Newly diagnosed (33F) intermittent fasting.

[lizk]

Hi everyone, I found out in October that I have type II diabetes. I had gestational diabetes with both of my daughters in 2011 and 2013 and my dad (72) has type II so thought I might develop it in my 50s or 60s and with blazé abandon, carried on as normal. I was a bit over weight (BMI 26), but active and so ate what I wanted. LOTS of carbs and LOTS of sugar morning til late at night, but kidded myself I was ok because I ate plenty of veg too. I was terrified at diagnosis (fasting bm of 14.8 and Hba1c of 75) and after losing my mum to cancer in 2010, I became hugely anxious I was going to die and leave my girls without their mum. I think it was a combination of shock of diagnosis and also cutting out sugar cold turkey. I went a bit mad to be honest and was very emotional and scared. I’ve started to feel lots better now and have lost just over a stone, cut out all obvious sugar and carbs and am fasting 18/6. I’m also taking 3x500g Metformin, but would love to reduce or come off that eventually. Early days though I know. Odd fasting bms have been encouraging (some 7s, a 12, and a 4.3 once!) and am having my hba1c repeated in January. I’m desperate for it to have decreased! Determined to change my lifestyle and diet for my health and my girls’ health. Sorry to have rambled, but it feels nice to have found people who might understand. Particularly I would love to hear from people with similar initial bmi (I was worried I didn’t have enough weight to lose to make a big difference to my sugars) who have been able to get their sugars under control. Also, any info or advice greatly received from anywhere!

Thanks so much. Liz x

 

[Drummer]

I don't quite get the connection to weight - diabetes is all about blood glucose. If you can keep your blood glucose levels in the normal range by cutting out or reducing the foods which cause you to spike after eating then you should see your Hba1c in the normal range pretty quickly.
If you need to maintain rather than lose weight, just eat more of the foods you can cope with.
Take a few test after meals to see what you are achieving now.
The usual time is two hours after starting to eat. I only have two meals a day, but eat morning and evening as that seems to give me better numbers.

 

[lizk]

Hi, thanks for your reply. From what I’ve read weight loss is a key factor in potentially ‘reversing’ type II diabetes. Alongside of course adjusting my diet and when I’m eating to instantly keep my blood sugar levels within normal ranges, my understanding is that weight loss is shown to help increase sensitivity to insulin. I’ve done some post meal readings 2 hours after eating too and they’ve been going in the right direction. Just wondering if losing weight from a BMI of 26 had been done by anyone and had helped them.

 

[Eddy Edson]

Hi Liz - I had BMI around 27 at diagnosis, fasting BG 15.4 and HbA1c of 89. So pretty similar to you!

I got the D-beast under control in ~6 months by cutting out obvious c**p, then self-testing to work out what & how many carbs I needed to reduce in the short-term, and losing a bunch of weight.

Weight loss is a powerful tool, very often, even if you're not "obese", as flagged by every credible authority. It improves insulin sensitivity, and for T2's commonly the most important piece of this is improving liver insulin sensitivity => lower overnight/waking/"baseline" BG levels; via clearing fat from your liver. But also post-eating insulin sensitivity and BG levels, via improving muscle insulin sensitivity.

Anyway, I ground off about 10 kg weight which got me down to "normal" levels and kept going because I started to enjoy being skinny 🙂 Now at BMI around 20, no longer particularly carb restructed, last HbA1c was 27 - but I think that was a bit of an anomaly, expect it to something in the lower 30's when I next have it done in a fe weeks.

That's just me - everybody's different and YMMV, but there's every reason to hope for getting the D-beast under control with a bit of focus on a strategy which works for you.

 

[Martin9]

Hi @lizk , I was where you are around a year and a half ago , ii was a bit overweight BMI 28, HbA1c @77 but I was a bit older at 56 yrs old.
Through a combination of losing weight bringing my BMI down to 24.5 , upping gentle exercise, adopting a LCHF diet and 3x500mg Metformin I was down to an HbA1c of 35 within 3 months of my diagnosis , where it has stayed at 35 or under over the past year since, I’m awaiting a recent HbA1c test result tomorrow after reducing my Metformin to 2x daily over the past 3 months.
So it is possible doing what you have already done, and continue to do, to reduce your BG levels not only to prediabetic levels but to normal levels.
As @Eddy Edson says above there is clearly documented evidence that weight loss helps with BG control, especially losing the internal visceral fat surrounding the liver & pancreas, the good news is during weight loss that this is the first to go...
In summary you seem to be doing everything you should be and I would be surprised if you didn’t significantly reduce your initial numbers, having said that were all different ..
Good luck & regards
Martin.

 

[lizk]

@Eddy Edson @Martin9 thank you so much guys. These are exactly the positive things I wanted to read. I was panicking that I didn’t have a large enough amount to come down by, but when I really honestly looked at what I was eating and the erratic way I was eating it and when, I had huge changes to make. It sounds like you have both done amazingly well and I hope to do the same. I’ll update you with my latest hba1c in January. Thank you so much. x

 

[lizk]

@Martin9 Good luck with your latest HbA1c result. x

 

[Martin9]

Will let you guys know how I do tomorrow, after my reduced Metformin for past 3 months, I’m a bit nervous about it as I’m not sure I’ve been as strict with diet as I have been in the past ...🙄

 

[Eddy Edson]

@Eddy Edson @Martin9 thank you so much guys. These are exactly the positive things I wanted to read. I was panicking that I didn’t have a large enough amount to come down by, but when I really honestly looked at what I was eating and the erratic way I was eating it and when, I had huge changes to make. It sounds like you have both done amazingly well and I hope to do the same. I’ll update you with my latest hba1c in January. Thank you so much. x

You might want to have a look at Prof Roy Taylor & others' work on T2 diabetes remission via weight loss: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#direct

The initial "DiRECT" trial showed good results at 2 years for obese T2D's and they are currently running a new trial, "ReTUNE", looking at non-obese T2D's.

