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Uzes3

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Relationship to Diabetes
Type 1
Hi, thanks for the welcome. I'm a 58 year old type 1 diabetic, have been for 30 years. I manage very well, although I test more than most. I'm a plasterer by trade and I'm very fit and healthy. In this current situation, regarding covid, I am reluctant to have the jab, as I've heard horror stories about reactions, ( blood clots, embolisms, heart problems and infertility in the young)
As I think it's only a matter of time before the NHS refuses to provide ' non jabbed people' with insulin, I'm searching for an alternative way of obtaining it at a reasonable price. (Bearing in mind I've paid tax and national insurance for 43 years and not about to stop any time soon). If anyone has any ideas (other than having the jab) I'd be interested to know. Thanks
 
Government websites. Check it out. And that's what they are publishing
 
@Uzes3 . I have searched and searched for this with no joy .can you pleas provide a link.
Tbh I can’t see the nhs doing anything like this at all
 
Hi and welcome

Most of those risks you list are much more likely if you were to get Covid than with the vaccine and being fit and healthy will not stop you getting Covid, so I would challenge your logic, but everyone has the right to make up their own mind about the vaccine. I think most of the active members of this forum have been very grateful to get jabbed even if it has appeared to cause some of us BG upheaval.
I cannot see how the government or NHS could deny insulin to those unvaccinated and I too believe your concerns are totally unfounded and think you may have misinterpreted something you have read, but would be interested to read whatever link you can provide. I am sure Diabetes UK would be up in arms about any such suggestion and be fighting for our rights and we would have heard about it, so I think you are way off the page with this.
 
Another thing is , how many people report that they have little or no problems with the vaccines .
Most people imo don't normally report good experiences but are mire than happy to share the bad ones.

I’ve had 2 AZ jabs
I felt a bit off colour for a few days, BGs unaffected after the first. With the second one I felt a bit off colour for a day and it did affect my BGs a bit.
The being off colour means your immune system is working well .

My 95 yr old ill father , amongst other things has a long term Subdural haematoma and is prone to blood clots in his legs m he’s had the two jabs and just like me had no problems other than feeling a bit off colour.
Due to our various health problems we were glad to h@ve the jabs as I don’t think either of us would survive even a mild dose of this virus.
 
It is also important to remember that there are risks associated with everything in life and you have to get it in perspective. People happily book a holiday abroad (when they are/were able 🙄 ) and don't give a thought to the risks of DVT even though it is higher than the vaccine risk and that holiday is a luxury that they are paying for not something which is provided free and will potentially save their life. We all get in our cars and drive without worrying about the risk of having an accident that day, but the risk will be higher than having the vaccine.

It is very easy to get this stuff out of perspective but I think about a friend who is suffering long Covid and he is still unable to work 7 months after contracting it and at times displays symptoms like dementia as well as being physically unable to do much. He was a fit active mid 50s guy with no health conditions. He ate well and ran regularly and had a physical outdoor practical job.... Landscape gardener. He now struggles to walk any distance or string words together some days. He didn't even seem to have the virus that bad.... not hospitalized or anything... until after he started recovering and then had an episode similar to a stroke and was left in this state. They did scans and didn't find any evidence of a stroke but he is left with very significant and frustrating limitations.
 
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As I think it's only a matter of time before the NHS refuses to provide ' non jabbed people' with insulin, I'm searching for an alternative way of obtaining it at a reasonable price. (Bearing in mind I've paid tax and national insurance for 43 years and not about to stop any time soon). If anyone has any ideas (other than having the jab) I'd be interested to know. Thanks

The government aren’t planning to do that. Where did you read that they were?? They’ve stipulated that a very small number of people must have the vaccination but they haven’t threatened those people with withdrawal of NHS care or medicines.

Covid causes blood clots too and you’re much mor likely to get a blood clot from Covid.
 
Pretty much all drugs have potential side effects.
Paracetamol can cause liver problems, ibruprofen can cause stomach ulcers, NovoRapid can cause allergic reaction to the skin.
When we are ill, we (or our doctors) do a risk analysis and decide the risk of these potential side effects is low compared to the value we get from taking the medication and treating our headache, inflammation and diabetes.

Vaccines are another medication that have some potential side effects and we need to take a risk analysis to decide if we are willing to risk those side effects. The analysis we need to make is harder because we are not ill.
The same risk analysis must be made when women take the pill. Is the low risk of blood clots worse than the high risk of unwanted pregnancy?

We all have different risk tolerances and make different calculations. Many of us have decided that the risk of covid to ourselves and those around us (some who may not be able to take the vaccine because the risk of the side effects is greater to them) is worth risking the potential side effects of the vaccine. Some people with diabetes have experienced higher blood sugars, some lower and some none at all, some have experienced flu-like symptoms, some have not. But very very very very few have suffered from blood clots, etc.

The choice is yours but I have read nothing about withholding medication which is necessary to keep us alive if we decide the risk of side effects from the vaccine is too great for us to take.

