Non-Diabetic Levels

[FM001]

Reading around diabetes discussion forums, there is a lot of people who strive to reduce their blood glucose to what they refer to as 'non-diabetic levels', which I find hard to get my head round sometimes. As someone who tries to keep my bg and hba1c as low as possible, I could never say that I am trying to achieve 'non-diabetic levels' as I am a diabetic, my body doesn't work how it use too, and will never function the same as it did pre-diabetes. We may find ways to reduce our bg's by using insulin, medication or diet, but we cannot hope to achieve the same results as someone without diabetes.

Does anyone else find this 'non-diabetic levels' statement a little silly?, given that we are diabetics, and for the time being at least, until there is a cure of sorts, nothing will change that.

 

[C*5_Dodger]

Have a look at whaly corker's posts

Reading around diabetes discussion forums, there is a lot of people who strive to reduce their blood glucose to what they refer to as 'non-diabetic levels', which I find hard to get my head round sometimes. As someone who tries to keep my bg and hba1c as low as possible, I could never say that I am trying to achieve 'non-diabetic levels' as I am a diabetic, my body doesn't work how it use too, and will never function the same as it did pre-diabetes. We may find ways to reduce our bg's by using insulin, medication or diet, but we cannot hope to achieve the same results as someone without diabetes.

Does anyone else find this 'non-diabetic levels' statement a little silly?, given that we are diabetics, and for the time being at least, until there is a cure of sorts, nothing will change that.

Dear toby,

I agree with your sentiments but do regard non diabetic levels as a target. If you look at whally's posts you will find that he is achieving fasting BSs in the range 4.4 to 4.7 and is shooting for an HbA1c of less than 5%. I don't think many of us can achieve his levels but as you say lets hope for a cure. 🙂

Regards Dodger

 

[Andy HB]

I've just done a bit of reading and it seems to suggest that HbA1c for non-diabetics is in the range of 3.0 to 6.5%.

Consequently, anyone who achieves an HbA1c below 6.5% can be said to be in the non-diabetic range. Anyone in the 5%'s are well in there!

Now, once in the 5%'s, I do wonder whether it is healthy to keep trying to reduce it further? Wouldn't it be better to just accept what happens given the sensible diet you would already have to be eating to achieve that level?

Andy

 

[sandy]

Provided I eat sensibly my levels are non-diabetic. If I let myself go then the levels creep up. This shows I can control it but reminds me that I do have D.

 

[FM001]

I've just done a bit of reading and it seems to suggest that HbA1c for non-diabetics is in the range of 3.0 to 6.5%.

Consequently, anyone who achieves an HbA1c below 6.5% can be said to be in the non-diabetic range. Anyone in the 5%'s are well in there!

Now, once in the 5%'s, I do wonder whether it is healthy to keep trying to reduce it further? Wouldn't it be better to just accept what happens given the sensible diet you would already have to be eating to achieve that level?

Andy

Thanks for all replies to date. Andy, I have to agree with what you are saying with regards to the hba1c of 5's. I can't see the need to lower this further when a normal fasting range in someone without diabetes can be in the 4's and 5's, perhaps it would be better to settle for this figure and be content. I know as a type 1, I would not want to be lower than mid 5's as I wouldn't want to sacrifice my hypo awareness syptoms for the sake 0.5-1%. Often you will find that those who lower their blood glucose to low, they ultimately loose their hypo warnings, I don't think this is something I would want to trade.

 

[rawtalent]

Hi Toby,
I like your thinking.
At present i find it hard to get my hbA1c much better than below 5.5 - 6. I believe if i was retired from work it would be possible to reduce it further but in my opinion that would mean devoting a disproportionate amount of my time thinking about longevity and not much else. There's more to life than that. Wow, what a contradiction in terms! 'there's more to life than longevity'. I think i'll make that my catchphrase.

 

[FM001]

Hi Toby,
I like your thinking.
At present i find it hard to get my hbA1c much better than below 5.5 - 6. I believe if i was retired from work it would be possible to reduce it further but in my opinion that would mean devoting a disproportionate amount of my time thinking about longevity and not much else. There's more to life than that. Wow, what a contradiction in terms! 'there's more to life than longevity'. I think i'll make that my catchphrase.