They have a "personal fat threshold" concept - if you go over it, then you risk getting T2D, but it's not really tied to BMI - different for everybody, some people can exceed it even if "normal" weight etc. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/88...26.722850792.1574585099-1067340232.1574585099

 

[Martin9]

@Martin9 Good luck with your latest HbA1c result. x

Thanks @lizk ..

 

[karloc]

Welcome to the club that no one want to join.
Sounds like you are tackling your issues head on, hope it goes well for you - Good luck 🙂
I joined the club in September so it's still early days for me. I had much more weight to loose with BMI of 33.
But I massive part of my diet was bad carbs - probably half my daily calorie intake was from glorious sugar, mmm how I miss thee!
I brought my BGs (Blood Glucose) down to 4s and 5s in just over a week by going very low carbs - about 10-20g carbs a day and stopped metformin after 4 days because of my BG levels.
I have since kept my carbs very low, with a couple of days with a few extra carbs but still on the low side and the peek BG level I have hit is 6.0.
My plan is to keep my BG levels lower than 'normal', loose weight and increase my fitness levels. My hope is this will reduce my insulin resistance and turn my fat liver into a skinny liver.
I do think BMI only gives an 'indication' and is a pretty bad method of working out if we are overweight and it's so easy to convince ourselves that a particular number is OK but most of us probably know the real truth if we face up to it 😱.
Dropping my BGs has made me feel 100% better and I am no longer suffering with fatigue - we are strange beings when taking away easy fuel/energy from my body have given me so much more energy .

Best of luck with your battle 🙂, you can do it!

 

[lizk]

@karloc Thank you so much for your reply. I have found exactly the same as you, that since I cut out sugar, eat less and fast for 18 hours a day I have more energy and feel so much better. My skin has improved. I was starting to get hot, red flushed appearance from time to time and I think my body was screaming it out to me, but being 33 I was complacent. Not any more! Your bg improvements are incredible! Well done to you! Fingers crossed I can join your club.

 

[lizk]

@Eddy Edson Thank you so much for those links. Going to read them now. Liz

 

[Drummer]

Hi, thanks for your reply. From what I’ve read weight loss is a key factor in potentially ‘reversing’ type II diabetes. Alongside of course adjusting my diet and when I’m eating to instantly keep my blood sugar levels within normal ranges, my understanding is that weight loss is shown to help increase sensitivity to insulin. I’ve done some post meal readings 2 hours after eating too and they’ve been going in the right direction. Just wondering if losing weight from a BMI of 26 had been done by anyone and had helped them.

Not really - it is the other way round. Eating low carb reduces the outflow of insulin, the metabolism gets back into balance and there is an increase in energy levels, normality becomes - normal - body fat reduces, muscles grow - I am so much stronger now than at diagnosis. I have even gone back to working with knitting machines as I can pick them up easily again. My weight has not changed much after the first six months, but I can now wear a size M rather than the XXL I wore on a high carb low fat diet to reduce cholesterol - which didn't.
I can totally relate to the flushed appearance as I had various tests to try to find the problem - never tested my blood glucose though.
My skin is much softer now, pores clearer too, and I am much paler - no longer resemble a boiled lobster at the slightest exertion.

 

[karloc]

The more I read the more I am convinced its far too complex to say its the excess fat (especially on your organs) driving it or it's the the insulin levels that drive it.
It is all inter-related so all important.
I think for most people in our situation it's the breaking of our bad life choices which is the important part and some of us (me included) found focusing on my BG levels and dropping carbs has been a good way to getting better, along with the fat loss that I also need and am doing. Others on here have turned things around through fat loss being the main goal rather than the low carbs being highest priority. Also I was suffering from a number of symptoms of having way to much sugar pushed into every part of my body so dropping BGs for me gave me very fast relief to these.

We are all individuals and need to find what works well for ourselves. It's always interesting looking are peoples individual stories to give ideas, although I am sure we read some thinking - "wow I could never do that!" 🙂

 

[Ralph-YK]

I don't quite get the connection to weight - diabetes is all about blood glucose.

@Northerner (if they don't mind me quoting them) posted this recently, in relation to Insulin Resistance

Weight loss (if necessary) and exercise helps to overcome the resistance and make the insulin more efficient, allowing the body to use more of the glucose as energy and blood glucose levels do not climb as high.

 

[Ralph-YK]

The more I read the more I am convinced its far too complex to say its the excess fat (especially on your organs) driving it or it's the the insulin levels that drive it.

Can be a bit complex.

It is all inter-related so all important.

Absolutely.

Some of the difficulties in understanding is the definitions, and what see the condition as being.

I see T2 like this (basic):
Insulin allows our bodies to use the glucose in our bodies.
Insulin resistance means we can't use the insulin we have;
so our bodies can't use glucose, which means it rises;
our bodies spots it's not getting the glucose we need, even though it's there in our blood stream, so it inreases insulin.

Managing the carbs can help control the BG levels, avoiding spike or longer term rises through the day. As in not putting a lot in to start with.
Reducing insulin resistance allows our body to use the insulin, so it can have a chance of using and controlling the BG itself.

Note: those with reduced/no insulin production are a different matter.

 

[Ralph-YK]

Welcome to the forum Liz, from a fellow T2.

 

[lizk]

@Northerner (if they don't mind me quoting them) posted this recently, in relation to Insulin Resistance

Thanks for that @Ralph-YK that was my understanding.

 

[lizk]

Welcome to the forum Liz, from a fellow T2.

Thank you!