The NHS does not withhold drugs for liver disease from people who drink alcohol or refuse to treat malaria because someone chose to travel to a known malaria risk country or refuse to treat a workaholic CEO of a successful company when they have a heart attack. These are all life choices, like the choice whether to have a vaccination or not.
 
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A few minor side effects from the jab if any, would pale into insignificance against the consequences of getting COVID. I personally would be less than happy to have a contractor in my house if they were unvaccinated. You may consider it your personal choice but I consider it my choice to choose who I would have in the house.
 
In this current situation, regarding covid, I am reluctant to have the jab, as I've heard horror stories about reactions, ( blood clots, embolisms, heart problems and infertility in the young)
On a practical level, we're both in the wrong age group for those side effects to be a significant risk! (The rare blood clot+low platelet count combination is mostly in young women, the inflamed heart problems are mostly in young men. And those are in different vaccines, so you can only be at risk from one of them presuming both doses are the same. The more general blood clots and things are also seen in people who get covid; no reason to think the vaccines are worse.)

I've not heard of any reports of infertility. (There are ongoing trials looking at effects on fertility but I don't think anyone's expecting them to find anything.)

Even if the vaccines were quite a bit more risky I suspect they'd still be a win compared to the risks of contracting and suffering effects from the virus. If you had to bet on long term effects, this new virus seems much more likely to produce them than a vaccine (vaccines very rarely produce long term side effects, whereas infections are known to, sometimes).
 
The NHS are not going to deny medical treatment to unvaccinated people.
I'm really not sure why you would be scared of this.

I understand vaccine hesitancy but I'm not sure why you are scared of the vaccine but not scared of catching covid. You are much more likely to catch covid and it's much more likely to kill you than any of the vaccines out there. How are you able to turn fear on and off like that?
 
I am reluctant to have the jab, as I've heard horror stories about reactions, ( blood clots, embolisms, heart problems and infertility in the young)
As I think it's only a matter of time before the NHS refuses to provide ' non jabbed people' with insulin…

I am not sure if you heard them too, but I heard a lot of horror stories about the reactions of people who caught Covid. Even those who had no at the time symptoms have had health problems. And loads of them died.

Anyway, the very worst most despised criminals, the sort who do cruel things to children with no remorse, are not denied medial treatment necessary to keep them alive. Why do you think you will be any worse?

With all due respect, you are thinking too highly of yourself if you think the government literally want to kill you. Not that I think much of the government, but if they were to start imposing death sentences, there will be a lot more people ahead of you and other unvaccinated people on the list.

At worst there may end up being a two-tier society where people who refuse to be vaccinated are denied access to cinemas etc. But for a long time that has often been the case for the minority of people with disabilities, and that was due to no choice of their own.

The vast majority of people do support being vaccinated, not just for themselves but for those with whom they come into contact, and to stop the spread of disease more widely. So if they do not feel safe being around people who could be carry a fatal disease, preventing you from entering the same spaces as them, that is their choice to make. Every bit as much as it is your choice to make to not be vaccinated. But no one is going to kill you for it.

That all said, if you really are refusing to listen to anyone who disagrees with your position and to consider it from a different perspective, then the answer is simply that you do not have to use the N.H.S. to get healthcare in the U.K. Everything you can get for free you can also get by paying money.

Private clinics also offer G.P. services, and their doctors can also issue prescriptions. Unlike an N.H.S. prescription those are not free (nor subsidised, as for most non-diabetics in England). You have to cover the cost of the medication as well as the fees for having the prescription issued (to the doctor) and dispensed (to the pharmacist).

For insulin it is around £40 (rapid acting) and £60 (long-acting) for a pack of five pens or cartridges, before fees. The doctors are also still professionals and will not keep issuing prescriptions without review, so you would also need to budget for regular consultation fees too.

That is the only way to legally get insulin in the U.K. without using the N.H.S. Otherwise you need to know some dodgy people or use dodgy web sites. But if you are worried about the side-effects of the Covid vaccines, which are no worse than for any other medication, then you would not want to read the horror stories of people who bought unregulated and quite possibly fake drugs.
 
With all due respect, you are thinking too highly of yourself if you think the government literally want to kill you. Not that I think much of the government, but if they were to start imposing death sentences, there will be a lot more people ahead of you and other unvaccinated people on the list.
Yes, I agree with that. Unvaccinated insulin-dependent diabetics just don't matter enough for the NHS/government to care enough to withdraw insulin. That would be such an obviously insane act that it would be hugely costly in terms of popularity, and I don't see any benefit.
 
Thanks for all this information, I've found it very helpful. I wish everyone well.
 
Thanks for all this information, I've found it very helpful. I wish everyone well.

Welcome to the forum @Uzes3 🙂

Hope you are able to put your fears to rest about insulin being witheld.

I‘ve had T1 for 30 years too, and had 2x AZ vaccines with hardly any apparent effects apart from a very slightly sore arm.

All the best for your decision making.
 
Every vaccine can have side affects it’s a calculated risk . I was ill after my first injection but who knows what would have happened if I’d caught COVID . For me I considered the vaccine worth the risk . I can’t see the NHS not prescribing insulin if someone needs it , it’s hardly a non essential drug
 
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