I like that one 'more to life than longevity', I'll make a note of that in my book for future reference!🙂 Your hba1c of 5.5-6 is fantastic, I don't see the need to reduce that any further and run the risk of frequent hypo's. I would imagine when some people try to strive to obtain what they refer to as 'non-diabetic levels' it must take hard work, but also very time consuming, and I for one couldn't allow the time and devotion this must take. It would be interesting to know if there is any difference in someone developing complications whether there hba1c is in the high 4's, or in the mid 5's.

I was told some time back by my specialist that the greatest achievements in minimizing risks and complications is when you reduce your hba1c by 1% when you have been running figures above the recommended guidelines of 7.5, so at what point do the gains out way the risks I wonder when lowering blood glucose to far?

Thanks.

 

[Adrienne]

Hi Toby

You will notice that everyone bar Rawtalent who replied to you has type 2. (not saying this is wrong of course so please no-one take this the wrong way). I'm not sure that any of the type 1's on here would have ever said they were striving to get non diabetic levels. It is nigh on impossible when on insulin injections. You can achieve great levels but you will always get the odd mishap.

I think the idea is that if you are type 2 and you can reach these lower non diabetic levels then you can in theory come off medication and be diet treated which is a great thing of course. For a type 1 this will never happen, its insulin all the way.

I would never describe striving to get to non diabetic levels, my daughter has type 1 and it would be fab if she was in range but she can never reverse her type 1 as potentially a type 2 could.

They are just my thoughts anyway. 🙂

 

[rawtalent]

Very good point Adrienne.
That's the problem with type 1. There's only so much you can do with current treatments. to lower hbA1c.
The other important factor of course is trying to avoid wide fluctuation. Having an hbA1c of say 5.2 (my last result) is great but not if it's the result of numerous 1.5 levels and 12 plus levels which bring about this 'average' over time. Averages are exactly that. And we know what Disraeli said about statistics? ' There are lies, damn lies and then statistics'.

 

[Adrienne]

This is very very true. The HbA1c is only a tiny bit about control. My daughter's last one was 7.8%, we have worked damned hard to get down to that and I know that it is not at 7.8% due to too many highs and lows, I know it because of not too bad levels. So we are trying to get even better levels to bring that down. So I know its a good thing but another friend whose child has a result of 6.9% we know is not good because it was too many hypos !!

🙂

 

[rawtalent]

Sounds like yours is doing very well and stable, which is important. I'm sure you'll get the hbA1c even lower. Lower hbA1c combined with a good level of stability is a much better combination i think and leads to a better quality of life as well.

 

[FM001]

Hi Toby

You will notice that everyone bar Rawtalent who replied to you has type 2. (not saying this is wrong of course so please no-one take this the wrong way). I'm not sure that any of the type 1's on here would have ever said they were striving to get non diabetic levels. It is nigh on impossible when on insulin injections. You can achieve great levels but you will always get the odd mishap.

I think the idea is that if you are type 2 and you can reach these lower non diabetic levels then you can in theory come off medication and be diet treated which is a great thing of course. For a type 1 this will never happen, its insulin all the way.

I would never describe striving to get to non diabetic levels, my daughter has type 1 and it would be fab if she was in range but she can never reverse her type 1 as potentially a type 2 could.

They are just my thoughts anyway. 🙂

I agree Adrienne, I wouldn't use this term either as a type 1, but there are some that do. As our pancress has malfunctioned, it is impossible that we can regulate our blood glucose the same as someone who doesn't have diabetes. Only by increasing meds or restricting carbs to the bare minimum, and monitoring bg's to a point where it controls your whole life, can we hope to achieve similar results. There is also the prospect (more type 1's) that hypo's will become more frequent, and as a result hypo awareness syptoms become less and less prominent. At the end of the day, 'non-diabetic levels' or not, we still have diabetes.

Thanks

 

[FM001]

Very good point Adrienne.
That's the problem with type 1. There's only so much you can do with current treatments. to lower hbA1c.
The other important factor of course is trying to avoid wide fluctuation. Having an hbA1c of say 5.2 (my last result) is great but not if it's the result of numerous 1.5 levels and 12 plus levels which bring about this 'average' over time. Averages are exactly that. And we know what Disraeli said about statistics? ' There are lies, damn lies and then statistics'.

That's a good point about hba1c, it doesn't rule out the lows. This is why when patients present themselves at clinics with low hba1c's, the consultants believe that the person must be having frequent hypo's, I don't agree entirely with this, but it is how they work. As a type 1, I couldn't wish to obtain figures in the 4's without the risk of hypo's, and wouldn't want to loose my hypo awareness symptoms in the bargain.

Thanks again.