.
 
Amazon is inundated with sellers...
...and they're cheap!

I ended up with one due to both those reasons. However I've now replaced that unit with a GlucoNavii as it will ultimately end up even cheaper to run (One of those occasions when Amazon is not the best value option. Same goes for Dexcom scanners).

Shopping at HomeHealth can work out a lot cheaper, especially if you are UK based. Not only are the strips generally cheaper, but they offer VAT exemption and also have further discount codes available.:


 
...and they're cheap!

I ended up with one due to both those reasons. However I've now replaced that unit with a GlucoNavii as it will ultimately end up even cheaper to run (One of those occasions when Amazon is not the best value option. Same goes for Dexcom scanners).

Shopping at HomeHealth can work out a lot cheaper, especially if you are UK based. Not only are the strips generally cheaper, but they offer VAT exemption and also have further discount codes available.:


I am finding that the more research I do, the more confusing thisgets. I found HomeHealth, and as you say, they seem good value. They also sell some of the recommended units which are not available on Amazon (yet the test strips are?).
As I'm trying to reduce my carbs and still taking Gliclazide, I need to regularly monitor, so use a lot of test strips. Before Christmas my bloods were predictable on 1 Gliclazide. I was struggling to get low enough to stop that final one. My mmol values being between 5 and 8 depending on time of day and when I ate. After the carb relaxation over Christmas I'm now 8 to 13 so back on an intense regime with lots of testing. Hence I use lots of strips and as I live on a Narrowboat, I need a good and regular supply... Amazon fits that, with differing pick-up points as we travel, any feedback on HomeHealth with that in mind?
Hi @LCB and welcome back. I like your avatar. I am still a relative newbie but have received plenty of support and information from the kind folks on this forum.
As I understand it, you do need some carbs to work with either gliclazide or insulin. How much is very individual and your testing regime should confirm what works for you.

I am currently using the Aga matrix wave which is working fine for me. I don't know about the other model.

Does foot on the floor syndrome affect your BG much? Hopefully someone with more experience will be along with some useful information and suggestions.
Hi Fran,

Thanks for your support...

As you are probably aware, zero carbs is an impossibility unless I were to stop eating. I try to keep strictly to foods with less than 4g carbohydrate (ignoring 'of which sugars') with all foods. I will not eat ultra-processed foods, preferring to cook and create my own with known content. Still difficult though as often the labelling is generic. Red Peppers for instance have varying sugar content depending on genus but will have the same labelling. I do eat some foods (such as red peppers) in smaller quantities. I work on the premise that whilst Glycemic Index tells me how a food is loaded with sugar, it's the Glycemic Load which relates to my sugar intake. You need some treats in life 😱)

I find the cost of aga matrix strips a bit high. So do the NHS and hence they no longer support it, locally anyway.

Feet on the floor is a new one on me? It reminds me of the Hollywood censorship doctrine where bedroom scenes stated that one foot of each participant must be on the floor so hanky-panky was a non-event. How times have changed now we have the internet.

It also brings visions of hanging by my feet in a door frame hanger so eating is a non-event. Explain please?

Thanks aqain,

Lewis
 
I am finding that the more research I do, the more confusing thisgets. I found HomeHealth, and as you say, they seem good value. They also sell some of the recommended units which are not available on Amazon (yet the test strips are?).
As I'm trying to reduce my carbs and still taking Gliclazide, I need to regularly monitor, so use a lot of test strips. Before Christmas my bloods were predictable on 1 Gliclazide. I was struggling to get low enough to stop that final one. My mmol values being between 5 and 8 depending on time of day and when I ate. After the carb relaxation over Christmas I'm now 8 to 13 so back on an intense regime with lots of testing. Hence I use lots of strips and as I live on a Narrowboat, I need a good and regular supply... Amazon fits that, with differing pick-up points as we travel, any feedback on HomeHealth with that in mind?

Hi Fran,

Thanks for your support...

As you are probably aware, zero carbs is an impossibility unless I were to stop eating. I try to keep strictly to foods with less than 4g carbohydrate (ignoring 'of which sugars') with all foods. I will not eat ultra-processed foods, preferring to cook and create my own with known content. Still difficult though as often the labelling is generic. Red Peppers for instance have varying sugar content depending on genus but will have the same labelling. I do eat some foods (such as red peppers) in smaller quantities. I work on the premise that whilst Glycemic Index tells me how a food is loaded with sugar, it's the Glycemic Load which relates to my sugar intake. You need some treats in life 😱)

I find the cost of aga matrix strips a bit high. So do the NHS and hence they no longer support it, locally anyway.

Feet on the floor is a new one on me? It reminds me of the Hollywood censorship doctrine where bedroom scenes stated that one foot of each participant must be on the floor so hanky-panky was a non-event. How times have changed now we have the internet.

It also brings visions of hanging by my feet in a door frame hanger so eating is a non-event. Explain please?

Thanks aqain,

Lewis
Foot on the floor or Dawn phenomenon are variations of the same biological function. Your liver will release extra glucose into your bloodstream to give you energy first thing in the morning. Can happen early hours (3am ish) hence dawn. Or as soon as you get out of bed, foot on the floor. This often means your reading of the day will be higher than your usual pre-meal levels.
I think it's an ancestral function from the days when we had to forage and hunt for food so needed the energy boost.
 
I'm in love and you can have my children... both of them; If you need incentive they're both out of the dependency stage...

Just watched that, twice on the trot. Already surmised most of it from other research over the last two years, but so much more learned. I wondered why my trigs are through the roof yet my cholesterols so low. Statins don't seem to do anything.

I remember this being reported as a dubious interest story some years back, which since seemed to disappear into obscurity. There was feedback at the time that the 'extreme' (600 kcal at that time?) diet was too much risk for most people and any attempts should be under direct and continuous medical supervision. I need to find out more, particularly about the risks and beneficial aspects of coming off of the drugs before indulging. I've bought his book. I'm nothing if not a cautious information hunter-gatherer...

Thanks so much 😱)

Lewis
 
Amazon fits that, with differing pick-up points as we travel, any feedback on HomeHealth with that in mind?
This seems like a a unique enough situation that it's probably better contacting HH directly.

How many times a day will you be testing?
 
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